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Old
08-05-2012, 06:45 PM
  #126
Al Lagoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
Can we ever get past the "Clutter has a good shot" thing?

He could have a good shot if: He shortened his stick, he learned to shoot somewhere other than glove high every time and he had some higher hockey IQ to be in the right place to receive passes - he thinks he's going to score on every random rush, and doesn't allow himself to be setup.

He's a grinder, if he was more than a grinder, he would've lit it up when he was pushed into a top-6 role last season. This is the same argument I've got with Seto. He had every chance to be a go-to guy on the team, and wasn't at all impressive to me (yeah, he was injured, whatever).
You are short-changing the guy. 4th on the Wild in goals last season, 2nd the year before. Not bad for a guy who is busy leading the league in hits, or nearly so.

Given that he is not invited to post season tournaments and has plenty of off-season in which to recover, and is only 24, I think he's a long-term keeper. He plays 70+ games a year and fills a great niche on the 3rd line.

I'd keep him at twice his current salary.

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Old
08-05-2012, 08:10 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Al Lagoon View Post
You are short-changing the guy. 4th on the Wild in goals last season, 2nd the year before. Not bad for a guy who is busy leading the league in hits, or nearly so.

Given that he is not invited to post season tournaments and has plenty of off-season in which to recover, and is only 24, I think he's a long-term keeper. He plays 70+ games a year and fills a great niche on the 3rd line.

I'd keep him at twice his current salary.
And you are likely in a severe minority there. Being towards the top of this team's goal scoring isn't saying anything worth mention, we've been a TERRIBLE team in regards to goalscoring for a long while now, being towards the top of that particular pile of garbage is nothing to hang your hat on.

I've got doubts that his body can handle his style of play for any more than a couple more years, and he doesn't bring enough to the table otherwise to make me want to keep him around.

With the people we've got coming to this team in the very near future, he will see his role with us diminish, his ice time will not be what it had been in years past. That means that his stats will drop, which means his value will drop. This is a clear case of selling high on someone who is very likely replaceable.

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Old
08-05-2012, 10:46 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
I don't think I'd have that many greater than's, personally... Cullen is a 2nd/3rd tweener (depending on the team), and Clutterbuck is a bottom-6 RW. Cullen is more versatile, but he's not all that much better. They both belong on the 3rd line if you've got a good team.

In all reality, I don't like either of them for our top-6, and they both make the most sense as our 3rd line RW at this point. The real point is, that Clutterbuck has trade value and Cullen basically can't be traded.

Let Cullen take the 3rd line RW spot and play out his contract, trade Clutter for a pick (and a contract spot) and then have that 3rd line RW spot open for a prospect when Cullen's contract is up.
Fletcher said Cullen will be playing LW this year most likely, not RW.
If Bouchard is out he sees Cullen as the Wild's 2nd line LW.

So please... stop putting Cullen on the RW already!

Parise-Koivu-Heatley
Cullen/Bouchard-Granlund-Setoguchi
Cullen/Mitchell-Brodziak-Clutterbuck
Mitchell-Konopka-Powe
Kassian

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08-05-2012, 10:46 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
And you are likely in a severe minority there. Being towards the top of this team's goal scoring isn't saying anything worth mention, we've been a TERRIBLE team in regards to goalscoring for a long while now, being towards the top of that particular pile of garbage is nothing to hang your hat on.

I've got doubts that his body can handle his style of play for any more than a couple more years, and he doesn't bring enough to the table otherwise to make me want to keep him around.

With the people we've got coming to this team in the very near future, he will see his role with us diminish, his ice time will not be what it had been in years past. That means that his stats will drop, which means his value will drop. This is a clear case of selling high on someone who is very likely replaceable.
Nonetheless, I'm talking about a real player with real results. Dump on his achievements all you want, but until somebody steps up and takes his place, you're wishing on dreams.

He's played 70+ games the last 4 years. He's going to wear down? How? By having an entire summer to rest and recuperate? The guy is 24, hardly a has-been on his last legs.

I'd surely trade him if the return was worthy, but you are suggesting he is garbage, which I staunchly disagree with.

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Old
08-05-2012, 10:52 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Fletcher said Cullen will be playing LW this year most likely, not RW.
If Bouchard is out he sees Cullen as the Wild's 2nd line LW.

So please... stop putting Cullen on the RW already!

Parise-Koivu-Heatley
Cullen/Bouchard-Granlund-Setoguchi
Cullen/Mitchell-Brodziak-Clutterbuck
Mitchell-Konopka-Powe
Kassian
Where did you see/hear the "Cullen on the left wing" quote? I figured Cullen would be in the center and Brodziak would be moved back to the wing. That would maximize the faceoff potential of that line (Cullen was our best regular faceoff guy at 53.2% and Brodziak was our worst at 49.5%) and Brodziak more recently played wing if I recall correctly.

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Old
08-05-2012, 10:56 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Where did you see/hear the "Cullen on the left wing" quote? I figured Cullen would be in the center and Brodziak would be moved back to the wing. That would maximize the faceoff potential of that line (Cullen was our best regular faceoff guy at 53.2% and Brodziak was our worst at 49.5%) and Brodziak more recently played wing if I recall correctly.
It was an interview back in June shortly after the Granlund signing. He was asked first where he envisions Granlund fitting into the lineup, and he said he will start as the team's second line center. The follow up question was where he envisioned Cullen moving to and he said 2nd line LW. (Bouchard's concussion was much more in the air then remember).

Maybe, if Bouchard is healthy, he does play 3rd line center and Brodziak moves to the wing... that is a legit option yes.

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Old
08-05-2012, 10:58 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Where did you see/hear the "Cullen on the left wing" quote? I figured Cullen would be in the center and Brodziak would be moved back to the wing. That would maximize the faceoff potential of that line (Cullen was our best regular faceoff guy at 53.2% and Brodziak was our worst at 49.5%) and Brodziak more recently played wing if I recall correctly.
Some combination of Russo's depth chart (although if I remember correctly that part was more of a guess) and Yeo saying he wants to start camp with Granlund as the second line center.

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Old
08-05-2012, 11:01 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
Some combination of Russo's depth chart (although if I remember correctly that part was more of a guess) and Yeo saying he wants to start camp with Granlund as the second line center.
It was actually Fletcher talking in a video interview.

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Old
08-05-2012, 11:07 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
It was actually Fletcher talking in a video interview.
Yeo has said the same too.

Quote:
Mikael Granlund is expected to end up centering the second line for the Minnesota Wild this coming season, but the organization's top prospect could see some time at wing as well.

"We still don't have a set plan on that yet," coach Mike Yeo told "Judd & Phunn" last week on 1500 ESPN. "I know that first day of camp he will be starting at center. But having said that, there's a good chance that he may bounce around during the course of the season next year.

"So are we better to give him an opportunity to play a little bit of both? I don't know. But I do know from day one of training camp next year I want to give him a chance at center. He's playing center (at the recently completed prospects camp).

"I think he looks really good there, especially when he's carrying the puck through the middle of the ice. On the big ice, he looks really good. His ability to distribute the puck to either side. To get the puck to a guy like Devin Setoguchi or Matt Cullen or Pierre-Marc Bouchard and give them an opportunity to create something off that is really intriguing.

"I also think it gives him the best chance to succeed. (Center is) his natural position, he's used to playing on the bigger ice surface so get him in little bit more of an open ice situation and I think it gives him his best opportunity.

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Old
08-05-2012, 11:08 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Al Lagoon View Post
Nonetheless, I'm talking about a real player with real results. Dump on his achievements all you want, but until somebody steps up and takes his place, you're wishing on dreams.

He's played 70+ games the last 4 years. He's going to wear down? How? By having an entire summer to rest and recuperate? The guy is 24, hardly a has-been on his last legs.

I'd surely trade him if the return was worthy, but you are suggesting he is garbage, which I staunchly disagree with.
And now you're putting words in my mouth.

He is what he is, someone who belongs on the 3rd line. We've got at least 1 or 2 prospects that should replace him within the year (Bulmer and Zucker in my eyes, maybe Larsson depending on where they envision him positionally).

If you could get a first round pick for a 3rd liner, and you pass it up because he's a "fan favorite" who was one of the top goal scorers on the worst scoring team since the lockout... That's really, REALLY poor asset management to me. Especially if Clutterbuck thinks he's worth anywhere near 3 million a year...

Look, I don't hate the guy, I'm just not infatuated with him in any way. He plays a role on this team that is replaceable, and he's a guy who's trade value will quite likely never be higher than it is right now.

Trade him out East, get a 1st round pick likely in the 20's and move on.

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Old
08-05-2012, 11:11 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
Yeo has said the same too.
All except for the "I see Cullen as the 2nd line LW" part which is what Fletcher said and I was pointing out in the first place.

Cullen = LW or Center is the important piece of info here...

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Old
08-05-2012, 11:12 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
All except for the "I see Cullen as the 2nd line LW" part which is what Fletcher said and I was pointing out in the first place.
Quiet you.

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Old
08-05-2012, 11:14 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
And now you're putting words in my mouth.

He is what he is, someone who belongs on the 3rd line. We've got at least 1 or 2 prospects that should replace him within the year (Bulmer and Zucker in my eyes, maybe Larsson depending on where they envision him positionally).

If you could get a first round pick for a 3rd liner, and you pass it up because he's a "fan favorite" who was one of the top goal scorers on the worst scoring team since the lockout... That's really, REALLY poor asset management to me. Especially if Clutterbuck thinks he's worth anywhere near 3 million a year...

Look, I don't hate the guy, I'm just not infatuated with him in any way. He plays a role on this team that is replaceable, and he's a guy who's trade value will quite likely never be higher than it is right now.

Trade him out East, get a 1st round pick likely in the 20's and move on.
The "trade Clutterbuck" crowd needs to get over the rebuilding mindset. We're no longer in that desperate position where we need to trade everyone to squeeze the tiniest bit of value out every asset. It's not poor asset management to keep quality players on your team to help your team. That's the place we're at now, not the selling position where we need more picks. We don't need any more picks at this point. We have too many high end prospects, and not enough spots for them.

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08-05-2012, 11:15 PM
  #139
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Quiet you.

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Old
08-05-2012, 11:16 PM
  #140
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If we Trade Clutterbuck, it won't be for a draft pick! It would be in a package to shore up our defense for a playoff run!

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08-05-2012, 11:23 PM
  #141
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Quiet you.
On the bright side.... isn't it great to see both the GM and head coach are pretty much on the same page about how/where players fit in?

Remember the DR days, where he'd bring in a player, he'd be asked where he thinks the player will be in the lineup, and he couldn't give an answer because he and Lemaire were apparently working off of two different roster sheets all the time!

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08-05-2012, 11:28 PM
  #142
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Remember the DR days, where he'd bring in a player, he'd be asked where he thinks the player will be in the lineup, and he couldn't give an answer because he and Lemaire were apparently working off of two different roster sheets all the time!
No.....

Years of intense pyscho-therapy has helped me to forget......

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Old
08-06-2012, 01:12 AM
  #143
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No.....

Years of intense pyscho-therapy has helped me to forget......
Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it!

Take the bad with the good, it makes the good that much better!

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08-06-2012, 11:32 AM
  #144
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Honestly, what available Dman would make sense for the Wild? Especially one that costs Clutterbuck + Falk/Prosser/Stoner/Kampfer?

We don't want to take back a huge contract.

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08-06-2012, 02:59 PM
  #145
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Honestly, what available Dman would make sense for the Wild? Especially one that costs Clutterbuck + Falk/Prosser/Stoner/Kampfer?

We don't want to take back a huge contract.
Maybe trade Clutter and Falk/Prosser/Stoner/Kampfer for pick and then sign Hannan or Jurcina or Kubina for 2 years?

I would love Clutter in Philly´s third or fourth line, maybe 2nd rounder for him?

But with trade, there is :

Boston: McQuaid

Pens : Martin

San Jose: Murray

Montreal: Emelin

Buffalo: Sekera

Columbus: Nikitin, Moore

Chicago: Hjalmarson

Kings: Voynov Martinez

But why not we make a good package like Clutter+Falk/Prosser/Stoner/Kampfer+prospect/pick for defender+wing , i mean something like our package for Murray+Clowe from San Jose or Stewart+defender or from Kings Clifford+Martinez+Voynov. Maybe our package doesnt be enough...

Just thinking ... I think nothing will not happen before season start.. But the idea to do trade must be make the team better now, not future.. We need more power to our defense and top6 so if i were gm i would be targeting those assets.

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08-06-2012, 03:02 PM
  #146
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So please... stop putting Cullen on the RW already!
As long as we can all agree to stop putting Bouchard in a LW spot...

I would like to see things mixed and matched far more than everyone else, it seems. With that being said...

Parise - Koivu - Granlund/Bouchard
Heatley - Brodziak/Granlund - Bouchard/Setoguchi
Clutterbuck/Cullen - Cullen/Brodziak - Setoguchi/Mitchell
Powe - Konopka - Mitchell
Kassian

The lines that I would like to see stick?

Parise - Koivu - Bouchard
Heatley - Granlund - Setoguchi
Clutterbuck - Cullen - Brodziak
Powe - Konopka - Mitchell/Kassian

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Old
08-06-2012, 03:51 PM
  #147
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Maybe trade Clutter and Falk/Prosser/Stoner/Kampfer for pick and then sign Hannan or Jurcina or Kubina for 2 years?

I would love Clutter in Philly´s third or fourth line, maybe 2nd rounder for him?

But with trade, there is :

Boston: McQuaid

Pens : Martin

San Jose: Murray

Montreal: Emelin

Buffalo: Sekera

Columbus: Nikitin, Moore

Chicago: Hjalmarson

Kings: Voynov Martinez

But why not we make a good package like Clutter+Falk/Prosser/Stoner/Kampfer+prospect/pick for defender+wing , i mean something like our package for Murray+Clowe from San Jose or Stewart+defender or from Kings Clifford+Martinez+Voynov. Maybe our package doesnt be enough...

Just thinking ... I think nothing will not happen before season start.. But the idea to do trade must be make the team better now, not future.. We need more power to our defense and top6 so if i were gm i would be targeting those assets.
Not really excited about any of those guys on the list though.

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08-06-2012, 03:59 PM
  #148
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Yeah most strike me as not an upgrade and a couple we aren't giving up enough.

Just sit tight this year, we'll make a move at the deadline, and then we'll really go after it next year.

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08-06-2012, 04:42 PM
  #149
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It would be nice to bring a legit top-2 guy, but honestly that guy is going to cost us Brodin+, and I really, really don't want to trade away Brodin. Maybe Scandella+ or Dumba+ gets you there, but maybe not.

As for just a top-4 guy, just not sure anybody we'd bring in would be a clear upgrade over an improving Spurgeon, Scandella, or Brodin. Or even Stoner or Falk if one of those guys can step into a top-4 role.

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08-07-2012, 11:25 PM
  #150
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It would be nice to bring a legit top-2 guy, but honestly that guy is going to cost us Brodin+, and I really, really don't want to trade away Brodin. Maybe Scandella+ or Dumba+ gets you there, but maybe not.

As for just a top-4 guy, just not sure anybody we'd bring in would be a clear upgrade over an improving Spurgeon, Scandella, or Brodin. Or even Stoner or Falk if one of those guys can step into a top-4 role.
Exactly. I know this boring time in the off-season makes it hard, but there is no sense moving pieces before we know what we have. This year is especially exciting because we get our first look at Brodin playing against NHL competition in an NHL rink. We get to see where Spurgeon really fits in playing with an absolute stud in Suter. We also get to see Scandella come into a season with some much needed experience. We have to see how players have grown, how pieces fit together, and how injuries shake out before we can even begin to think about trading anyone.

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