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Free Agent Talk (Part XIV): Semin to Carolina; Doan still thinking

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08-07-2012, 08:09 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats it huh? 15 goals/20 assists and youre just fine and dandy? Thats an interesting way of evaluating a player - especially in the bottom 6.

Boyle playing the majority of his ice time against the oppositions top forwards means nothing to you? No value whatsoever in that?

Geez, you people have no idea what you want, but you certainly seem to know what you dont want.
It's not just the points.

It's the points IN ADDITION to the solid defensive play that I think is a bit overrated.

I know what I want and prefer but we had to move him for Nash.

I am 100% with a slight downgrade defensvely for an improvement offensively as I believe the team defensive concept can more than make up for the difference.

As for matching up against top forwards against other teams. I believe we match certain D more than we match Boyle against the likes of Sid and Malkin and those guys.

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08-07-2012, 08:14 PM
  #977
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Let's go with the assumption that Boyle is a 13-17 goal, 13-17 assist center in a typical year.That puts him roughly in the 60-90 range in scoring among centers.

I don't think anyone is arguing that he is the best third line center in the league, or a premier third line player. I think we can all agree on that.

However, it seems like the people who aren't high on him are trying to make the argument about him not even being a third line center by picking apart the fact that he isn't the absolute best third line center in the league, as oppossed to whether he is in the mix as far as third liners go.

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08-07-2012, 08:18 PM
  #978
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Let's go with the assumption that Boyle is a 13-17 goal, 13-17 assist center in a typical year.That puts him roughly in the 60-90 range in scoring among centers.

I don't think anyone is arguing that he is the best third line center in the league, or a premier third line player. I think we can all agree on that.

However, it seems like the people who aren't high on him are trying to make the argument about him not even being a third line center by picking apart the fact that he isn't the absolute best third line center in the league, as oppossed to whether he is in the mix as far as third liners go.
I'm saying that Brian Boyle cannot be a third line center on a Stanley Cup winning team. As far as him being a serviceable 3C on a competitive/playoff team, whatever.

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08-07-2012, 08:19 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Let's go with the assumption that Boyle is a 13-17 goal, 13-17 assist center in a typical year.That puts him roughly in the 60-90 range in scoring among centers.

I don't think anyone is arguing that he is the best third line center in the league, or a premier third line player. I think we can all agree on that.

However, it seems like the people who aren't high on him are trying to make the argument about him not even being a third line center by picking apart the fact that he isn't the absolute best third line center in the league, as oppossed to whether he is in the mix as far as third liners go.
If you want to win a championship, you need to have guys who are among the best in their niche compared to the guys filling the same niche on other teams in as many niches as possible.

Playing on the 4th line, or even as a 3rd line wing, Boyle would be better in his niche.

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08-07-2012, 08:19 PM
  #980
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If memory serves Bleacher Report, possibly along w/others, noted Devils ownership needs to come up with $$$ in a week.

What a pity we can't buy Larsson.
Putting aside the whole we are us and they are them, etc., NHL contracts can't be 'purchased' or 'sold', I gather...

If I remember the name right, Hannum (or is it Hannan) is the only decent looking D left, RedWings may be interested in him. All others have too much issues, too slow to fit. Maybe this guy is 1 year stop gap on a 2 way.

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08-07-2012, 08:20 PM
  #981
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I'm saying that Brian Boyle cannot be a third line center on a Stanley Cup winning team. As far as him being a serviceable 3C on a competitive/playoff team, whatever.
Why not? Before getting concussed by Neil, he was our best player down the stretch and into the playoffs. Brian Boyle is the epitome 3rd line center that leads this sport by example. I'd say Richards cannot be the 1st line center on a cup winning team or Stepan cannot be the 2nd line center on a cup winning team before I claim Boyle can't be the 3rd line center on a cup winning team.

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08-07-2012, 08:23 PM
  #982
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Why not? Before getting concussed by Neil, he was our best player down the stretch and into the playoffs. Brian Boyle is the epitome 3rd line center that leads this sport by example. I'd say Richards cannot be the 1st line center on a cup winning team or Stepan cannot be the 2nd line center on a cup winning team before I claim Boyle can't be the 3rd line center on a cup winning team.
No he wasn't, in fact he was wildly inconsistent(to be fair, the whole team was). He had a terrible stretch of games where Torts was annoyed his line was getting scored on too much.

Boyle did have a couple good games in Ottawa series, but disappeared(you want to say it was concussion, whatever).

During the season, Boyle only had about 8-10 games, imo, where he was relevant. But apparently he has like 3 quality games in the playoffs, so all is forgiven.

As far as Step, Richards are concerned your really digging for some sort of angle.

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08-07-2012, 08:24 PM
  #983
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I think the hate for Boyle stems from the fact that Torts just overplays him (even over better players). Down the stretch in a 5 minute where we need a goal, he'll put Boyle out there (the bottom lines even).

I think Boyle is a good player who'd be better served in a 4th line center role. I hope Miller can impress in camp and overtake the 3C role.

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08-07-2012, 08:24 PM
  #984
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If memory serves Bleacher Report, possibly along w/others, noted Devils ownership needs to come up with $$$ in a week.

What a pity we can't buy Larsson.
Putting aside the whole we are us and they are them, etc., NHL contracts can't be 'purchased' or 'sold', I gather...

If I remember the name right, Hannum (or is it Hannan) is the only decent looking D left, RedWings may be interested in him. All others have too much issues, too slow to fit. Maybe this guy is 1 year stop gap on a 2 way.
Larsson is a total pipedream. He fill a big need for the Devils and will be their #1 for yrs to come. We also will never trade with the Devils, so don't hold your breath for a potential trade.

Yes Scott Hannan is still a UFA, although I doubt he'll accept a two-way contract. He's a solid bottom pairing guy that has filled a top 4 role on the Flames last yr, however he is pretty slow like you mentioned. He'll probably go to Philadelphia since Meszaros is injured for at least half the season to due surgery on a broken achilles tendon.

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08-07-2012, 08:29 PM
  #985
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Am I the only one who's excited to see Boyle as the 3rd line center?

He's come such a long way since his first year as a Ranger. He'll be flanked by speed and size and I think he will hold up just fine.

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08-07-2012, 08:30 PM
  #986
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See that's the main problem I have with the Boyle conversation. It seems like we just keep stacking the deck on this one. He scores 21 goals and it is a fluke, he scores 11 and that's the norm. We make it so black and white with him, always have.

Let's for argument sake say he scores 15 goals and 15 assists, once again finishes in the top 25 Selke voting (maybe a little higher) and once again finishes in the top 50 for faceoff percentage, is that not good for a third line center?
If the third line becomes a dangerous unit and a threat to score more often then they have, then I can say yes, that would suffice for a solid 3rd line center.

I just don't see that happening with him in that role. Especially not with Pyatt manning one of the wings.

I think that Pyatt needs a player with more vision and better hands to benefit from.

Finishing top 25 in Selke voting does not impress me. Sorry it just doesn't.

And a quick count, Boyle was just about 50th for players that took 300 or more face offs.

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08-07-2012, 08:33 PM
  #987
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I am done with the Brian Boyle conversation for the time being. Its a completely circular conversation. Everyone knows where everyone stands, nobody is going to change each others minds about this.

I hope Boyle proves me wrong, and has a great year. Otherwise the Rangers have problems. I'll leave it at that.

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08-07-2012, 08:40 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Am I the only one who's excited to see Boyle as the 3rd line center?

He's come such a long way since his first year as a Ranger. He'll be flanked by speed and size and I think he will hold up just fine.
No, I'm not excited to see a 3 on 2 rush and Boyle shoots it when he crosses the blue line

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08-07-2012, 08:42 PM
  #989
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I am done with the Brian Boyle conversation for the time being. Its a completely circular conversation. Everyone knows where everyone stands, nobody is going to change each others minds about this.

I hope Boyle proves me wrong, and has a great year. Otherwise the Rangers have problems. I'll leave it at that.
LOL.

If the Rangers biggest problem this year is Brian Boyle then we will be having a great year.

I can't, for the life of me, understand how someone who does a decent enough good for a 3rd line player can be the topic of such debate.

I like our chances this year if our biggest issue is our 3rd line center.

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08-07-2012, 08:42 PM
  #990
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No he wasn't, in fact he was wildly inconsistent(to be fair, the whole team was). He had a terrible stretch of games where Torts was annoyed his line was getting scored on too much.

Boyle did have a couple good games in Ottawa series, but disappeared(you want to say it was concussion, whatever).

During the season, Boyle only had about 8-10 games, imo, where he was relevant. But apparently he has like 3 quality games in the playoffs, so all is forgiven.

As far as Step, Richards are concerned your really digging for some sort of angle.
Boyle was playing great hockey down the stretch, there is no other way around it.

LAST 10 GP: 5G 2A 7 PTS while being over 50% on the draw in 8 of those games.

Boyle was quietly consistent for most of the season, it's just that he didn't dangle through players, beat other players up or didn't put up any notable goals, which led to people choosing him to be the scapegoat. He was used for 28.8% of his shifts starting in his offensive end and finished at 43.9% of shifts in offensive end. That's him being quietly effective as a 3rd line center. When you factor in his production as around 90th amongst centers in pts, that's on line with your average 3rd line center. Why does Brian Boyle get ice time in the last 5 minutes? You can't just roll out Richards/Stepan line for 2:50 each, they'll both be gassed. Boyle takes the defensive starts and eats up those tougher minutes for breakfast. And yes absolutely I'd rather have Boyle in his role, Richards and Stepan are good players, but Richards isn't as good defensively as he used to be and his point production took a hit, while Stepan hasn't proven himself more than a 2nd line center, I'd definitely rank him behind the Richards/Elias/Krejci/Kesler/etc 2nd line centers. While with Boyle, I take very few 3rd line centers over him.

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08-07-2012, 08:48 PM
  #991
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Am I the only one who's excited to see Boyle as the 3rd line center?


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08-07-2012, 08:51 PM
  #992
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LOL.

If the Rangers biggest problem this year is Brian Boyle then we will be having a great year.

I can't, for the life of me, understand how someone who does a decent enough good for a 3rd line player can be the topic of such debate.

I like our chances this year if our biggest issue is our 3rd line center.
Agreed. If Boyle is our biggest problem, we're in good shape. Third line c's are available at the deadline for 2nd rounders.

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08-07-2012, 08:52 PM
  #993
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Boyle was playing great hockey down the stretch, there is no other way around it.

LAST 10 GP: 5G 2A 7 PTS while being over 50% on the draw in 8 of those games.

Boyle was quietly consistent for most of the season, it's just that he didn't dangle through players, beat other players up or didn't put up any notable goals, which led to people choosing him to be the scapegoat. He was used for 28.8% of his shifts starting in his offensive end and finished at 43.9% of shifts in offensive end. That's him being quietly effective as a 3rd line center. When you factor in his production as around 90th amongst centers in pts, that's on line with your average 3rd line center. Why does Brian Boyle get ice time in the last 5 minutes? You can't just roll out Richards/Stepan line for 2:50 each, they'll both be gassed. Boyle takes the defensive starts and eats up those tougher minutes for breakfast. And yes absolutely I'd rather have Boyle in his role, Richards and Stepan are good players, but Richards isn't as good defensively as he used to be and his point production took a hit, while Stepan hasn't proven himself more than a 2nd line center, I'd definitely rank him behind the Richards/Elias/Krejci/Kesler/etc 2nd line centers. While with Boyle, I take very few 3rd line centers over him.
But that is part of the problem.

Take away that amazing stretch (j/k) and he has 6 goals and 13 assists in 72 other
games.

Not sure how that is a good thing.

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08-07-2012, 08:54 PM
  #994
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But that is part of the problem.

Take away that amazing stretch (j/k) and he has 6 goals and 13 assists in 72 other
games.

Not sure how that is a good thing.
Not sure why we're taking away that 10 game stretch.

Take away Richards 10game stretch in March and his production doesn't look good either.

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08-07-2012, 08:54 PM
  #995
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LOL.

If the Rangers biggest problem this year is Brian Boyle then we will be having a great year.

I can't, for the life of me, understand how someone who does a decent enough good for a 3rd line player can be the topic of such debate.

I like our chances this year if our biggest issue is our 3rd line center.
totally agree...and if by deadline time, boyle isn't handling the role and miller isn't ready yet we can trade for a center at the deadline. you should be able to pick up a 3rd line center at the deadline

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08-07-2012, 09:18 PM
  #996
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Not sure why we're taking away that 10 game stretch.

Take away Richards 10game stretch in March and his production doesn't look good either.
In the last 10 games, Boyle got goals against the Capitals, Buffalo, Minnesota, Jets, Flyers. Caps/Buffalo were both blowout losses. So he had meaningful points in three games.

He got his 2 assists against playing the Penguins, where the Rangers were absolutely embarrassed. Boyle was dreadful in that game, being on the ice for three of the five Pens Goals.

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08-07-2012, 09:52 PM
  #997
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I'm saying that Brian Boyle cannot be a third line center on a Stanley Cup winning team. As far as him being a serviceable 3C on a competitive/playoff team, whatever.
Boyle outproduced Stoll last season - LA still won a cup.

I could go on, but honestly the silliness of your statement speaks for itself.

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08-07-2012, 10:14 PM
  #998
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Boyle outproduced Stoll last season - LA still won a cup.

I could go on, but honestly the silliness of your statement speaks for itself.
not if you don't count the games that boyle scored in lol

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08-07-2012, 10:17 PM
  #999
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