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08-05-2012, 01:46 AM
  #201
Chubros
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Originally Posted by arttk View Post
He made a gamble and he won, PERIOD. You can ***** all you want but at the end of a day he won his bet and that is that. You can bring up what could have hypothetically happen but then that doesn't really change the current reality does it?
This makes it sound like Gillis was betting on Sundin only accepting a one-year deal, which is ridiculous. If he offered 2 years at $20M, he did so in hopes of Sundin accepting. Had this happened, it pretty much would have been impossible to keep the Sedins. That, combined with how close Gillis let them get to walking indicates that he did not fully appreciate their value when he took over this team.

Gillis simply lucked out when Sundin didn't accept the two-year deal. It was not a good bet. He then only realized at the last possible moment how important the Sedins were to this team. I still wish that he had signed them to retirement contracts rather than Luongo. Those guys' deals will expire in a couple of years and the team could either lose them or be put in a difficult position cap-wise.

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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
It makes it a non-issue, clearly.

Getting upset over something that didn't happen is silly.
It makes one question Gillis's judgement. Hopefully that was just him trying to make a name for himself as a green GM. He has made some poor moves since then but also some good ones. The jury is still out on Gillis, in my mind.

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08-05-2012, 01:48 AM
  #202
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I think he had a dreadful playoff, and an awful final stretch of the season, but I've always felt that he was even worse/hopeless fit with the Sedins and was never going to be a viable option defensively. I probably sound more hard on him than I actually am because Canuck fans seem to excuse him of blame for some reason and it annoys me. He played significantly worse than Raymond in the playoffs.

But there were definitely some moments early on where he clicked with the second line and looked like he and Kesler could work up some potential for chemistry. He wasn't exactly doing nothing when the AMEX line was firing on all cylinders. At some point, Kesler's going to have get better to, and who knows how that will effect Booth's play.

I actually think that so far, he's shown the most chemistry with Higgins and Hodgson, so maybe adding a puck distributor would help him.
That's a fair enough assessment.

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08-05-2012, 01:58 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
I did say it was a $10 million contract that was pro-rated didn't I?


Problem was the 2nd year that if Sundin was greedy; could've taken it and that would've been a problem for the following season.
It's an 8.2 million dollar "pro rated" contract. not 10 million.

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08-05-2012, 03:29 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Chubros View Post
This makes it sound like Gillis was betting on Sundin only accepting a one-year deal, which is ridiculous. If he offered 2 years at $20M, he did so in hopes of Sundin accepting. Had this happened, it pretty much would have been impossible to keep the Sedins. That, combined with how close Gillis let them get to walking indicates that he did not fully appreciate their value when he took over this team.

Gillis simply lucked out when Sundin didn't accept the two-year deal. It was not a good bet. He then only realized at the last possible moment how important the Sedins were to this team. I still wish that he had signed them to retirement contracts rather than Luongo. Those guys' deals will expire in a couple of years and the team could either lose them or be put in a difficult position cap-wise.



It makes one question Gillis's judgement. Hopefully that was just him trying to make a name for himself as a green GM. He has made some poor moves since then but also some good ones. The jury is still out on Gillis, in my mind.
It was rumored that Sundin wasn't even sure if he wanted to come back let alone take a two year deal.
As much as you think you know, only so much information is out in the public domain. Have you had a talk to JP Berry ever? I am not sure but I would guess that he probably had talks with him about Sundin before throwing him an offer. So yes you can argue he gambled, but he probably made that gamble with info that none of us will ever have access to. How do you judge his decision making skills when you don't even have a clue what kind of info is available to him.
The result is he got sundIn at 1 year at a lower rate and he contributed to kes and the twins growth. Oh and he also signed them to pretty sweet deals as well and as a fan results like that matter more that hypothetical bs situations that happened on an alternate universe.

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08-05-2012, 03:54 PM
  #205
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At the very worst, It might be reason to be skeptical about his abilities as a GM going forward, but it's absolutely asinine to actually complain about it.

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08-06-2012, 04:19 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
It's an 8.2 million dollar "pro rated" contract. not 10 million.
It was technically, but he also missed a bunch of games after he signed his contract that coincidentally made it about a $10 million contract when he finally started playing.

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08-06-2012, 05:05 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
It was technically, but he also missed a bunch of games after he signed his contract that coincidentally made it about a $10 million contract when he finally started playing.
No, and that's not what he's saying. He's saying that the contract was $8.2 million and THAT amount was pro-rated to the number of games Sundin played, so the actual amount paid was a portion of $8.2 million, not a portion of $10 million.

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08-06-2012, 06:39 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Chubros View Post
This makes it sound like Gillis was betting on Sundin only accepting a one-year deal, which is ridiculous. If he offered 2 years at $20M, he did so in hopes of Sundin accepting. Had this happened, it pretty much would have been impossible to keep the Sedins. That, combined with how close Gillis let them get to walking indicates that he did not fully appreciate their value when he took over this team.

Gillis simply lucked out when Sundin didn't accept the two-year deal. It was not a good bet. He then only realized at the last possible moment how important the Sedins were to this team. I still wish that he had signed them to retirement contracts rather than Luongo. Those guys' deals will expire in a couple of years and the team could either lose them or be put in a difficult position cap-wise.



It makes one question Gillis's judgement. Hopefully that was just him trying to make a name for himself as a green GM. He has made some poor moves since then but also some good ones. The jury is still out on Gillis, in my mind.
For Sundin, it depends on how you value his integrity. Would he have signed a 2 year deal, knowing what the salary cap implications would be and then not return to play the 2nd year?

For the twins, I don't see them getting massive raises over what they are making now (ie. $8 million in real money a season over the remaining years of their career). They are UFA in 2014. They will be 33 in July 2014, turning 34 later in the year. At that, it's realistic to expect that their peak has been reached and seen. Just a matter of how long you believe that they can maintain their level of play.

If the twins don't put up big points, they don't offer much else. (PK, checking, physical play, etc.) $6.1 million per season has been a very good deal for the Canucks. When their deal comes up, it's going to come down to term. Doan's agent is tossing out 4 year terms for a soon to be 36 year old. Will the twins be looking for 5 year deals when their deals are up, taking them to age 38, just a few months short of their 39th birthdays?

That would depend on the play of Kesler, Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Shroeder, Rodin, etc. down the line (or whomever else they bring in over that time to put up points), to determine if the twins are worth the money still or whether they need to move in a different direction.

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08-06-2012, 07:36 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
No, and that's not what he's saying. He's saying that the contract was $8.2 million and THAT amount was pro-rated to the number of games Sundin played, so the actual amount paid was a portion of $8.2 million, not a portion of $10 million.
I know what he was saying. Sundin was paid $5 million in actual salary when he played for the Canucks, which gave him an $8.2 million annualized cap hit. But he signed that contract on December 18 and didn't start playing until January 7. In that time, he missed 9 games, and only played in 41 of the team's games, and so he was paid $5 million for half a season.

So while it was technically a $8.2 million contract that was pro-rated, it was pro-rated to the date he signed, not the date he started playing. For all intents and purposes, it was a $10 million contract based on the games he actually played (and probably knew he would play).

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08-06-2012, 07:54 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I know what he was saying. Sundin was paid $5 million in actual salary when he played for the Canucks, which gave him an $8.2 million annualized cap hit. But he signed that contract on December 18 and didn't start playing until January 7. In that time, he missed 9 games, and only played in 41 of the team's games, and so he was paid $5 million for half a season.

So while it was technically a $8.2 million contract that was pro-rated, it was pro-rated to the date he signed, not the date he started playing. For all intents and purposes, it was a $10 million contract based on the games he actually played (and probably knew he would play).
Well, if you're going to be THAT technical about it, why not also include his playoff performance? Gillis got good value, seems pretty clear to me.

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08-07-2012, 03:34 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Well, if you're going to be THAT technical about it, why not also include his playoff performance? Gillis got good value, seems pretty clear to me.
Because nobody counts salary for the playoffs?

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08-07-2012, 08:48 AM
  #212
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Because nobody counts salary for the playoffs?

Seems more logical than counting time Sundin didn't play and that we didn't pay for...

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08-07-2012, 09:09 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Seems more logical than counting time Sundin didn't play and that we didn't pay for...
Guess Salo wasn't such a hot deal then.

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08-07-2012, 03:42 PM
  #214
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Sundin is going into the HOF this year. I'm not exactly sure why this is being discussed at all. This is old news. Sure he would have and could have but didn't take the initial offer that was proposed to him. Gillis had no other GM experience at the time and is probably happy this inital offer wasn't accepted by Sundin cause it would have handcuffed us when it came to signing the twins the following year. Every manager has areas they can improve and better themselves in with the ever changing finances of the game. As a rookie GM coming into a team that expected to make the playoffs every season he has done a masterful job, especially changing the polluted culture that was here with the last 2 regimes. Bringing in Gilman was such a savy move, why Gilman isn't a GM in this league by now is beyond me.

Arnott is a nice stop gap till Kesler gets back weather it be on the 2nd or 3rd line is up for debate and production come camp.


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(Wake up Toronto)


Last edited by KidCanuck*: 08-07-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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08-07-2012, 04:25 PM
  #215
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2 years $20 million for Arnott.

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08-07-2012, 04:36 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God View Post
Because nobody counts salary for the playoffs?
So? A player must be signed to a contract by the trade deadline to be eligible for the playoffs. You aren't going to get a guy like Sundin walking on the team for free to play in the playoffs and nothing else.

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