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PK and the Habs: far from a deal

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Old
08-06-2012, 11:03 PM
  #251
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Stop trying to justify multi-million $ earning athletes. It's the way it is and it's OK. But plz don't brag that their lifestyle should be comparable to other rich powerful people and that's necessary for them, just as much as breathing air and drinking clean water. Most good CFL players are paid barely more than the upper-middle class and same for MLS players and you don't see them waiting in line for food at a church on sunday mornings. I'm not saying give him 75 000$ for the next season and if he doesn't accept he's a capitalist flesh eating vampire, he's just not worth more than 3/3.5 M$ for the moment and if he doesn't realize that he's overestimating himself and anyone that believes the same is also overestimating him. He played only two seasons and still does lots of costly mistakes.
Hab fans seem to be willing to pay anything to retain Subban. We all value Subban highly but most NHL GMs probably think he shouldn't be paid as much as Erik Karlsson, for example.

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08-06-2012, 11:15 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by SnapVirus View Post
HAHAHAHA 300K enough for the rest of your life?

Dude I'm making 200K a year and if one year i'd do less tha 150K I'd be screwed.

300K isn't even a house god damnit. What are you talking about?
I wish I understood what you're saying, There seems to be a disconnect between your income and your ability to express yourself.

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08-06-2012, 11:23 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's not my world man. I just gave out some examples that I could think of but there's no doubt more. The point is simply that the cost of living will be higher among pro athletes. They compete against other pro athletes who also invest their savings into themselves and set a standard that other athletes and celebrities have to live up to.

Personally I'd rather lock up Subban long-term. He was our no.1 D last year and will be no less than no. 2 going forward. He's part of our core. A lot of people don't like him based on "feeling" or whatever but the stats demonstrate his excellence. I think 6 years, 4.5 million, or approximately that is in the best interests of the team.

Price and Gorges had not proven themselves when they signed their second contract. Subban is much, much further in development than they were at that time. Pacioretty should be locked up long-term sometime in 2013.
Erik Karlsson has shown enough to warrant a big salary. IMO Subban isn't quite there yet, although I suspect he'll be there eventually. In the meantime, it's just as unwise to overpay a young player scarcely out of the minors as it is a veteran.

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08-06-2012, 11:31 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Bring yourself back to Earth my friend.

Every employee regardless of profession is paid their relative market value. To call professional athletes overpaid is both ignorant and absolutely incorrect. Do you really believe that the owners should pocket all of the revenues and pay the players $40.00/hr. Well then I guess the owners are overpaid.......

The NHL creates huge revenues which are divided between ownership and players through a negotiated CBA.

If you want to look for people who are overpaid you won't have to look any further than your local government or hospital CEO. These are mainly borderline criminals who pilfer public funds through shady backroom deals and self serving interests that undermine the intended goal of their employment.
Are you accusing all local officials and hospital CEOs of criminality? If they make so much money through shady deals then their salaries aren't the main source of their incomes.

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08-06-2012, 11:51 PM
  #255
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This is a hockey forum. Cut out the CEO Salary crap.

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08-07-2012, 12:22 AM
  #256
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Hab fans seem to be willing to pay anything to retain Subban. We all value Subban highly but most NHL GMs probably think he shouldn't be paid as much as Erik Karlsson, for example.
Agreed.

Subban is being talked about as though he is a legitimate #1 D. He may get there one day but he has a ways to go yet.

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08-07-2012, 03:35 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Agreed.

Subban is being talked about as though he is a legitimate #1 D. He may get there one day but he has a ways to go yet.
Name the 30 defenseman that are better than him in the NHL.
And remember to not include players who once were or may become better; only those whom are better NOW.

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Old
08-07-2012, 03:41 AM
  #258
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I think they should offer Subban a 6 yr 30 mil contract. 5 mil per.

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08-07-2012, 04:09 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
This is a hockey forum. Cut out the CEO Salary crap.
y u h8 capitalism?

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Old
08-07-2012, 04:50 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by JMMR View Post
Name the 30 defenseman that are better than him in the NHL.
And remember to not include players who once were or may become better; only those whom are better NOW.
I get what you mean but I hate that logic. Just because there aren't 30 goalies in the league who are better than say, Curtis Sanford, doesn't mean Curtis Sanford is by definition a #1 goalie

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08-07-2012, 05:14 AM
  #261
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This is a hockey forum. Cut out the CEO Salary crap.
Isn't saying crap against the rules?

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08-07-2012, 07:45 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Joey View Post
I get what you mean but I hate that logic. Just because there aren't 30 goalies in the league who are better than say, Curtis Sanford, doesn't mean Curtis Sanford is by definition a #1 goalie
Dude... That's exactly thé definition... 30 teams, 30 #1 goalies... It he's top 30, he's a #1.

Only thing this show is that YOU have unrealistic expectations.

#1 goalie =/= superstar goalie

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08-07-2012, 08:28 AM
  #263
Bob Lemoche
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Subban is already top 15 (top 20 minimum) in the league.

He's as complete a defenseman as you can ask for considering his age.

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08-07-2012, 09:14 AM
  #264
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Can anyone name 30 defenseman better than Subban?

Further, he is at worst a 1st pairing dman who isn't a no. 1 dman. Can anyone name 60 defenseman better than Subban?

No.

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08-07-2012, 09:56 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Bob Lemoche View Post
Subban is already top 15 (top 20 minimum) in the league.

He's as complete a defenseman as you can ask for considering his age.
Subban is a #1 D-man but one with a peculiar skill set if you had to compare him with other #1s.

And, since his agent and Subban himself acknowledged that he is a #1, a long-term deal will have to take the fact that he is a #1 in account. So I fully expect him to get Myers money, or somewhere between $5-6M, perhaps more.

You can barely get a #3 long-term with some offense (#2 if a shutdown D-man) for $4M nowadays.

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08-07-2012, 09:59 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
The last one was Markov in 98. Before that, Chelios in 81. Seriously, drafting #1 dmen who play on the top unit in every situation, who regularly outperform the opposition's best, doesn't happen often.
Are we just pretending that Eric Desjardins and Matheiu Schneider don't exist?

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08-07-2012, 10:05 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Gainey's policy was not to negotiate with players during the season. That's how we got burned with UFAs leaving for nothing over and over again. Sourray, Streit, Koivu, Kovalev, Komisarek, etc.

It wasn't Gauthier's policy, and there's no reason to think it's Bergevin's policy.
Three of those five UFA's were not even offered contracts, so how exactly did Montreal get "burned" when they left?

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08-07-2012, 10:09 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Three of those five UFA's were not even offered contracts, so how exactly did Montreal get "burned" when they left?
It's better to trade players at the deadline than to lose them for nothing.

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08-07-2012, 10:09 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Are we just pretending that Eric Desjardins and Matheiu Schneider don't exist?
They're not number 1 dman. Never were. Just good.

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08-07-2012, 10:21 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's better to trade players at the deadline than to lose them for nothing.
No, it's better to back into the playoffs with a **** roster and cross our fingers to win just one game as the 8th seed. #bobsledgainey

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Old
08-07-2012, 10:26 AM
  #271
FerrisRox
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's better to trade players at the deadline than to lose them for nothing.
...Which has nothing to do with Gainey not negotiating extensions with them during the season.

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08-07-2012, 10:28 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
They're not number 1 dman. Never were. Just good.
Eric Desjardins was a #1 defenseman for well over a decade, and, in fact, was a #1 defenseman on a Cup winning team and the #1 defenseman on another Cup Finalist team.

Mathieu Schneider served as #1 defenseman in Montreal after Desjardins was traded, in Long Island and in Toronto.

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08-07-2012, 10:34 AM
  #273
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I do believe Subban will sign long term, but for fun, what could he bring in if we trade him to Philly?
They failed on Weber, and now Meszjaros is out for the year (or almost)

Couturier +?

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08-07-2012, 10:36 AM
  #274
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
...Which has nothing to do with Gainey not negotiating extensions with them during the season.
Actually it does.

Gainey rarely negotiated with UFAs during the season. He ended up reacting to what the UFAs wanted in June/July. It's better for GMs to decide in February if they want to keep those players long-term.

For example, with Sheldon Sourray, Gainey offered him a contract in June and then learned that he didn't want to come back, in June. Had he offered the contract in February, he would have learned Sourray didn't want to come back in February, and then gotten a gold mine, and then still would have been able to get Roman Hamrlik.

If you have an impending UFA who is valuable, you should decide if you wan t to kleep him in February. Gauthier did this last year. He didn't want to keep Kostitsyn and Gill long-term, that's fine, so he traded them.

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08-07-2012, 12:03 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
They're not number 1 dman. Never were. Just good.
Desjardins was top 10 in Norris voting 3 times, top 5 twice. I would say that qualifies as a number 1 dman

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