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What can you say about the Calgary Flames

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Old
08-06-2012, 03:15 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by VanFan101 View Post
If Iggy were signed past this year I would agree, but for one year I don't think you will see a lot more than that. Maybe replace Schroeder with Jensen but the flames have more of a need at centre.
Who says the Flames would? I'd be more than happy to keep Iginla on our team if he cannot provide the package we would want for trading him. Our franchise player is not moving for your ****.

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08-06-2012, 03:17 PM
  #77
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9th-11th place.

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08-06-2012, 03:17 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
yea.. Jbo is not going to fetch that return.

IMO Flames would be just fine. Bartschi is going to be a very good player and should be in Flames opening night lineup.
If they could get a Nash'like return for Iginla (Dubinsky+Anisimov+) then they should pull the trigger and get good young depth players.
They can try to get Iggy resigned when he becomes a UFA.
They won't get a Nash like return for 1 year of Iggy though. Heck even if he were signed, he is getting up there and still probably wouldn't bring in the same return.

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08-06-2012, 03:34 PM
  #79
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They won't get a Nash like return for 1 year of Iggy though. Heck even if he were signed, he is getting up there and still probably wouldn't bring in the same return.
well then they should keep him and try to extend him for a few more yrs. The guy trains hard and should have a few more years left in the tank.

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08-06-2012, 03:35 PM
  #80
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Like said on this thread before, the Flames need to start rebuild very soon. They've also had bad drafts year in year out and missed the playoffs 3 years in a row. Does the organization not realize this? The team doesn't seem to have any kind of a future ahead of it. This is why they need to blow up the line up immediately. I'd like to see Tanguay back on the Avs, there's a LW spot open.

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08-06-2012, 03:40 PM
  #81
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I have to say that I admire the Calgary Flames and the way they are managed.

There is no sucking for a win down the road. Every season they try to be as competitive as possible despite a lack of depth and an aging core. They are also quite loyal to the players they employ which is good.

I hate to think Columbus may be intentionally tanking for a rebuild like Edmonton and others have done. That, to me, is not the essence of the sport and I think it belittles fans that pay good money to watch their team every season. It is a manager's job to make the team the best it can be for the upcoming season. I think teams need to try to make themselves better at EVERY opportunity, not just stockpiling young talent and hoping for a cup in 3-4 years.

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08-06-2012, 03:41 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
Bourque last year was an anchor dragging our team down. Getting rid of him was just as much a positive as getting Cammalleri was.

I don't know how you argue that they were better two years ago. They weren't.

Look at Glencross's production and his goal scoring has gone up every year he's been in Calgary. He's still getting better. People like to gloss over the fact that he's a rugged grinder with a deadly wrist shot that scored 26 goals in 67 games last year. Maybe he'll plateau this year but he's been on a steady incline since getting here, and is a 30 goal scorer in a full year. Yet Iginla is apparently the only guy that can play the top line.

This Flames team has never had a PP QB like Wideman. He may be a liability defensively but covering those types of errors is the area where J-Bo IS a great defenseman, and everyone who follows the team is pretty sure that it's gonna be a good pair.

Bartschi could get 50, maybe 60 points. He's a clutch, game breaking talent. No one knows how big he is for us this year but he's definitely a great addition.

Backlund should take a step forward. He signed a contract to prove his worth, he knows he had a bad season, wasn't given many opportunities, everything went wrong for him. Everyone is expecting an improved Backlund and rightfully so.

Brodie has been continually progressing. No one knows where he tops out but he should be a more improved player this year.

I can go on and on but there are countless areas where Flames are improving.

Also a lot of Flames prospects are underrated. Max Reinhart for example often gets called a dime a dozen player that every team has, and he'd be lucky to even make the NHL. So ignorant. Reinhart may be overshadowed by his brothers, but I'm positive that he won't just make the NHL, he's gonna be a good player. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets called up this season and makes a good showing of himself. He, or Bill Arnold, Michael Ferland, they may not be top liners but they're going to provide a lot of depth down the line.

Then there's Jankowski; let's at least wait and see what he does before we annoint him as a bust? There's a reason though why scouts love his game on first viewing, because it takes about 5 seconds to see how talented he is. But people are saying he won't even play a game without seeing this for themselves, but that's just a perfect example of the Flames ignorance that pervades this board.

Bottom line is that the roster is underrated, the prospects are underrated, the GM is underrated, everything about the Flames is underrated on this board.
So...you're basing next's years success on maybe's and what if's. Glencross is a good player, probably the best you have outside of Kipper and Iggy, but if he hasn't peaked, he's very close. You're hoping Baertschi gets 50-60 points? He could, but not many rookies do, it would be safer to hope for a 30-40 point season, and that would still have to be considered a success.

As per your other young players, I never said they are all crap or busts, but Backlund, Brodie, Arnold, etc. don't look like top line players now or in the future. It's important to have these type of players, but if you don't have the top level talent to put around them, then your team won't be good. And aside from Iginla, you have no top end talent in terms of skaters. And that includes both prospects and current roster. Feaster will likely have to build the top end of the team the same way he did this year...with free agent signings. If you look at the history of free agent signings, its not a given that they turn out, a lot end up looking bad. Wideman could easily be one of those. You say Bouwmeester will cover his mistakes, but Chara, arguably the best defenseman in the world, wasn't enough to make Wideman's defensive ineptitude look even average. Sorry Flames fans, but when you have a guy who has played for 4 other teams and all of them were happy to see him go because of defensive play, the offense simply doesn't make up for it. Especially with a defenseman.

I won't call Jankowski a bust, he's a project that will take time, but even before arriving in Calgary, did Feaster ever do even an average job of drafting? I don't know why that would suddenly change. The fact remains that aging talent and no replacements in the system is going to lead downward for the Flames. Maybe not this year, maybe not next, but as soon as Iggy and Kipper leave town, you guys are in deep, deep trouble, as those are the only two guys keeping your collective heads above water.

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08-06-2012, 03:45 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I have to say that I admire the Calgary Flames and the way they are managed.

There is no sucking for a win down the road. Every season they try to be as competitive as possible despite a lack of depth and an aging core. They are also quite loyal to the players they employ which is good.

I hate to think Columbus may be intentionally tanking for a rebuild like Edmonton and others have done. That, to me, is not the essence of the sport and I think it belittles fans that pay good money to watch their team not try to be competitive. Instead, I think teams need to try to make themselves better at EVERY opportunity, not just stockpiling young talent and hoping for a cup in 3-4 years.
Edmonton didn't tank intentionally. As sad as it is, they followed the path that the Flames are on now. Rely on two or three key pieces and plug the holes. Unfortunately for Edmonton, those key pieces either turned to vinegar or became so riddled with injuries that they weren't effective (or left town, a la Pronger). That is what led Edmonton to be a bottom feeder. When your team has to purge that many overpaid, deadweight players at the same time, and has no prospects in the system, hitting rock bottom is inevitable. It happened to Edmonton, and it looks like it is going to happen to Calgary. As much as it may seem like I'm insulting Flames fans here, I feel their pain, I went through the same thing with the Oilers. The only difference is that the Flames have Kipper (wheras the Oilers had Roloson and then nobody) and Iginla (wheras the Oilers had Hemsky on the injury shelf) to lead their team of role players and question marks.

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08-06-2012, 03:47 PM
  #84
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well then they should keep him and try to extend him for a few more yrs. The guy trains hard and should have a few more years left in the tank.
Quite simply put, the Flames absolutely need to re-sign Iginla. Have their been any talks between the Flames and him that anyone knows of? What's the word on whether he wants to re-sign or go looking for a cup? Any input from Flames fans on this front would be nice.

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08-06-2012, 03:52 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Edmonton didn't tank intentionally. As sad as it is, they followed the path that the Flames are on now. Rely on two or three key pieces and plug the holes. Unfortunately for Edmonton, those key pieces either turned to vinegar or became so riddled with injuries that they weren't effective (or left town, a la Pronger). That is what led Edmonton to be a bottom feeder. When your team has to purge that many overpaid, deadweight players at the same time, and has no prospects in the system, hitting rock bottom is inevitable. It happened to Edmonton, and it looks like it is going to happen to Calgary. As much as it may seem like I'm insulting Flames fans here, I feel their pain, I went through the same thing with the Oilers. The only difference is that the Flames have Kipper (wheras the Oilers had Roloson and then nobody) and Iginla (wheras the Oilers had Hemsky on the injury shelf) to lead their team of role players and question marks.
While they did try to acquire Heatley, there have been too few moves for a team in their position. Tambellini blew up the team but he didn't bring back players that could contribute now, he mainly went for futures. The plan was to sit on Eberle, MPS, Hall, RNH, and now Yakupov. That should not be the plan, the plan should be to make your team the best it can be for the upcoming season. I'd take finishing in the 17th spot over finishing dead last any season.

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08-06-2012, 03:52 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
They don't need to "tank" to rebuild. It's blatantly obvious that the Flames aren't talented or deep enough to win anything in the near future, and their two biggest stars are on the downside of their careers.

Those stars should be dealt for quality young assets to aid in the rebuild. Otherwise, you end up like the Leafs: perennially mediocre, and left with nothing when the star retires.
Trading away all your best assets for futures is tanking, and the only thing blatantly obvious is their need for a #1 center.


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08-06-2012, 04:02 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
While they did try to acquire Heatley, there have been too few moves for a team in their position. Tambellini blew up the team but he didn't bring back players that could contribute now, he mainly went for futures. The plan was to sit on Eberle, MPS, Hall, RNH, and now Yakupov. That should not be the plan, the plan should be to make your team the best it can be for the upcoming season. I'd take finishing in the 17th spot over finishing dead last any season.
How would you have brought back players? Free agents don't like signing with teams who have no shot at the playoffs, they prefer to sign with contenders, and considering how few free agents have been hitting the market, getting any was impossible. Tambellini blew up the team (meaning, traded the plugs and bums for whatever scraps we could get), and our prospect pool at the time was awful, so were there any trade chips that the Oil could have used to bring in good players? Show me a GM who will take spare parts from the 30th place team in exchange for top six forwards or top four defensemen, and I'll show you a GM who is getting fired shortly. The plan was to compete, but once he ended up with an all star cast that included Ethan Moreau, Patrick O'Sullivan, Ryan Putolny, Zack Stortini, etc, there really was no option other than to build through the draft. That's not tanking, that's just being a bad team. Tanking is like the Penguins of old shipping half of their NHL roster to the minors so they would lose and draft Mario Lemieux. What the Oilers did was not an intentional tank, it was building from the ground up when they had nothing left and no way of getting anything.

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08-06-2012, 04:06 PM
  #88
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Same old, same old. They'll continue to be a mediocre team until management decides on a different plan.
The problem I see with the Flames is that they have no plan. Just shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic until their two former super stars tap out.

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08-06-2012, 04:08 PM
  #89
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Feaster's going balls out looking for that #1 C, and I think he's gonna find one. He threw big money at Richards, was the runner up for Turris, so no doubt he'll be throwing big money at Getzlaf and Elias next year.

There's also always potential for a trade. Some teams have 3 top 6 centers, such as Boston. And it isn't fair for any of them to move to the wing when they're all such natural centers. Sooner than later one of them is getting pushed out and it's likely going to be Krejci. These scenarios happen often, especially with lots of high end C's being drafted lately. I'm not banking on Calgary trading with a team in a logjam, but I'm saying that there are many ways to acquire a C and Feaster will be going after any guy that's available.

Also, posters say that players don't want to come to Calgary, but that's not true. Everyone that's been traded to Calgary has always been thrilled to be here, and they're always devastated when they're traded. It's a nice city and a first class organization, which will go long way in signing players, and keeping them. You don't see anyone in Calgary running for the door but you see a lot of guys signing hometown discounts and staying loyal to the franchise, and it's the little things like that which will insure that Calgary is a top organization and always improving.

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08-06-2012, 04:11 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Trading away all your best assets for futures is tanking, and the only thing blatantly obvious is their need for a #1 center.
No, it's not.

Tanking is blowing games to gain a high draft pick.

Rebuilding is committing your team to a youth movement in an attempt to restructure the team's core to better compete in the long term. Attaining high draft picks is an added benefit of rebuilding simply because of the youth and inexperience of your new core.


Tanking rarely happens in the NHL. Rebuilding happens often, and there is nothing wrong with it. Some times there is no other choice than to rebuild.

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08-06-2012, 04:12 PM
  #91
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Feaster's going balls out looking for that #1 C, and I think he's gonna find one. He threw big money at Richards, was the runner up for Turris, so no doubt he'll be throwing big money at Getzlaf and Elias next year.

There's also always potential for a trade. Some teams have 3 top 6 centers, such as Boston. And it isn't fair for any of them to move to the wing when they're all such natural centers. Sooner than later one of them is getting pushed out and it's likely going to be Krejci. These scenarios happen often, especially with lots of high end C's being drafted lately. I'm not banking on Calgary trading with a team in a logjam, but I'm saying that there are many ways to acquire a C and Feaster will be going after any guy that's available.

Also, posters say that players don't want to come to Calgary, but that's not true. Everyone that's been traded to Calgary has always been thrilled to be here, and they're always devastated when they're traded. It's a nice city and a first class organization, which will go long way in signing players, and keeping them. You don't see anyone in Calgary running for the door but you see a lot of guys signing hometown discounts and staying loyal to the franchise, and it's the little things like that which will insure that Calgary is a top organization and always improving.
You're high off your a** if you think Elias makes it to free agency. And while Calgary will throw a huge offer at Getzlaf, 29 other teams will as well. Some of which are contenders or very close to that level, which will be very enticing for a free agent. Getzlaf did like Calgary when in junior, so its not like its one of those "I won't play in "X" city" situations, but it is still likely that he will want to play somewhere where he can win.

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08-06-2012, 04:12 PM
  #92
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No, it's not.

Tanking is blowing games to gain a high draft pick.

Rebuilding is committing your team to a youth movement in an attempt to restructure the team's core to better compete in the long term. Attaining high draft picks is an added benefit of rebuilding simply because of the youth and inexperience of your new core.


Tanking rarely happens in the NHL. Rebuilding happens often, and there is nothing wrong with it. Some times there is no other choice than to rebuild.
Amen brother!

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08-06-2012, 04:14 PM
  #93
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Edmonton didn't tank intentionally. As sad as it is, they followed the path that the Flames are on now. Rely on two or three key pieces and plug the holes. Unfortunately for Edmonton, those key pieces either turned to vinegar or became so riddled with injuries that they weren't effective (or left town, a la Pronger). That is what led Edmonton to be a bottom feeder. When your team has to purge that many overpaid, deadweight players at the same time, and has no prospects in the system, hitting rock bottom is inevitable. It happened to Edmonton, and it looks like it is going to happen to Calgary. As much as it may seem like I'm insulting Flames fans here, I feel their pain, I went through the same thing with the Oilers. The only difference is that the Flames have Kipper (wheras the Oilers had Roloson and then nobody) and Iginla (wheras the Oilers had Hemsky on the injury shelf) to lead their team of role players and question marks.
Calgary isn't relying on 2-3 pieces. I can't understand how you live just up the road and can't see this. As I said GlenX is very underrated here, Bartschi IMO will get 50 points, even though you have conservative projections, either way few people think that he won't be an impact player, and sooner than later. Giordano hasn't been mentioned but he's another underrated guy, and one of Calgary's heart and soul players. Every team in the league would pay a lot for him. Also Tanguay has been productive since returning to Calgary.

It certainly does seem like you're insulting Flames fans here, because you're not giving the team close to the amount of credit that they deserve.

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08-06-2012, 04:15 PM
  #94
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I know I already said this...

But their proud to select Nathan MacKinnon

But Baertschi will probably do well on their team, him and Iginla

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08-06-2012, 04:18 PM
  #95
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You're high off your a** if you think Elias makes it to free agency. And while Calgary will throw a huge offer at Getzlaf, 29 other teams will as well. Some of which are contenders or very close to that level, which will be very enticing for a free agent. Getzlaf did like Calgary when in junior, so its not like its one of those "I won't play in "X" city" situations, but it is still likely that he will want to play somewhere where he can win.
Yeah and if he reads HFBoards he might get convinced that he can't win in Calgary, but I doubt he's a poster here.

Calgary's a 9th place team without a #1C, not even a #2C, so how is it that they still wouldn't be competitive if they filled their biggest hole? What you're saying doesn't even make sense.

And maybe Getzlaf wants to go to a team where he would be the difference. You assume too much about the guy.

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08-06-2012, 04:20 PM
  #96
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Calgary isn't relying on 2-3 pieces. I can't understand how you live just up the road and can't see this. As I said GlenX is very underrated here, Bartschi IMO will get 50 points, even though you have conservative projections, either way few people think that he won't be an impact player, and sooner than later. Giordano hasn't been mentioned but he's another underrated guy, and one of Calgary's heart and soul players. Every team in the league would pay a lot for him. Also Tanguay has been productive since returning to Calgary.

It certainly does seem like you're insulting Flames fans here, because you're not giving the team close to the amount of credit that they deserve.
Without Kipper and Iginla, they are easily a lottery team. They have decent support pieces, like I already admitted to, but they only have those two pieces that are difference makers. You're listing quality players, I have nothing negative at all to say about Giordano, Glencross, Baertschi, etc, but they are depth players. Baertschi may end up a stud, he certainly looks that way, but to expect 50 points from him is setting yourself up for disappointment. Any team who is hoping/expecting playoffs doesn't have a rookie pencilled in as one of their best scorers unless that guy is a generational talent, and as good as Baertschi is, he's not on that level.

And for the record, I can't see it because its not there. What would happen to Calgary if Iginla gets hurt and Kipper has a bad year? 15th in the West most likely. They'll still be where they are every year, 8th - 11th, but they certainly aren't a real threat coming in unless the stars align perfectly.

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08-06-2012, 04:23 PM
  #97
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Yeah and if he reads HFBoards he might get convinced that he can't win in Calgary, but I doubt he's a poster here.

Calgary's a 9th place team without a #1C, not even a #2C, so how is it that they still wouldn't be competitive if they filled their biggest hole? What you're saying doesn't even make sense.

And maybe Getzlaf wants to go to a team where he would be the difference. You assume too much about the guy.
Not to split hairs, but Calgary was a 9th place team with a #2C as a #1 C. Now they have #3 C's as #1 and #2 C's. Its not just an HF opinion bud, free agents seem to either follow a huge stack of cash, or follow the desire to win. Getzlaf seems like the latter to me. Contenders are almost always the winners in the free agent game. And that's not a team that might be a contender if that guy goes there, that's teams that are already a contender and the guy going there can put them over the top.

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08-06-2012, 04:28 PM
  #98
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So...you're basing next's years success on maybe's and what if's. Glencross is a good player, probably the best you have outside of Kipper and Iggy, but if he hasn't peaked, he's very close. You're hoping Baertschi gets 50-60 points? He could, but not many rookies do, it would be safer to hope for a 30-40 point season, and that would still have to be considered a success.

As per your other young players, I never said they are all crap or busts, but Backlund, Brodie, Arnold, etc. don't look like top line players now or in the future. It's important to have these type of players, but if you don't have the top level talent to put around them, then your team won't be good. And aside from Iginla, you have no top end talent in terms of skaters. And that includes both prospects and current roster. Feaster will likely have to build the top end of the team the same way he did this year...with free agent signings. If you look at the history of free agent signings, its not a given that they turn out, a lot end up looking bad. Wideman could easily be one of those. You say Bouwmeester will cover his mistakes, but Chara, arguably the best defenseman in the world, wasn't enough to make Wideman's defensive ineptitude look even average. Sorry Flames fans, but when you have a guy who has played for 4 other teams and all of them were happy to see him go because of defensive play, the offense simply doesn't make up for it. Especially with a defenseman.

I won't call Jankowski a bust, he's a project that will take time, but even before arriving in Calgary, did Feaster ever do even an average job of drafting? I don't know why that would suddenly change. The fact remains that aging talent and no replacements in the system is going to lead downward for the Flames. Maybe not this year, maybe not next, but as soon as Iggy and Kipper leave town, you guys are in deep, deep trouble, as those are the only two guys keeping your collective heads above water.
Chara is better than J-Bo at most things but when it comes to skating back and covering partners mistakes, that's the type of the thing that J-Bo is elite at, like it or not. The guy has his holes but he plays 2 on 1's as good as anyone in the league. That's why he's the perfect guy to cover for Wideman.

You're saying Bartschi isn't a top end talent, it's hard to argue with a guy who's being so unreasonable.

As for Feaster, he isn't doing much drafting in Calgary. Calgary's drafting has really turned around since before he got here. And it's not that we overhype guys like Arnold, Gaudreau, Ferland and Broissoit, it's moreso that Flames fans are amazed at how all these guys that we're getting in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds are vastly exceeding expectations. We're consistently getting guys in the later rounds who look like they can be really good players. If that trend continues, that's something that will carry this team a really long way. Flames apparently did really well in the 2012 draft as well; Calgary was considered lucky to pick their guys where they were. We'll know next year but the way Calgary has been drafting, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them exceed expectations as well. Flames fans recognize this and that's why we have faith in the organization and the direction that they're going in.


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08-06-2012, 04:30 PM
  #99
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
No, it's not.

Tanking is blowing games to gain a high draft pick.

Rebuilding is committing your team to a youth movement in an attempt to restructure the team's core to better compete in the long term. Attaining high draft picks is an added benefit of rebuilding simply because of the youth and inexperience of your new core.


Tanking rarely happens in the NHL. Rebuilding happens often, and there is nothing wrong with it. Some times there is no other choice than to rebuild.
Take another second to think about it.

When management decides to trade their best players for futures, management is tanking. The players could play their best but it'll be all for nothing when the those players suck, or aren't as good enough as the ones you traded. That train of thought is the silliest thing this board has going for it.

Also, every team rebuilds, they do it at the draft, just the teams that aren't committed to winning in the present do it with higher picks. Management who isn't committed to winning so that a top selection falls onto their lap are pathetic. I wouldn't mind seeing teams relegated to stop that sort of 'cheating' from happening.

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Old
08-06-2012, 04:37 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Take another second to think about it.

When management decides to trade their best players for futures, management is tanking. The players could play their best but it'll be all for nothing when the those players suck, or aren't as good enough as the ones you traded. That train of thought is the silliest thing this board has going for it.

Also, every team rebuilds, they do it at the draft, just the teams that aren't committed to winning in the present do it with higher picks. Management who isn't committed to winning so that a top selection falls onto their lap are pathetic. I wouldn't mind seeing teams relegated to stop that sort of 'cheating' from happening.
Not every team is rebuilding at the draft. Teams are building, but the only ones rebuilding are the ones commonly labelled as "tankers" by smart guys on the interwebs. I would like someone to honestly show how any recent lottery teams weren't at least trying to be competitive. Go ahead. You can't do it, because it doesn't happen.

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