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What can you say about the Calgary Flames

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Old
08-06-2012, 02:04 PM
  #51
tmurfin
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Original thread, would read again

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08-06-2012, 02:06 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
They don't need to "tank" to rebuild.

To "rebuild", no. To "compete with Edmonton", yes.

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08-06-2012, 02:09 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Pretending he'll be a top line center (like some Flames fans are) is much less likely than him being a 40 - 50 point center. In case you haven't looked at other players in that scoring range, it is in line with what an average second line center will score. I don't see anyone in here screaming that Cervenka is a guaranteed bust.
People who project him as a top line center are just as wrong as people who project him to bust. Projecting him as anything is dumb because I doubt 99% of people here have ever seen him play. In fact all of Calgary's entire center situation is filled with the same kinds of question marks -- they could be good, they could be awful. Nobody knows because there's evidence pointing either way. It's just that most people have already determined they will be awful. Classic "what have you done for me lately" HF mentality.

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08-06-2012, 02:15 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by mrdonkey View Post
People who project him as a top line center are just as wrong as people who project him to bust. Projecting him as anything is dumb because I doubt 99% of people here have ever seen him play. In fact all of Calgary's entire center situation is filled with the same kinds of question marks -- they could be good, they could be awful. Nobody knows because there's evidence pointing either way. It's just that most people have already determined they will be awful. Classic "what have you done for me lately" HF mentality.
Well, most people tend to justify "what have you done for me lately" based off of success. And Calgary's centers really haven't had any in top six roles in the NHL. It's a legitimate concern and criticism.

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08-06-2012, 02:15 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Basilisk View Post
To "rebuild", no. To "compete with Edmonton", yes.
Because Edmonton "tanked", it won't be long before Calgary won't be competing with them at all.

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08-06-2012, 02:17 PM
  #56
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If you know anything about the Flames (which most of you don't), you'd see that they're a significantly better team than they were 1 year ago today. They were night and day better for the 2nd half last year, and have made many improvements since then. Those are steps forward without having to take steps back. Say next season, Feaster makes more good UFA signings, and more young prospects emerge. That's another step forward. There's no reason to indicate that the Flames will need to take a step back as long as they're continually making improvements.

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08-06-2012, 02:19 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
They are probably the least 'sexy' team in the league, but they have enough talent that they could limp into a playoff spot. An 8-10 finish is likely, but teams surprise every year, so who really knows?
This, on paper they dont look all that great; however, a lot of those players dont mind getting dirty.....

they could dig their way into the playoffs if they play as a group for 82 games.

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08-06-2012, 02:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
If you know anything about the Flames (which most of you don't), you'd see that they're a significantly better team than they were 1 year ago today. They were night and day better for the 2nd half last year, and have made many improvements since then. Those are steps forward without having to take steps back. Say next season, Feaster makes more good UFA signings, and more young prospects emerge. That's another step forward. There's no reason to indicate that the Flames will need to take a step back as long as they're continually making improvements.
Calgary has been notoriously slow starters in recent years. You can't say for sure if they will actually show up before Christmas this year or not. Using your logic though, Calgary is a significantly worse team than they were two and three years ago and they couldn't make the playoffs then, so why would they now?

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08-06-2012, 02:20 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
...and yet the Jackets are destined to finish last again, right?
What are you implying here?

The Flames got younger and more talented, but until they trade away all their stars and tank for a first overall, HFBoards will continue to say the same things.

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08-06-2012, 02:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
It's extremely difficult to retool/rebuild on the fly. On the one hand it's admirable that they don't want to completely tear down. On the other hand, it's also extremely difficult to find elite young talent picking in the middle of the first round. You can find good players in the middle of the first. It's going to be rarer to find superstars there. I see someone has mentioned, well maybe they can find a Giroux in the middle of the first round. Maybe a player drops like Kopitar did to LA. Maybe there will be another extremely deep 2003 type draft coming up. I don't know if hoping for one of those things is a great idea.

Don't get me wrong, the Flames have some good pieces on their roster, but I just don't see that high end elite type player where a GM can say, this is the guy that's going to be the leader on this team after we retool. Bartschi might be one piece. But they're missing a high end center and Bouwmeester can eat a ton of minutes but no one knows how he'd do in the playoffs.
I think your assessment is very accurate, see Toronto, its a strange combination of trying to play to potentially too high of expectations, with the struggle to buy or sell when you are in the middle of the pack. Ottawa did it best I think, there expectations were they were a rebuilding/retooling team, they have a plan ( i forget if it was a 2 year or 3 year) but got into the playoffs with the team they had, and acquired young assets to help the move the franchise forward.

I think Calgary will be solid, and I think Feaster is getting way too much criticism for the work he has done, the season hasn't even started and the guy is receiving so much heat. Let it play on, if the moves he made do not pan out, than he will need to be held accountable, but give him a chance.


Last edited by Blaylock38: 08-06-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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Old
08-06-2012, 02:23 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Because Edmonton "tanked", it won't be long before Calgary won't be competing with them at all.
Because Calgary will stay competitive while Edmonton will lose their talent and rebuild again? We all know they will lose half their talent, Dubnyk is terrible too.. See I can buy in HF myths as well.. It's been said, the Flames are night and day better this year, but hey, I'll let you armchair gm's judge before they even touch the ice. After all, you all know better than a gm who has won major championships with every team he's managed

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08-06-2012, 02:33 PM
  #62
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Mark Jankowski is clearly the answer. Totally the best player they could have gotten in the draft.

Feaster is such a dunce it is ridiculous.

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08-06-2012, 02:35 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by tmurfin View Post
Because Calgary will stay competitive while Edmonton will lose their talent and rebuild again? We all know they will lose half their talent, Dubnyk is terrible too.. See I can buy in HF myths as well.. It's been said, the Flames are night and day better this year, but hey, I'll let you armchair gm's judge before they even touch the ice. After all, you all know better than a gm who has won major championships with every team he's managed
No, because Calgary's team is getting older and they don't have the caliber of player in the pipeline to replace the ones they will be losing soon. It's a pretty easy concept for non-homers to understand. Without two players, the Flames are a lottery team, so unless you are expecting Irving (or a free agent signing) to step in and be as good as Kipper, Baertschi to replace Iginla (who could be leaving as soon as this season), plus your prospect pool (and FA signings) to give enough other prospects to fill the large holes on the roster, you are going to be disappointed. Add to that the fact that Feaster's "great" free agent signings and moves are average at best (aside from Cervenka, which is a great signing as its a no-lose situation) and he has a history of drafting horribly (not commenting on recent drafts as they are too recent).

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Old
08-06-2012, 02:36 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Calgary has been notoriously slow starters in recent years. You can't say for sure if they will actually show up before Christmas this year or not. Using your logic though, Calgary is a significantly worse team than they were two and three years ago and they couldn't make the playoffs then, so why would they now?
Bourque last year was an anchor dragging our team down. Getting rid of him was just as much a positive as getting Cammalleri was.

I don't know how you argue that they were better two years ago. They weren't.

Look at Glencross's production and his goal scoring has gone up every year he's been in Calgary. He's still getting better. People like to gloss over the fact that he's a rugged grinder with a deadly wrist shot that scored 26 goals in 67 games last year. Maybe he'll plateau this year but he's been on a steady incline since getting here, and is a 30 goal scorer in a full year. Yet Iginla is apparently the only guy that can play the top line.

This Flames team has never had a PP QB like Wideman. He may be a liability defensively but covering those types of errors is the area where J-Bo IS a great defenseman, and everyone who follows the team is pretty sure that it's gonna be a good pair.

Bartschi could get 50, maybe 60 points. He's a clutch, game breaking talent. No one knows how big he is for us this year but he's definitely a great addition.

Backlund should take a step forward. He signed a contract to prove his worth, he knows he had a bad season, wasn't given many opportunities, everything went wrong for him. Everyone is expecting an improved Backlund and rightfully so.

Brodie has been continually progressing. No one knows where he tops out but he should be a more improved player this year.

I can go on and on but there are countless areas where Flames are improving.

Also a lot of Flames prospects are underrated. Max Reinhart for example often gets called a dime a dozen player that every team has, and he'd be lucky to even make the NHL. So ignorant. Reinhart may be overshadowed by his brothers, but I'm positive that he won't just make the NHL, he's gonna be a good player. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets called up this season and makes a good showing of himself. He, or Bill Arnold, Michael Ferland, they may not be top liners but they're going to provide a lot of depth down the line.

Then there's Jankowski; let's at least wait and see what he does before we annoint him as a bust? There's a reason though why scouts love his game on first viewing, because it takes about 5 seconds to see how talented he is. But people are saying he won't even play a game without seeing this for themselves, but that's just a perfect example of the Flames ignorance that pervades this board.

Bottom line is that the roster is underrated, the prospects are underrated, the GM is underrated, everything about the Flames is underrated on this board.

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Old
08-06-2012, 02:37 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kcoyote3 View Post
Mark Jankowski is clearly the answer. Totally the best player they could have gotten in the draft.

Feaster is such a dunce it is ridiculous.
How many times have you seen Janks play again? I'm guessing about 0 times.

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08-06-2012, 02:38 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by fools russian View Post
Considering he refuses to rebuild,
The Flames ARE rebuilding, just not in the Oiler-honored and HF approved manner of tanking, being horrific and not giving the fans much to watch. They have moved away from taking players very likely to play, with limited upside, to players who are more likely to play, to players with big upside and longer odds of playing in the NHL. The drafting of John Gaudreau and Mark Jankowski are perfect examples of the rebuild in action. Both players have top end talent, but with size issues that could hold them back. If those players get past the size issue, the Flames have found two top six players without having to tank. Say all you want about going off of the HF approved draft list provided by Bob McKenzie and THN, but it appears there is some method to the current management group's apparent madness. Gaudreau has stepped into the spot light and shone at every opportunity. If he continues to progress he'll be part of the new core. Same with Jankowski, who wowed at prospect camp in Calgary and held his own against the likes of Bartschi and Gaudreau for skill level. Add in some of the youngsters coming out of junior and in their second year as pros and it is easy to see where the rebuild is going. A lot is going to have to go right for the rebuild to be successful, but the same thing applies to the teams that finish dead last too. At least Flames fans aren't subject to being out of the playoff race at Christmas like the fans of certain favorites here.

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08-06-2012, 02:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Kcoyote3 View Post
Mark Jankowski is clearly the answer. Totally the best player they could have gotten in the draft.

Feaster is such a dunce it is ridiculous.
Oh totally bro, your scouting credentials speak for themselves, totally agree

Kid has even touched ice since being drafted, But hey, total bust right

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08-06-2012, 02:41 PM
  #68
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Tanking for 1st overall is not the only way to rebuild. Calgary is currently in a rebuild, you guys are just too stupid to realize it.

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08-06-2012, 02:42 PM
  #69
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They aren't rebuilding by blowing the team up, but they have gotten a bit younger. They still should be in 7th-11th place limbo in the West. Not good enough to go far and not bad enough to draft can't miss guys.

Iginla and what he means to the city and team handcuffs them and will continue to do so until he retires.

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08-06-2012, 02:52 PM
  #70
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Iginla, and Sarich
for
Ballard, Raymond, Schroeder, Van 1st

Bouwmeester
For
S. Gagne, Musil, Edm 1st

Kipper
For
Crawford, Shaw, Chi 1st

Cammi - Cervenka - Shaw
Hudler - Gagne - Tanguay
Glencross - Backlund - Raymond
Baertschi - Stajan - Jackman

Widemen - Gio
Ballard - Babchuk
Brodie - Butler

Plus Schroeder, Musil and 3 more 1st round picks to the prospect pool.

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08-06-2012, 03:03 PM
  #71
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Ah yes, this again. The Flames should clearly rebuild. Here are Buttonwood's 5 step plan for real success (opposed to the fake kind):

1) Trade Iginla for Seguin, Krejci, and a 1st. Classic quantity for quality trade. Calgary gets depth down the middle and Boston gets the missing piece.

2) Trade Bouwmeester for Doughty and a 2nd. Comparable value, I'm not sure about Doughty's contract but Doughty's age and the 2nd helps with our rebuild.

3) Trade Stajan and Babchuk for Neal and Letang. Stajan is the odd man after acquiring Krejci and while I hate giving up on Babchuk I think Neal might replace demi-God Iginla in the future. Letang is a good character guy who is looking to bounce back from a rough playoffs.

4) Kiprusoff for Pietrangelo. What's better than having 2 goalies leading in statistical categories. Three goaltenders. St. Louis clearly does this. Calgary is just looking to get younger on the blue line, so I think they do this trade especially with Babchuk gone (can Pietrangelo play on the PP???)

5) 6th for Rinne. Classic Moneyball move here. One man's junk is another treasure. That albatross contract won't look so bad on a young rebuilding team like Calgary. Nashville thanks us.

Boom. Easy. Rebuild done, I hope I have appeased all of HFBoards calling for the Calgary rebuild. Could be drafting high for a year or 2 without Iginla and Kiprusoff, but hey, this is a franchise with direction now. Thanks for coming out.

This was not serious you 12 year old.


Last edited by Buttonwood: 08-06-2012 at 03:08 PM.
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Old
08-06-2012, 03:06 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanFan101 View Post
Iginla, and Sarich
for
Ballard, Raymond, Schroeder, Van 1st

Absolutely not.

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08-06-2012, 03:08 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Backlund View Post
Absolutely not.
If Iggy were signed past this year I would agree, but for one year I don't think you will see a lot more than that. Maybe replace Schroeder with Jensen but the flames have more of a need at centre.

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08-06-2012, 03:11 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Buttonwood View Post
Ah yes, this again. The Flames should clearly rebuild. Here are Buttonwood's 5 step plan for real success (opposed to the fake kind):

1) Trade Iginla for Seguin, Krejci, and a 1st. Classic quantity for quality trade. Calgary gets depth down the middle and Boston gets the missing piece.

2) Trade Bouwmeester for Doughty and a 2nd. Comparable value, I'm not sure about Doughty's contract but Doughty's age and the 2nd helps with our rebuild.

3) Trade Stajan and Babchuk for Neal and Letang. Stajan is the odd man after acquiring Krejci and while I hate giving up on Babchuk I think Neal might replace demi-God Iginla in the future. Letang is a good character guy who is looking to bounce back from a rough playoffs.

4) Kiprusoff for Pietrangelo. What's better than having 2 goalies leading in statistical categories. Three goaltenders. St. Louis clearly does this. Calgary is just looking to get younger on the blue line, so I think they do this trade especially with Babchuk gone (can Pietrangelo play on the PP???)

5) 6th for Rinne. Classic Moneyball move here. One man's junk is another treasure. That albatross contract won't look so bad on a young rebuilding team like Calgary. Nashville thanks us.

Boom. Easy. Rebuild done, I hope I have appeased all of HFBoards calling for the Calgary rebuild. Could be drafting high for a year or 2 without Iginla and Kiprusoff, but hey, this is a franchise with direction now. Thanks for coming out.

This was not serious you 12 year old.
Thread winner. A++.

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08-06-2012, 03:13 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanFan101 View Post
Iginla, and Sarich
for
Ballard, Raymond, Schroeder, Van 1st

Bouwmeester
For
S. Gagne, Musil, Edm 1st

Kipper
For
Crawford, Shaw, Chi 1st

Cammi - Cervenka - Shaw
Hudler - Gagne - Tanguay
Glencross - Backlund - Raymond
Baertschi - Stajan - Jackman

Widemen - Gio
Ballard - Babchuk
Brodie - Butler

Plus Schroeder, Musil and 3 more 1st round picks to the prospect pool.
yea.. Jbo is not going to fetch that return.

IMO Flames would be just fine. Bartschi is going to be a very good player and should be in Flames opening night lineup.
If they could get a Nash'like return for Iginla (Dubinsky+Anisimov+) then they should pull the trigger and get good young depth players.
They can try to get Iggy resigned when he becomes a UFA.

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