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Free Agent Talk (Part XIV): Semin to Carolina; Doan still thinking

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Old
08-07-2012, 03:44 PM
  #951
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Nothing on the record, but a well-placed source advises that as soon as it was clear that Doan’s camp was looking for a four-year deal, the Sharks bowed out of the bidding.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/sharks/...s-do-shape-up/

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08-07-2012, 03:59 PM
  #952
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4 years at that type of money is bad news. Just walk away and try and bring in a depth #5/6 d-man.

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08-07-2012, 04:00 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
If Boyle were a good fighter, I think this argument goes away. I get the feeling that because he isn't a beast out there, people are always wanting to get rid of the guy.

Maybe he isn't a consistent 20 goal scorer, but I also think he's better than the 11 he scored last year. Split the difference and I think he could be a 15 goal, 30 point center who takes faceoffs, is a strong defender and generally serves his roll as a third line center. Essentially he's a less physical Joel Otto.
I'm not seeing the skills needed to be a consistent 30+ point scoring center.

I don't think he has the shot needed for it. I don't think he has the hands for it and I know he doesn't have the vision for it.

He fluked his way to a 21 goal season. Kudos to him for it. I highly doubt we see another 30 point season from Boyle and that is going to hurt this team as it still puts pressure on the top 6 to produce more often than they should have to.

As for the fighting comment, I wouldn't go that far. If he wound up knocking smaller players to the ice more than he gets knocked to the ice by smaller players I would ease up on him a bit. A guy his size should never get outmuscled by guys that are alot smaller than he is and that happens every game.

15+ goals and 20+ assists from Boyle and I am a happy camper.

Unfortunately for me, I will not be happy as long as Boyle mans the 3rd line center position because he is not producing those numbers

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08-07-2012, 04:05 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm not seeing the skills needed to be a consistent 30+ point scoring center.

I don't think he has the shot needed for it. I don't think he has the hands for it and I know he doesn't have the vision for it.

He fluked his way to a 21 goal season. Kudos to him for it. I highly doubt we see another 30 point season from Boyle and that is going to hurt this team as it still puts pressure on the top 6 to produce more often than they should have to.

As for the fighting comment, I wouldn't go that far. If he wound up knocking smaller players to the ice more than he gets knocked to the ice by smaller players I would ease up on him a bit. A guy his size should never get outmuscled by guys that are alot smaller than he is and that happens every game.

15+ goals and 20+ assists from Boyle and I am a happy camper.

Unfortunately for me, I will not be happy as long as Boyle mans the 3rd line center position because he is not producing those numbers
Thats it huh? 15 goals/20 assists and youre just fine and dandy? Thats an interesting way of evaluating a player - especially in the bottom 6.

Boyle playing the majority of his ice time against the oppositions top forwards means nothing to you? No value whatsoever in that?

Geez, you people have no idea what you want, but you certainly seem to know what you dont want.

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08-07-2012, 04:17 PM
  #955
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#CBA Daly said two sides have found significant common ground on the non-core economic issues discussed recently
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...47466876633088

That's the easy stuff. Pensions. Insurance. Doctors. Player safety. If they can't find common ground on those issues,they got problems.

The economic stuff is back on the table Thursday and Friday when Fehr returns from his siesta in Spain.

It comes down to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

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08-07-2012, 04:19 PM
  #956
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Doan for four or more years is ridiculous.

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08-07-2012, 04:23 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm not seeing the skills needed to be a consistent 30+ point scoring center.

I don't think he has the shot needed for it. I don't think he has the hands for it and I know he doesn't have the vision for it.

He fluked his way to a 21 goal season. Kudos to him for it. I highly doubt we see another 30 point season from Boyle and that is going to hurt this team as it still puts pressure on the top 6 to produce more often than they should have to.

As for the fighting comment, I wouldn't go that far. If he wound up knocking smaller players to the ice more than he gets knocked to the ice by smaller players I would ease up on him a bit. A guy his size should never get outmuscled by guys that are alot smaller than he is and that happens every game.

15+ goals and 20+ assists from Boyle and I am a happy camper.

Unfortunately for me, I will not be happy as long as Boyle mans the 3rd line center position because he is not producing those numbers
He put up 35 points in 10-11 and had 26 in what most consider to be a disappointing year. I can't see how 30+ for him is unreachable.

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08-07-2012, 04:38 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
People are seriously saying Arnott is better than Boyle.

Boyle is the most underrated player on the Rangers. Easy
Arnott is ok at what he is ok at...

...but he is very slow. He has never had much if any creativity nor puck skills. And so forth.

I am not at all sold on that we won't need speed and skill as much as we will need a experienced center.

I get Doan, because he is Doan. IE we would get intangibles as much as anything else. But if we don't get a Doan, I am definitely not sold that we should go looking for a poor mans version of him...

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08-07-2012, 04:43 PM
  #959
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If Sather strikes out on Doan, split the remaining money between Arnott and a right handed d-man.

Which righty d-men are left?

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08-07-2012, 04:47 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Go back and re-read what you wrote. What you described, a puck-possession style, is the Red Wings style.

You absolutely can do that and be defensively responsible, however a player who is good at puck possession, defensive play and putting up points IS NOT A 3RD LINE CENTER. What you are asking for is another 2nd line center to play on the 3rd line.
Or a Bolland type...

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08-07-2012, 04:55 PM
  #961
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I am thinking that the Rangers won't make any significant moves until the CBA situation is over, or at the very least takes shape. I am sure they already have their options/moves lined up as we speak.

I expect it will be rapid fire, for most NHL teams, when the new CBA is signed.

Anyways, Rangers will address their needs on D first imo. They may go into the season with Boyle as a 3C, but I think he won't stay there in the second half of the year.

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08-07-2012, 04:56 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm not seeing the skills needed to be a consistent 30+ point scoring center.

I don't think he has the shot needed for it. I don't think he has the hands for it and I know he doesn't have the vision for it.

He fluked his way to a 21 goal season. Kudos to him for it. I highly doubt we see another 30 point season from Boyle and that is going to hurt this team as it still puts pressure on the top 6 to produce more often than they should have to.

As for the fighting comment, I wouldn't go that far. If he wound up knocking smaller players to the ice more than he gets knocked to the ice by smaller players I would ease up on him a bit. A guy his size should never get outmuscled by guys that are alot smaller than he is and that happens every game.

15+ goals and 20+ assists from Boyle and I am a happy camper.

Unfortunately for me, I will not be happy as long as Boyle mans the 3rd line center position because he is not producing those numbers
Last year he had a down year and put up 26 points. You don't think four more goals and four more points is reasonable?

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Old
08-07-2012, 05:00 PM
  #963
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You guys are a ********* joke for calling out Boyle as not a serviceable 3rd line center.. The guy bust his ass every time he's on the ice, does what's expected from torts and goes above and beyond for the team.. And even chips in some offense time to time.. We all kno he's cabl of scoring goals.. He's solid defensively and plays key minutes on pk.. That's what a 3rd line definition is.. You guys look at stats like they mean everything.. Give me a break, with this... I'm a diehard fan, but there always something you ranger fans complain abou.. We have a sick core, something we haven't seen in 20 years and a team that just made it to the ecf with Boyle as the 3c.. Come on guys lets get real!!!!

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08-07-2012, 05:03 PM
  #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...47466876633088

That's the easy stuff. Pensions. Insurance. Doctors. Player safety. If they can't find common ground on those issues,they got problems.

The economic stuff is back on the table Thursday and Friday when Fehr returns from his siesta in Spain.

It comes down to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Stralman and the other Europeans at that Spanish siesta:


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08-07-2012, 05:03 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
You guys are a ********* joke for calling out Boyle as not a serviceable 3rd line center.. The guy bust his ass every time he's on the ice, does what's expected from torts and goes above and beyond for the team.. And even chips in some offense time to time.. We all kno he's cabl of scoring goals.. He's solid defensively and plays key minutes on pk.. That's what a 3rd line definition is.. You guys look at stats like they mean everything.. Give me a break, with this... I'm a diehard fan, but there always something you ranger fans complain abou.. We have a sick core, something we haven't seen in 20 years and a team that just made it to the ecf with Boyle as the 3c.. Come on guys lets get real!!!!
Is that you Brian?

Welcome to HFboards.

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Old
08-07-2012, 05:06 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Is that you Brian?

Welcome to HFboards.
No, Brian Boyle is much more composed than that. Just one of the qualities that makes him a quality third line center.

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08-07-2012, 05:16 PM
  #967
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With Mitchell and Dubinsky gone, we need Brian Boyle at 3rd line C, otherwise I wouldn't have anyone to make fun of.

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08-07-2012, 07:17 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by GamerZX101 View Post
If Sather strikes out on Doan, split the remaining money between Arnott and a right handed d-man.

Which righty d-men are left?
You tell us. What righty d man do you want to sign? Who is worth the money, that you know improves the team and is better than what is already on the roster?


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 08-07-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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08-07-2012, 07:30 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Replaceable part?

With all that center depth we have?

And I thought the people that were saying Boyle was a major problem at the 3C had issues. Now hes a throwaway? If Jeff Halpern is our 3C, then you'll see me complaining similarly to the misguided Boyle hate.
Yeah, because 3rd line centers who place 90th among NHL centers in goals, finish 87th among NHL centers in assists and cant crack the top-100 in FO% are just sooooooooooooo hard to come by.

Where oh where would Sather ever be able to find a replacement for the guy who scored four goals in his first 51 games?????

Boyle is easily replaceable. If he gets injured on opening night and is out for the season, the Rangers are still an elite team.

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08-07-2012, 07:36 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
If Boyle were a good fighter, I think this argument goes away. I get the feeling that because he isn't a beast out there, people are always wanting to get rid of the guy.

Maybe he isn't a consistent 20 goal scorer, but I also think he's better than the 11 he scored last year. Split the difference and I think he could be a 15 goal, 30 point center who takes faceoffs, is a strong defender and generally serves his roll as a third line center. Essentially he's a less physical Joel Otto.
That's a massive insult to Joel Otto. Please.

Otto had a ton of skill for a guy his size. Unlike Boyle, he actually set up goals.

God, Otto was arguably the most valuable Flames forward in two SCF runs -- and that was while checking Gretzky and Hawerchuk and Naslund and Smith.

Otto was a tremendous all-around hockey player and a Selke-caliber player.

Boyle is a 1st round reject who had to redefine his game to keep a steady job, which I am convinced he keeps because he and the coach grew up in the same area.

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08-07-2012, 07:49 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You tell us. What righty d man do you want to sign? Who is worth the money, that you know improves the team and is better than what is already on the roster?
A folding chair is better than Stu Bickel.

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08-07-2012, 07:51 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Last year he had a down year and put up 26 points. You don't think four more goals and four more points is reasonable?
I don't think that his 26 points is a down year. That is more than what I expect from him annually.

Until he establishes that 30+ points is his norm, 26 pts can't really be considered a down season.

Dubi had a down season. What Boyle had may very well be Bos norms and that's not enough.

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08-07-2012, 08:03 PM
  #973
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That's a massive insult to Joel Otto. Please.

Otto had a ton of skill for a guy his size. Unlike Boyle, he actually set up goals.

God, Otto was arguably the most valuable Flames forward in two SCF runs -- and that was while checking Gretzky and Hawerchuk and Naslund and Smith.

Otto was a tremendous all-around hockey player and a Selke-caliber player.

Boyle is a 1st round reject who had to redefine his game to keep a steady job, which I am convinced he keeps because he and the coach grew up in the same area.
Wow, drink caffeine much?

Anyway, I agree with you that Otto was a better player. But playoff heroics aside, not by as much as you might think. If we adjust for the scoring gap as a result of different eras, their numbers are pretty darn close, as are a number of other stats.

Guy was among the top 50 centers for FO percent, received some votes as a Selke candidate and, as witnessed in Ottawa, can have a big impact on a game and series.

He's far from a perfect player, but I think we're going a little overboard when we accuse the guy of having a job because he and the coach grew up in the same area.

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08-07-2012, 08:07 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I don't think that his 26 points is a down year. That is more than what I expect from him annually.

Until he establishes that 30+ points is his norm, 26 pts can't really be considered a down season.

Dubi had a down season. What Boyle had may very well be Bos norms and that's not enough.
See that's the main problem I have with the Boyle conversation. It seems like we just keep stacking the deck on this one. He scores 21 goals and it is a fluke, he scores 11 and that's the norm. We make it so black and white with him, always have.

Let's for argument sake say he scores 15 goals and 15 assists, once again finishes in the top 25 Selke voting (maybe a little higher) and once again finishes in the top 50 for faceoff percentage, is that not good for a third line center?

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08-07-2012, 08:07 PM
  #975
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Yeah, because 3rd line centers who place 90th among NHL centers in goals, finish 87th among NHL centers in assists and cant crack the top-100 in FO% are just sooooooooooooo hard to come by.

Where oh where would Sather ever be able to find a replacement for the guy who scored four goals in his first 51 games?????

Boyle is easily replaceable. If he gets injured on opening night and is out for the season, the Rangers are still an elite team.
Top 90 center in scoring means basic 3rd line point producer.

Boyle will never win amongst the Ranger fans crowd. He's getting picked apart like Mitchell was picked apart. Callahan on the other hand doesn't do **** in the playoffs and he's still a saint.

Sure, I'd like a Rich Peverley or Dave Bolland as a 3rd line center, but those guys are 2C's playing a 3rd line C role since they're playing on teams with center depth. Boyle is fine.

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