when would you suggest? They are either playing in the NHL or sitting in the press box this year. They are as ready as they will ever be.
I would rather see Simon Despres have a spot on the roster, Brian Strait could be a scratch and Robert Bortuzzo could play in the AHL again for one more year they'll both get some playing time with the pens if injuries occur.
Wouldn't you want pk for some draft picks? Im pretty sure he would cost more than Kennedy or a combo of Kennedy and other spare parts. I think it'd be a brilliant move for Holmgren. He offer sheeted weber and no team offer sheeted voracek. So it didn't really bite him in the butt
No, I wouldn't want Subban for some draft picks ... at least not on the Pens. The kid not only gets under opposing player's skin, he gets to his team mates, too. He's dropped the gloves with team mates in practice at least twice. There were reports that the front office had different guys try to talk to him about his attitude and that he more or less blew them off. He still needs to mature on and off the ice. MT may just be the coach he needs at this point in his career ... but right now, his potential doesn't make the known risks worth it.
As for the Flyers, he'd probably fit right in. But I doubt Holmgren would be willing to make another ridiculous offer sheet a la Weber for an unproven player like Subban, so most likely the Habs would match. And, the Habs want to hold on to Subban. He does have great potential, but he has a lot of issues. Like I said, MT might just be the coach he needs.
There should never be a pre-season lineup that has Engo out from the 6 standard defenders. He's better than Strait and Bort right now. He had one of the more consistent seasons of any of the defense last year.
Is he though?
More accomplished? Yes. More seniority? Sure. Paid his dues, played well, and probably deserves first crack at the position? Absolutely.
Better hockey player? I disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines
I would rather see Simon Despres have a spot on the roster, Brian Strait could be a scratch and Robert Bortuzzo could play in the AHL again for one more year they'll both get some playing time with the pens if injuries occur.
Bortuzzo and Strait are both subject to waivers. If either one gets sent down, they will get picked up and we will lose them for nothing.
Despres can get sent back and forth with no risk whatsoever.
I would rather see Simon Despres have a spot on the roster, Brian Strait could be a scratch and Robert Bortuzzo could play in the AHL again for one more year they'll both get some playing time with the pens if injuries occur.
I'd rather Despres too. But that's not because I don't trust Strait or Bortuzzo, it's because Despres has higher potential than either and could potentially make Martin or Niskanen expendable. I honestly think we'll have 8D on the roster to start the year. Might even dress 7 on occasion.
And no, neither Strait nor Bortuzzo can play in the AHL again. There's no chance either makes it through waivers.
No, I wouldn't want Subban for some draft picks ... at least not on the Pens. The kid not only gets under opposing player's skin, he gets to his team mates, too. He's dropped the gloves with team mates in practice at least twice. There were reports that the front office had different guys try to talk to him about his attitude and that he more or less blew them off. He still needs to mature on and off the ice. MT may just be the coach he needs at this point in his career ... but right now, his potential doesn't make the known risks worth it.
As for the Flyers, he'd probably fit right in. But I doubt Holmgren would be willing to make another ridiculous offer sheet a la Weber for an unproven player like Subban, so most likely the Habs would match. And, the Habs want to hold on to Subban. He does have great potential, but he has a lot of issues. Like I said, MT might just be the coach he needs.
Have to disagree on Subban. There's no way we get him so it doesn't really matter, but if it was somehow possible for a reasonable price then we would have to do it. He'd instantly be our 2nd best d-man by a pretty wide margin.
More accomplished? Yes. More seniority? Sure. Paid his dues, played well, and probably deserves first crack at the position? Absolutely.
Better hockey player? I disagree.
Bortuzzo and Strait are both subject to waivers. If either one gets sent down, they will get picked up and we will lose them for nothing.
Despres can get sent back and forth with no risk whatsoever.
Taking into consideration team needs on defense - a bigger/physical tough defender... I'd say he's more of a need than Strait or Bort. It would suck to lose those 2 for free,but I can't believe that Engo isn't the best option at #6.
The Flyers going after Yandle makes sense and they have the assets to get him.
Just to throw it out there... what do you guys think about getting Gonch back? The Pens have the cap room and he can still be a good #4-5 defenseman that gets a lot of PP duty. Then when he retires keep him on that bench. Not only do I think he has a great hockey mind but he seems like a 1st class person too.
Yes, please ... I'm all for giving the kids a chance, but if we're bringing in a vet, I would love for it to be Sarge.
Have to disagree on Subban. There's no way we get him so it doesn't really matter, but if it was somehow possible for a reasonable price then we would have to do it. He'd instantly be our 2nd best d-man by a pretty wide margin.
I'm not knocking his potential ... I'm knocking his attitude. Maybe in a couple of years when he's matured, when it's clearer as to whether that attitude has hindered his development or not. But right now? We have plenty of players with the same or similar potential who won't be getting into fist fights with their team mates in practice. It's not his potential that's the issue for me ... it's all the other stuff that comes with him that makes me feel it's not worth the risk. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
There should never be a pre-season lineup that has Engo out from the 6 standard defenders. He's better than Strait and Bort right now. He had one of the more consistent seasons of any of the defense last year.
I disagree. Engelland is 30 years old with very little upside. Strait & Bortuzzo are much younger with plenty of room to grow. The only thing that Engelland brings that the other two don't is his fighting skills which is becoming less and less important in the NHL. If we need a goon to sit in the penalty box for 10 minutes we are better off bring up MacIntyre.
I'd rather Despres too. But that's not because I don't trust Strait or Bortuzzo, it's because Despres has higher potential than either and could potentially make Martin or Niskanen expendable. I honestly think we'll have 8D on the roster to start the year. Might even dress 7 on occasion.
And no, neither Strait nor Bortuzzo can play in the AHL again. There's no chance either makes it through waivers.
Bortuzzo, Strait and Dustin Jeffery will be scratches then.
And Engelland doesn't have the potential, nor the skill that Bortuzzo or Strait has. If Strait and Bortuzzo are ready, they should be given a shot, and at the very least, be given 40 games a piece. They represent the future of this blueline, and they have room to be better than they already are. Bortuzzo can play physical, can clear the front of the net, and bring that dimension that we need from Engelland. He's just not going to be taking on heavyweights like Engelland can.
We have to start to develop these guys, and give them the opportunities they earn. Engelland is great for his role, but never should a 6-7 defenseman stand between an early 20's guy with potential and a roster spot.
Bortuzzo, Strait and Dustin Jeffery will be scratches then.
I really wouldn't be suprised at all to see Strait or Bortuzzo beat out Engelland for a bottom spot. And if Despres is sent down Engelland could be in the pressbox. I truely believe Strait and Bortuzzo should be in the lineup over Engelland on most nights.
You know, I've been a pretty staunch Martin supporter ... but I'd pull the trigger on moving him for Gonchar, no problem.
I actually like Martin too. I just think he'll eventually be the odd man out. I've said it a few times, he won't be moved because we want him gone. He'll be moved because he is the most valuable piece we can replace from within. And he won't be moved until we know we can comfortably replace him from within.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines
Bortuzzo, Strait and Dustin Jeffery will be scratches then.
That's what I expect ya. I'd love to see us play 7D occasionally if we ever actually have 8 healthy D-men. Especially in games where Engo is expecting to fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG
And Engelland doesn't have the potential, nor the skill that Bortuzzo or Strait has. If Strait and Bortuzzo are ready, they should be given a shot, and at the very least, be given 40 games a piece. They represent the future of this blueline, and they have room to be better than they already are. Bortuzzo can play physical, can clear the front of the net, and bring that dimension that we need from Engelland. He's just not going to be taking on heavyweights like Engelland can.
We have to start to develop these guys, and give them the opportunities they earn. Engelland is great for his role, but never should a 6-7 defenseman stand between an early 20's guy with potential and a roster spot.
I think people vastly underrate both young guys.
If they outplay Engelland then I agree. If not you keep Engelland in. There will be injuries throughout the season. There always are.
Huge Engo supporter. IMO he can play the tough, defensive partner of a 2nd pairing with some pretty good PK ability. Beside his toughness and willingness to block a shot with his face, he has the sense to know his limitations and has become a pretty good skater. That sense reminds me of Bobby Boughner or a Ken Daneyko.
I actually like a defense thats built...
Orpik- Letang
Engo- Martin
Despres- Nisky
or
Martin- Letang
Orpik- Niksy
Gonchar- Engo
Huge Engo supporter. IMO he can play the tough, defensive partner of a 2nd pairing with some pretty good PK ability. Beside his toughness and willingness to block a shot with his face, he has the sense to know his limitations and has become a pretty good skater. That sense reminds me of Bobby Boughner or a Ken Daneyko.
I actually like a defense thats built...
Orpik- Letang
Engo- Martin
Despres- Nisky
or
Martin- Letang
Orpik- Niksy
Gonchar- Engo
If Engomeister could develop into a d-man that can handle top-4 minutes I'm all for this post
Not sure how some can be so comfortable going with either Strait, Lovejoy or Bortuzzo playing full time. Martin had a terrible year, and then the injury rumors came out, let's give the guy a chance before moving him for what, cap space?
Forget Lovejoy. It's Despres, Strait, Bortuzzo or Dumoulin. And honestly during the regular season I would love to see 2 of them have spots. We would still make the playoffs regardless. But we need to get the kids some icetime or we're going to lose them.
The Flyers going after Yandle makes sense and they have the assets to get him.
Just to throw it out there... what do you guys think about getting Gonch back? The Pens have the cap room and he can still be a good #4-5 defenseman that gets a lot of PP duty. Then when he retires keep him on that bench. Not only do I think he has a great hockey mind but he seems like a 1st class person too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens
Not against this ONE bit. He would be great on our powerplay and we can limit his time. More of a deadline deal if Ottawa struggles.
Agreed with Cole on this, having Gonchar for the complete season might not be that great of an idea. Deadline move, i'm ok with it
