HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

red wings needs defense and forwards

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-06-2012, 12:36 AM
  #76
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I quite clearly said earlier that in a league where Keith Yandle is considered a good top pairing defender, I was completely OK with Kronwall/Smith as our top pairing for the next several years.

Not my problem you can't read.
I would take him over smith .He is a smooth skating PMD abeit not at the calibre of elite but very good

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:38 AM
  #77
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Detroit stays in the playoff picture because of their forwards but they will fall fast if one of their big two goes down ,that defense looks very leaky and has too many question marks for my liking.The goaltending looks solid and iam interested to see if gustafson can recover his game
Well tell me how warm and fuzzy do you feel about any team if they lose their best two forwards?

By the way they have been far from healthy in the post-season the last two years. That is true of a lot of teams but interestingly rarely the Stanley Cup winner. Luck is a part of the equation.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:41 AM
  #78
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
I would take him over smith .He is a smooth skating PMD abeit not at the calibre of elite but very good
Right now he is better but Yandle doesn't answer really any of the big team concerns. He is a better passing Kronwall without any sandpaper. The guy cannot kill penalties, doesn't hit a thing and is below average in his own zone. The Wings have a ton of offensive d-man Kronwall, Quincey, and Smith. Even White and Kindl are PMD guys really. For what it would cost I am not overly interested in Yandle. There is a reason OEL has passed him this quickly, he is not a true #1 in my opinion. He cannot play in all situations and he will not shut down a top line. Buyer beware as far as I am concerned.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:47 AM
  #79
Wolverine Wings
#thankyoubasedgod
 
Wolverine Wings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 898
vCash: 500
Out of the current Wings prospect pool, as realistically as possible I predict there will be....

1 Top Pair D(Smith)
1 Middle Pair D
2 Bottom Pair D
1 1st Line Center(Jarnkrok)
3 Top Six
2 Bottom Six
1 Goalie (Mrazek)

That make the NHL. On any team. I even made a 1-2-1-2-1 pattern!

Moving on, there only needs to be 3 or so players that pan out in a big way to make a huge difference on a franchise. If only Smith, Jarnkrok and one other prove to be those big-time players that meet or exceed expectations, then that is all anyone can ask for. Underachievement should be expected going in with this sorta thing, the trick is finding which guys will beat the odds.

Wolverine Wings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:47 AM
  #80
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,272
vCash: 500
I could always see Shawn Horcoff and Ales Hemsky being excellent as Red Wings.

I know it holds no merit they just seem like they would fit in Detroit.

Mr Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:48 AM
  #81
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,746
vCash: 500
As of now it would seem Pittsburgh is headed for a Top Six of something along the lines up Crosby/Malkin/Neal/Kunitz/Dupuis/ with Cooke or Kennedy in as the sixth. (Barring a Doan Signing)

Detroit's looking at Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen/Filppula/Samuelsson and Nyquist or Bertuzzi.

Leaves Pittsburgh with a bottom half of Sutter, Adams, Vitale, Jeffery, MacIntrye/Glass, Cooke/Kennedy, and Tangradi (Assume he gets signed)

Meanwhile, Detroit has Helm, Cleary, Eaves, Miller, TooToo/Brunner/Emmerton/Mursak, Bertuzzi/Nyquist, and Abdelkader. (Assuming he gets signed)

I'd take Detroit's.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:53 AM
  #82
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
As of now it would seem Pittsburgh is headed for a Top Six of something along the lines up Crosby/Malkin/Neal/Kunitz/Dupuis/ with Cooke or Kennedy in as the sixth. (Barring a Doan Signing)

Detroit's looking at Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen/Filppula/Samuelsson and Nyquist or Bertuzzi.

Leaves Pittsburgh with a bottom half of Sutter, Adams, Vitale, Jeffery, MacIntrye/Glass, Cooke/Kennedy, and Tangradi (Assume he gets signed)

Meanwhile, Detroit has Helm, Cleary, Eaves, Miller, TooToo/Brunner/Emmerton/Mursak, Bertuzzi/Nyquist, and Abdelkader. (Assuming he gets signed)

I'd take Detroit's.
Until Helm takes the next step the best of that bottom six group is Sutter. I still think the Wings as a group are stonger and certainly the fourth line would have a big advantage. But I think it is fair to state Sutter and Kennedy/Cooke are very good third line players.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:57 AM
  #83
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
I could always see Shawn Horcoff and Ales Hemsky being excellent as Red Wings.

I know it holds no merit they just seem like they would fit in Detroit.
I have liked the idea of Hemsky for sometime, but most Wings fans don't.

Horcoff... A big no thank you and I say that even before looking at that God awful contract.

One of the only things that scared me about the Renney hiring is he would somehow talk the Wings into Horcoff at some point while he is on the staff. All I can hope is when they talk about him being a players coach that somehow those two didn't get along, which I doubt since he is captain up there.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 12:58 AM
  #84
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
I could always see Shawn Horcoff and Ales Hemsky being excellent as Red Wings.

I know it holds no merit they just seem like they would fit in Detroit.
Holland has a hard on for Hemsky and has been rumored to be interested in him for the last few years.

Personally, if he can get him without giving up anything of importance, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Until Helm takes the next step the best of that bottom six group is Sutter. I still think the Wings as a group are stonger and certainly the fourth line would have a big advantage. But I think it is fair to state Sutter and Kennedy/Cooke are very good third line players.
I think they both have really good third lines. (Detroit wins the 4th line IMO)

As for Helm vs. Sutter. Going by their stats last season, Helm wins, AINEC. Had six points less, sure, but in 14 less games, playing three minutes less per game. Was more physical than Sutter and better on the draw. Sutter was better at taking the puck away.

It's not like any GM would be crying himself to sleep that they got one and not the other, but I do believe Helm is better.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:02 AM
  #85
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I think they both have really good third lines. (Detroit wins the 4th line IMO)

As for Helm vs. Sutter. Going by their stats last season, Helm wins, AINEC. Had six points less, sure, but in 14 less games, playing three minutes less per game. Was more physical than Sutter and better on the draw. Sutter was better at taking the puck away.

It's not like any GM would be crying himself to sleep that they got one and not the other, but I do believe Helm is better.
Sutter always plays the toughest lines and has terrible zone starting position. Helm needs to start taking one of the top 6 lines like Draper did. I like Helm a lot but Sutter is better than him right now, stats don't tell the whole story there. I think Helm will continue to get better and he does eat up the other teams third line when it is handed to him. I just am hoping for more in the future, he is vital to the Wings success.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:03 AM
  #86
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Which is what the premise of your argument has been all night. "Detroit needs to start rebuilding." They have good prospects. "No, those prospects aren't that great." Here's statistic one and statistic two. "Those stats mean nothing, it's not a guarantee".
You've already made your mind up as to what you think, that much is for sure...

But just for the sake of pointing it out, Smith is FAR more physical than Yandle, it'd be difficult to turn the puck over as much as Yandle does, he'd only need 9 seconds of penalty killing per game to match Yandle, and if you take the rate Smith was scoring at and apply it to the amount of time on ice Yandle got, he'd be eclipsing 60 points...

Obviously that's a small sample size, but Smith is gonna be a good offensive defender like Yandle is. Yandle sucks at defense, and Smith's not the greatest, but he certainly has the physical edge over Yandle, if nothing else.
But you throw them out like it is a guarantee,stats are great when the post those types at the NHL level until they do they are just an indicator of what a drafted NHL prospect might do .Take a player like Shawn van allen he was a huge scorer in junior and at the ahl level ,couldnt skate becomes a grinder at the nhl level and stays up that way.If Jarnkrok who we all know can skate and has crazy skill cant cut it at the nhl level in the top 6 do you think he has the ability to play a bottom 6 role??

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:08 AM
  #87
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
But you throw them out like it is a guarantee,stats are great when the post those types at the NHL level until they do they are just an indicator of what a drafted NHL prospect might do .Take a player like Shawn van allen he was a huge scorer in junior and at the ahl level ,couldnt skate becomes a grinder at the nhl level and stays up that way.If Jarnkrok who we all know can skate and has crazy skill cant cut it at the nhl level in the top 6 do you think he has the ability to play a bottom 6 role??
There comes a point where stats don't tell the whole story, which I freely admit. I also already admitted the Wings' prospects who have problems, mainly Pulkkinen.

When Hakan (That bum that found Datsyuk and Zetterberg) says Jarnkrok will never need to play a game in the AHL, you get a pretty good idea of his bust chances.

And for the record, I suspect that even though Hakan claims Jarnkrok doesn't need to play in the AHL, he probably still will due to roster space.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:11 AM
  #88
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
But you throw them out like it is a guarantee,stats are great when the post those types at the NHL level until they do they are just an indicator of what a drafted NHL prospect might do .Take a player like Shawn van allen he was a huge scorer in junior and at the ahl level ,couldnt skate becomes a grinder at the nhl level and stays up that way.If Jarnkrok who we all know can skate and has crazy skill cant cut it at the nhl level in the top 6 do you think he has the ability to play a bottom 6 role??
I am not all that concerned about Jarnkrok cracking the top 6. He is already winning mens leagues on a first line and making the World Championship cuts for Sweden. He won't spend any time in the AHL, he is a poor mans Backstrom when I have watched him play in Sweden. I really do mean that in a nice way, the Z comparisons are made because of the Wings and their very similar development. We will get to learn even more about Calle next season as he is the number one option on that team with Silfverberg moving on to the NHL. Most of my feelings on him come from actually watching him play online, he has incredible hockey sense and makes quick decisions. He answered most of his weight questions and should come over at 190 after next season. Has plus speed even by NHL standards, he should transition well with one low 30 to 40 season before becoming 50+ point guy. He is the real deal, we will have to wait and see, but I really wish they would give him an outright chance to make the team this year, because he probably would. The older Wings raved about him during the World Championships.

The Smith stats are a limited sampling but he was a point every other game player during his 14 game callup. I am curious to see what he does his rookie season but he should be north of 30 points as a reasonable expectation.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:13 AM
  #89
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
There comes a point where stats don't tell the whole story, which I freely admit. I also already admitted the Wings' prospects who have problems, mainly Pulkkinen.

When Hakan (That bum that found Datsyuk and Zetterberg) says Jarnkrok will never need to play a game in the AHL, you get a pretty good idea of his bust chances.

And for the record, I suspect that even though Hakan claims Jarnkrok doesn't need to play in the AHL, he probably still will due to roster space.
Bingo this has been my entire point ,at the end of the day a prospect is just a prospect some look to have more promise than others .But until they prove it it doesnt matter who said what about them, or how much they scored in junior.And how high they are on a list of prospects.They still are not nhlers

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:15 AM
  #90
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I am not all that concerned about Jarnkrok cracking the top 6. He is already winning mens leagues on a first line and making the World Championship cuts for Sweden. He won't spend any time in the AHL, he is a poor mans Backstrom when I have watched him play in Sweden. I really do mean that in a nice way, the Z comparisons are made because of the Wings and their very similar development. We will get to learn even more about Calle next season as he is the number one option on that team with Silfverberg moving on to the NHL. Most of my feelings on him come from actually watching him play online, he has incredible hockey sense and makes quick decisions. He answered most of his weight questions and should come over at 190 after next season. Has plus speed even by NHL standards, he should transition well with one low 30 to 40 season before becoming 50+ point guy. He is the real deal, we will have to wait and see, but I really wish they would give him an outright chance to make the team this year, because he probably would. The older Wings raved about him during the World Championships.

The Smith stats are a limited sampling but he was a point every other game player during his 14 game callup. I am curious to see what he does his rookie season but he should be north of 30 points as a reasonable expectation.
Iam excited to see him play this season ,but i dont think he will be as big a scorer as he was in the SEL ,he looks more like a 15 to 20 goal 40 point two way forward

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:17 AM
  #91
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Bingo this has been my entire point ,at the end of the day a prospect is just a prospect some look to have more promise than others .But until they prove it it doesnt matter who said what about them, or how much they scored in junior.And how high they are on a list of prospects.They still are not nhlers
I understand your point, I'm saying it's stupid. Any prospect is unproven, and yes, any can bust.

That doesn't mean I'm interested in making stupid moves because of it. Certainly under the realm of possibilities that every one of Detroit's prospects never sees the NHL. Also under the realm of possibilities that a meteor hits my house, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna build a bomb shelter...

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:19 AM
  #92
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I understand your point, I'm saying it's stupid. Any prospect is unproven, and yes, any can bust.

That doesn't mean I'm interested in making stupid moves because of it. Certainly under the realm of possibilities that every one of Detroit's prospects never sees the NHL. Also under the realm of possibilities that a meteor hits my house, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna build a bomb shelter...
Ok then why all the fuss when i mentioned rebuild would you prefer i use the word retool or something else entirly different .Because like or not detroit has started one

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:19 AM
  #93
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Iam excited to see him play this season ,but i dont think he will be as big a scorer as he was in the SEL ,he looks more like a 15 to 20 goal 40 point two way forward
Probably in his rookie season, but in the future you are setting the bar pretty low. He is a sniper and has all-star level talent projection. I would be shocked if that is all he turns into. Anybody that tries calling him a power forward is way off and I have seen that a couple times on here, but he has a ton of talent offensively. He is also very sound defensively, think Kulemin before he forgot how to play hockey and what you thought he might become.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:22 AM
  #94
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Ok then why all the fuss when i mentioned rebuild would you prefer i use the word retool or something else entirly different .Because like or not detroit has started one
Retooling is probably the more appropriate term. Rebuilding involves selling off a ton of pieces and intentionally sucking at least that is how most Detroit fans view it. Being Pittsburgh, Chicago or Edmonton.

There will be some tinkering, but none of the big pieces look ready to be moved and answers will be looked for while keeping the current core. So far from a rebuild at least as of today.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:22 AM
  #95
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Probably in his rookie season, but in the future you are setting the bar pretty low. He is a sniper and has all-star level talent projection. I would be shocked if that is all he turns into. Anybody that tries calling him a power forward is way off and I have seen that a couple times on here, but he has a ton of talent offensively. He is also very sound defensively, think Kulemin before he forgot how to play hockey and what you thought he might become.
Oh i know he could be that and more .But after you watch your team draft names like Bonk,Diagle,Lee etc you dont get too excited about stats and junior play

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:23 AM
  #96
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Ok then why all the fuss when i mentioned rebuild would you prefer i use the word retool or something else entirly different .Because like or not detroit has started one
I would prefer "Reload", which is basically what you do when you restock the shelves without having a period of sucking.

Rebuild is what Edmonton is doing, what Chicago did (For so many years), what Pittsburgh did from 2001-2006.

Like it or not, Detroit doesn't need to tank to build themselves into a contender.

Although having Chiarelli give us whatever he slipped into Burke's drink before trading Kessel would greatly help.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:26 AM
  #97
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I would prefer "Reload", which is basically what you do when you restock the shelves without having a period of sucking.

Rebuild is what Edmonton is doing, what Chicago did (For so many years), what Pittsburgh did from 2001-2006.

Like it or not, Detroit doesn't need to tank to build themselves into a contender.

Although having Chiarelli give us whatever he slipped into Burke's drink before trading Kessel would greatly help.
We don't have any stud Americans to trade and fleece a Canadian market with

I guess Howard but we kind of need that guy.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:27 AM
  #98
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Retooling is probably the more appropriate term. Rebuilding involves selling off a ton of pieces and intentionally sucking at least that is how most Detroit fans view it. Being Pittsburgh, Chicago or Edmonton.

There will be some tinkering, but none of the big pieces look ready to be moved and answers will be looked for while keeping the current core. So far from a rebuild at least as of today.
Yeah i dont believe in tanking you need to stay somewhat competitive and grow your kids slowly.Kinda like detroit has done in the past and ottawa has been doing for a while now.Keeping solid vets around and sheltering the kids during the rough times you know.Gonchar has helped a ton with EK and he has been worth the 5.5 million alone just for that

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:29 AM
  #99
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Oh i know he could be that and more .But after you watch your team draft names like Bonk,Diagle,Lee etc you dont get too excited about stats and junior play
Higher on him than I am on Mika Zibanejad for instance. Although I have pretty big amount of praise for Silfverberg because I have seen him a lot more. Great hockey sense and guy just loves to score. I wish we could trick Ottawa into whatever trade it took to get him reunited with Jarnkrok.

Note I don't want to know the actual price, I know it is bad and we cannot do it nor does it make sense for either team right now.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2012, 01:30 AM
  #100
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I would prefer "Reload", which is basically what you do when you restock the shelves without having a period of sucking.

Rebuild is what Edmonton is doing, what Chicago did (For so many years), what Pittsburgh did from 2001-2006.

Like it or not, Detroit doesn't need to tank to build themselves into a contender.

Although having Chiarelli give us whatever he slipped into Burke's drink before trading Kessel would greatly help.
Ok reload it is ,this is all i meant .Can i say you need shoot more than one bullet on the defense then on the defense and you wont get mad

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.