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Should Flyers have kept Carle?

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08-07-2012, 04:43 PM
  #1
Norm MacDonald
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Should Flyers have kept Carle?

In retrospect, should Holmgren have signed him to an extension? Pronger is gone, attempts to use the money to sign a top 4 defender have failed, and now Meszaros's injury will keep him longer than expected. Say what you want about Carle, but he can log lots of even strength minutes and transition the puck up the ice. Now the Flyers are stuck with a subpar top 6 and cap space that will likely go to waste.

Don't get me wrong, Carle's contract is awful. But do you regret Flyers not strongly pursuing him when they had the chance?

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08-07-2012, 04:44 PM
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If he was going to be used in a secondary role without anchoring a pairing, he'd be useful. If he was going to be used in a primary role, I don't regret it.

Edit: I say this because Carle's offense is overrated. Considering his ice time and teammates, his point total should have been higher. Once you look at his offensive stats, and the team's stats while he's on the ice, it's apparent that the Flyers actually produced less offense while he was out there. For that reason he'd need to be the secondary man in a pairing. and with a reduced role overall. I don't like paying 5.5mil for that, but in retrospect we have the cap space to do that and it looks like we could use it.

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08-07-2012, 04:46 PM
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Not at what the Bolts paid him...

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08-07-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
In retrospect, should Holmgren have signed him to an extension? Pronger is gone, attempts to use the money to sign a top 4 defender have failed, and now Meszaros's injury will keep him longer than expected. Say what you want about Carle, but he can log lots of even strength minutes and transition the puck up the ice. Now the Flyers are stuck with a subpar top 6 and cap space that will likely go to waste.

Don't get me wrong, Carle's contract is awful. But do you regret Flyers not strongly pursuing him when they had the chance?
The easiest thing is to say yes, but at the same time, the Flyers would have had to overpay and sometimes, the best move is to walk away and not be stuck with an albatross of a contract. The fact that Tampa Bay will be paying Carle 5.5 million dollars a year over 6 years means he's going to have to play top two minutes and he's going to have produce offensively and play superior defensively. That's a problem because Carle is not a superior defensive player. He got better during his time in Philadelphia, but he's simply not a top two defender.

All what the Meszaros injury means is that Laviolette and company are going to have to clamp down defensively in terms of game planning and that we might end up seeing this team score a lot less in order to preserve things on the defensive side and give the defense a bit of a rest.

As well, there are still numerous defensemen available via free agency that the Flyers can certainly look at and call upon. If they land Roszival and Hannan, they've just solidified the top six and can give Meszaros all the time he needs to heal up and come back 100% healthy.

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08-07-2012, 04:53 PM
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Not for that contract.

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08-07-2012, 04:53 PM
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Wait, it was a 6 year contract? I was thinking it was 3 years. Never mind, screw that, not interested in any situation. Unless Carle takes a sudden leap forward in his defensive skill, or develops an NHL-level shot, he isn't worth anything near that as it stands.

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08-07-2012, 04:54 PM
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We are all going to be laughing at that contract in 6 months time. Just like the Leino contract. Trust me.

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08-07-2012, 05:08 PM
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Carle would absolutely have been useful given the state of our defense right now.

But a 6 year commitment is 100% a deal breaker. Our D will look radically different in 3 years I am sure. I am not ready to commit $5.5m of cap space to Carle for the next six years when we dont know what kind of role he would play in that time.

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08-07-2012, 05:15 PM
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I wanted them to keep him, but as people are saying, not at his current deal.

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08-07-2012, 06:05 PM
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Hard to fathom why any real Flyers fan would even remotely suggest that losing that useless piece of a turn over machine would be damaging ... even to this day . Move on .

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08-07-2012, 06:12 PM
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I'm impressed and please that there aren't more "panic everyone, Mez is injured" threads

I was expecting to log on and see the top 20 threads to be something like this:

"What would it take to get Yandle?"
"Jeff Finger?"
"Proposal: Giroux for Subban"
"Pole: should we tank and go for 1st overall"
"Speculation: Homer knew all along Mez was injured all along and they faked a fresh injury"

and so on and so forth

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08-07-2012, 06:32 PM
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thelos
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not at 5.5 million.

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08-07-2012, 06:49 PM
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funghoul
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he's was grossly overpaid because of the market. but good defenseman are hard to find and we do now have to sign or trade for somebody because we have no depth at this point. this has been a rough summer. i see a big trade coming with several parts moving back and forth.

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08-07-2012, 06:53 PM
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HELL NO...

there are tons of plugins you could hire to deliver what Carle provided into between turn overs for WAYYY less $$$, and not have to be stuck with said plugin for years either..

the Mez. injury sucks but it in NO WAY makes the Carle move look like a bad idea.

if anything if we had stuck with Carle, he would most likely got MORE minutes against top line teams now that Mez. is injured and be coughing up the puck EVEN more for christs sake..

good riddance to bad rubbish i say.

im actualy looking forward to watching some Tampa games this season (when the Flyers games arent on) so i can laugh at Carles continued hilarity..

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08-07-2012, 07:11 PM
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No, I don't like overpaying. I would like to still have Carle, but you can see all over the league the problems that are created when you have bad contracts.

The person who brought up the Leino deal is right on. I would still love to have Leino, but that contract was way too much. Unless Carle becomes a great defenseman, this year or soon after, everyone will be glad they didn't pay him that much.

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08-07-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laundryman View Post
Not at what the Bolts paid him...
Agreed!

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08-07-2012, 08:14 PM
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SeanCWombBroom
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Carle and the 1-3-1 were made for each other.

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08-07-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Carle and the 1-3-1 were made for each other.
As long as he's a 3.

I don't miss Carle under the circumstances, and I fully approve what Holmgren tried this off-season. They just need to call the Vatican and get in an exorcist for this franchise.

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08-07-2012, 09:21 PM
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sobrien
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Flyers had an offer in place and apparently an agreement with Carle....Carle decided to walk when he saw more dollar signs, and might have caught wind of the Flyers pursuing Weber, putting Carle and Jagr on hold.

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08-07-2012, 09:29 PM
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BleedOrange
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LOL we get a injury and posters start asking should we have gave Carle the money like another poster said HELL NO..

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08-07-2012, 10:47 PM
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funghoul
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i think its time to pull off a three way. remember those? they used to happen all the time but i can't remember the last time it happened. we should pry bernier off the kings and use him to trade for a defenseman. maybe we can give the kings leighton and a young in, call up bashicua and trade bernier and another player to florida for campbell. i d take jovo at this point. campbell would fit in great here considering our breakout system. i think florida would do it to get a true upgrade in goal as long as we threw them another player. i think the kings would love a player like scott hartnell. hartnell for campbell? i'm kid din. i aint given up hartnell.


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08-07-2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
If he was going to be used in a secondary role without anchoring a pairing, he'd be useful. If he was going to be used in a primary role, I don't regret it.


From BSH, he was doing just fine anchoring a pairing as his most common partner was a guy who the Flyers felt was going to be a career minor league before the season.


If Carle doesn't work in Tampa Bay, it's going to be more because he's going to a system that does not try to produce offense.

And the contract isn't awful, he's getting close to the same percentage of cap space that his last contract had. He got a raise in real dollars, just like anyone else would.

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08-07-2012, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post


From BSH, he was doing just fine anchoring a pairing as his most common partner was a guy who the Flyers felt was going to be a career minor league before the season.


If Carle doesn't work in Tampa Bay, it's going to be more because he's going to a system that does not try to produce offense.

And the contract isn't awful, he's getting close to the same percentage of cap space that his last contract had. He got a raise in real dollars, just like anyone else would.
Chances are neat, but the team produced considerably less actual goals whenever Carle was on the ice compared to almost every other defenseman. I care more about actual results than failed "could-have-beens." I think he only beat out two Dmen. Since offense is supposed to be his forte, color me incredibly unimpressed. Hell, Coburn outproduced him at even strength.

That looks like another BSH attempt to hype up one of their favorite players. They really need to stop picking average-at-best players (Boucher, Carle) and hyping them up to be something they're not...really kills that site's credibility.


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08-08-2012, 12:06 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Chances are neat, but the team produced considerably less actual goals whenever Carle was on the ice compared to almost every other defenseman. I care more about actual results than failed "could-have-beens." I think he only beat out two Dmen. Since offense is supposed to be his forte, color me incredibly unimpressed. Hell, Coburn outproduced him at even strength.

That looks like another BSH attempt to hype up one of their favorite players. They really need to stop picking average-at-best players (Boucher, Carle) and hyping them up to be something they're not...really kills that site's credibility.
It's not really practical to account for actual goals given the amount of luck it takes to actually score a goal.

I don't see how this is over-hype, they're actually using what the Flyers are on record for in regards to what tangible evidence they use to evaluate their players.

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08-08-2012, 12:09 AM
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It's not really practical to account for actual goals given the amount of luck it takes to actually score a goal.

I don't see how this is over-hype, they're actually using what the Flyers are on record for in regards to what tangible evidence they use to evaluate their players.
Over the course of 82 games, the Flyers' offense was demonstrably more effective whenever Carle wasn't on the ice. Goals were scored at a higher rate when he was on the bench. It's not luck when it occurs over the course of an entire season...that's a trend.

I've got a post spelling it out in the other Carle offseason thread. I'm going to bed but I'll dig it up tomorrow if I remember/feel like it.

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