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Old
08-05-2012, 05:12 PM
  #101
glasses91
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if tavarez goes anywhere its to toronto for 4 first rounds

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08-05-2012, 09:22 PM
  #102
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It's fine to say that any one of the pieces would not equate to JT, but to say that the sum of Sedins, Edler, Kesler and Schneider are not equal to JT is just downright stupid. I'm sorry if this is insulting, but there is no other way for me to express this adequately: The thought that JT is worth more than this package is Stupid. The thought that the Canucks would ever entertain such and idea is Stupid. The thought that the Islanders wouldn't do this trade in a heartbeat is Stupid.
What part of the Isles and Canucks don't make good trade partners because of the isles budget restrictions went over your head ? What good is adding several big salaries,when Wang's budget can't afford them? Why would the budget tight isles, trade a franchise player starting a team friendly 6 yr extension, to land a soon to be ufa like Edler ?

What part of the Isles in a youth movement, would not be interested in trading 21 yr old Tavares for 31 yr old players, is too hard to grasp?


Imo the isles would have no interest in exchanging Tavares for Kesler.


Quote:
This board has been infested with this stupidity for too long. People can be homers that's fine, but I'm sick of homerism being an excuse to be ignorant of reality. Yes, every fan base loves its star players, but no, they are not untouchable, they are not worth 4 guys as good or close to them, and teams have traded young stars in the past. People come on here day after day and talk in these absolute statements like they are some sore of omniscient presence gracing us with their insight, yet all they are doing is taking away from the chance for any rational discussion.
If you are sick of homerism, then try looking at a trade from both sides.

Isles don't want much older players for Tavares.

They are not looking to add another young goalie because they are pleased with how Nilson/Poulin/Koskinen are developing.

The don't want soon to be ufas they can't afford to Keep.

You think this fantasy thread of our team will take RD, if the Isles also trade us Tavares, is the first on these boards

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Old
08-05-2012, 09:24 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by glasses91 View Post
if tavarez goes anywhere its to toronto for 4 first rounds


That line would have been funnier a yr ago. Before Tavares signed his 6 yr extension in Sept. 2011, taking him into his ufa period.

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Old
08-06-2012, 02:49 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
That line would have been funnier a yr ago. Before Tavares signed his 6 yr extension in Sept. 2011, taking him into his ufa period.
Maybe the joke should be Tavares will only go to Toronto in 2018 for a 100 billion by 10 years

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08-06-2012, 03:59 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Maybe the joke should be Tavares will only go to Toronto in 2018 for a 100 billion by 10 years
no...that wouldnt be funny either.

why in gods name would garth trade tavares? i hate to say it...but...hes the "face of the franchise" ( i hate giving a player that label ). probably the future captain of the team. hes signed for 6 years at a very affordable contract. and proved that he wants and likes to play for long island by signing such a deal.

so unless you offer up a deal that beats what philly gave quebec for lindros......stop trying.

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Old
08-06-2012, 04:45 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
That line would have been funnier a yr ago. Before Tavares signed his 6 yr extension in Sept. 2011, taking him into his ufa period.

Or if you had a sense of humor.

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Old
08-06-2012, 09:23 AM
  #107
EvoLu7ioN
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Originally Posted by Konk View Post
I think we are all aware, especially Canuck fans even though they do not want to admit it, that Kesler is not likely to hit 40 goals again. This coming from someone who watched him play since he was 15 years old with the NTDP. He just doesn't have that kind of offensive talent. He's developed a very good wrist shot since those days, but his release isn't elite by a long shot and there isn't too much else going on in his arsenal to make you think of him as a consistent 40 goal scorer.

Actually, none of that is necessary, Datsyuk is a perfect present day example. Tavares isn't there yet, his defensive abilities improved 10-fold last season. His skating is actually a lot better than you make it seem, he does have seperation ability as he showcased last season, and more importantly, his hockey IQ is through the roof. He's also relentless everywhere on the ice, which combined with his IQ will allow him to be a top defensive player along with already being a top offensive player. He's well on his way already.

Kesler's simply nowhere near as valuable as Tavares right now, forget about the next few years as Tavares continues to emerge.
I agree, I don't think he's a 40 goal scorer at all. He simply has too much responsibility defensively, spends too much time on the PK, and is like the 3rd scoring threat on the PP. But when healthy, what he is though is an explosive athlete, nightmare physically the way he bangs at 6 2", and a guy who will consistently put up 25-30 goals, 70-75 points, and be in the discussion for Selke every year.

Tavares has the potential to be an elite offensive player and put up some big points, there's no denying that. But let's not kid ourselves with the Datsyuk comparisons. When I watch Tavares, it's like he gets where he needs to go, but it's in spite of his awkward stride. Datsyuk is an absolutely phenomenal skater. His edges are elite, and he does in fact possess an explosive getaweay gear (as shown below) that he used more when he was younger, he just plays a lot more reserved and cerebral now due to the evolution of his game. His edges and skating is STILL elite, he's shifty as hell and almost impossible to read or predict based on flawless mechanics. Hockey IQ is a hard skill to guage and I haven't seen enough of Tavares to guage that (would need tt watch an entire season)so I won't get into that.



Would I pick tavares over Kesler now and going forward? OF COURSE. But what I'm saying is the gap is not nearly close enough to justify taking on Dipietro's negative value, giving up one of the more promising young goalies in the game, and our first to boot.

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Old
08-06-2012, 09:44 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by MISC View Post
Or if you had a sense of humor.
You think the Tavares to Toronto jokes are new?

I've been reading/ hearing them since 2009.

I'm waiting for new material.

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Old
08-06-2012, 09:44 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
I agree, I don't think he's a 40 goal scorer at all. He simply has too much responsibility defensively, spends too much time on the PK, and is like the 3rd scoring threat on the PP. But when healthy, what he is though is an explosive athlete, nightmare physically the way he bangs at 6 2", and a guy who will consistently put up 25-30 goals, 70-75 points, and be in the discussion for Selke every year.
I think by and large his career numbers speak of a 40-50 point, 20 goal defensive specialist. If you disagree, you're basing your entire expectations off of one season, which is unfair to Kesler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
Tavares has the potential to be an elite offensive player and put up some big points, there's no denying that.
What's with this potential talk, like he just stepped off the draft podium? He's already an elite offensive threat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
But let's not kid ourselves with the Datsyuk comparisons.
Reading is fundamental. Go back and re-read the post. There were certain parameters set that were said to be required for a defensive player to be effective, yet, the best defensive player in the game met none of them. I simply pointed out the ridiculousness of the original statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
When I watch Tavares, it's like he gets where he needs to go, but it's in spite of his awkward stride.
When you watched Tavares his rookie season, you mean? Because that does not describe the current state of his skating ability. At all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
Would I pick tavares over Kesler now and going forward? OF COURSE. But what I'm saying is the gap is not nearly close enough to justify taking on Dipietro's negative value, giving up one of the more promising young goalies in the game, and our first to boot.
This of course is because you think Kesler is a 70 point player because of one season, which his career statistics don't support.

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Old
08-13-2012, 12:31 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I think this would be an easy no from the NYI.
As well as an easy no for VAN

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Old
08-13-2012, 12:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
In order to pry JT out of the Isle, we'd need to be offering up something fierce. A 1st round pick is nice but pointless, and Ballard wouldn't be the defenseman they'd want back.

TO NYI
Kesler
Edler
Schneider

TO VAN
Tavares

You want the kid? Prepare to over pay. Even still, he's the face of their franchise, they likely wouldn't do it.
Have Vancouver throw in first and seconds, and NYI throw in say Hamonic, or De Haan and I would do it as a canucks fan. Making sure the picks are equal to whoever we get

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Old
08-13-2012, 12:44 PM
  #112
CM Lundqvist
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Why would you even bother trying to make a trade like this when you know what the answer is already going to be?

Haven't we seen enough of these to know that the Islanders will not trade Tavares?

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Old
08-13-2012, 12:44 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by HogTown06 View Post
I rather like this proposal. It feels good to know Leafs fans are not the only ones out there creating homerish threads offering quantity for other teams start players.
But ours give up at least well above average players, when I see a leafs proposal giving up Kessel and/or Lupul + for a better player (say Erikson) which is kind of what it is here

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Old
08-13-2012, 12:51 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Tavares has 100 pt potential. They do not upgrade in forwards. If one player has 90-100 pts, and 3 have 120, then you factor in the 2 other players that replace the 2 spots, which would at least be 40 pts, so then 140>120.
Except one is a goalie and one is a defence man

so 100 points to 50, bump that up to 60-65 healthy, who is also better defensively and is a good leader

and then a fifty point defenseman to your replacement, considering that any good player would be on the team regardless, it is more of a third pairing defenceman (edler in your system means your top five before without it is top six) so lets say 25 points
for your stupid logic, I hope you have 15 point goalie

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Old
08-13-2012, 12:56 PM
  #115
settinguptheplay
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Originally Posted by Konk View Post
I think by and large his career numbers speak of a 40-50 point, 20 goal defensive specialist. If you disagree, you're basing your entire expectations off of one season, which is unfair to Kesler.

His last 4 years consisted of a 59, 75, 73 and last years 49 point seasons. Which of those numbers scream career 40~50 point guy? I think a healthy Kesler is good for 25g 40a 65p a season to go along with Selke quality defense.


This of course is because you think Kesler is a 70 point player because of one season, which his career statistics don't support.

Actually he has had two 70+ point seasons. And I think it is fair to say that he could reach 70+ again given quality line mates. He is not an elite offensive player. No doubt. But he is a good offensive player to go along with an elite defensive skillset.
To comment on the topic. This is a trade neither team wants to do.

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Old
08-13-2012, 01:17 PM
  #116
CM Lundqvist
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The Datsyuk comparisons are absolutely flatout ridiculous.

Tavares might be a 100+ point scorer one day, but in no way shape or form will he EVER be the two-way player that Datsyuk is.

Just to put things in perspective, there are only FIVE players in the history of the Selke Trophy to ever win it while scoring a point per game or better in a full season. (this excludes Ron Francis in the 95 lockout shortened season). Four of these players, (Troy Murray, Doug Gilmour, Sergei Fedorov, Pavel Datsyuk) scored over 90 or more points. Two of these players scored over 100 or more points while winning it (Gilmour, Fedorov).

Now, only two players have done this feat TWICE in the history of the NHL. Fedorov in his amazing 1994 Hart Trophy winning season and in 1996 (scoring 100+ points both times) and Datsyuk who in two of his THREE CONSECUTIVE Selke winning seasons scored 97 points, in 2008 and 2009.

I think it's really understated on how good of a defensive player Pavel Datsyuk really in terms of his relevance to the all-time two way forwards.

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Old
08-13-2012, 01:32 PM
  #117
CREW99AW
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Originally Posted by ubercanucksfan View Post
Have Vancouver throw in first and seconds, and NYI throw in say Hamonic, or De Haan and I would do it as a canucks fan. Making sure the picks are equal to whoever we get
Yeah, the isles want to trade 22 yr old Hamonic, who's developing into a stud or 21 yr old De Haan, who looks nhl ready, for a late 1st and/or 2nd

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Old
08-13-2012, 02:38 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Yeah, the isles want to trade 22 yr old Hamonic, who's developing into a stud or 21 yr old De Haan, who looks nhl ready, for a late 1st and/or 2nd
In addition to Tavares!


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Old
08-13-2012, 06:09 PM
  #119
SheasRebellion6
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Edler
Kesler
Raymond
Schneider
for
JT?

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Old
08-13-2012, 07:21 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
Edler
Kesler
Raymond
Schneider
for
JT?
Gillis laughs and quickly hangs up.

_____________________

@ Konk: He's a 70+point player with elite defensive skills, nothing more nothing less.
Btw, he didn't just hit 70 points once, you need to do some research.

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Old
08-13-2012, 07:45 PM
  #121
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Luongo isn't coming back to Vancouver no matter what. Rick DP starting goalie next season? Disaster. Huge NO to this trade even though Tavares would be fantastic in Vancouver.

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Old
08-14-2012, 01:54 AM
  #122
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Luongo isn't coming back to Vancouver no matter what. Rick DP starting goalie next season? Disaster. Huge NO to this trade even though Tavares would be fantastic in Vancouver.
We don't have to trade Luongo, especially if Schneider's gone...

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Old
08-14-2012, 02:39 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Konk View Post
I think by and large his career numbers speak of a 40-50 point, 20 goal defensive specialist. If you disagree, you're basing your entire expectations off of one season, which is unfair to Kesler.


What's with this potential talk, like he just stepped off the draft podium? He's already an elite offensive threat.

Reading is fundamental. Go back and re-read the post. There were certain parameters set that were said to be required for a defensive player to be effective, yet, the best defensive player in the game met none of them. I simply pointed out the ridiculousness of the original statement.

When you watched Tavares his rookie season, you mean? Because that does not describe the current state of his skating ability. At all.

This of course is because you think Kesler is a 70 point player because of one season, which his career statistics don't support.
He's been a 70 point player more than once...

I think you're selling Kesler a bit short.

Don't use career stats... it never tells you the whole story.

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Old
08-14-2012, 02:55 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
I think by and large his career numbers speak of a 40-50 point, 20 goal defensive specialist. If you disagree, you're basing your entire expectations off of one season, which is unfair to Kesler.
In the four seasons he's played since turning 24, Kesler has averaged 28.5 goals and 64 points per season. While he obviously won't be returning Tavares, let's not sell Kesler short either.

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Old
08-14-2012, 08:25 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
Edler
Kesler
Raymond
Schneider
for
JT?
Gesh. No thanks.

Edler- ufa in 2013. You ignore the isles budget restrictions.

Kesler-NYI imo would rather have Tavares on their #1 line then Kesler. Have Tavares as the face of the franchise

Raymond- Not as upgrade on Moulson/KO/Grabner in the top 6.
And with Nino, Strome, Brock Nelson, kabanov, Cizikas, Ulstrom in the pipeline, I don't see a reaosn to block their way with the okay Raymond.

Schneider- Isles are pleased with the development of Poulin/Nilson/Koskenin.

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