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UFC on Fox 4: Shogun vs Vera

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08-07-2012, 02:56 AM
  #251
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Machida is the #2 LHW in the world. Crap, he's hardly that, but he doesn't rush in with his chin up and hands down like it's a toughman contest. I like knowing that he's going to brutally KO one-dimensional fighters who try to pull that terrible tactic on him.

If the first round sucked it's because he was fighting somebody who didn't belong in the cage with him, who is naturally hesitant to exchange in a striking battle because Tito Ortiz roasted him and then choked him out. Bader is supposed to be a pressure grappling fighter and he stood there doing absolutely nothing, being scared to get knocked out, which eventually happened to him anyway.

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08-07-2012, 02:56 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Your takes on Machida are so nonsensical that he is probably trying to figure out if you are trolling or if you really believe what you are saying in this thread.

Machida isnt everyone's cup of tea, I get that, but even if you dont care for his style, or his game plan, you should be able to appreciate his skill and execution.

The guy rarely gets tagged and/or taken down because he is so elusive and yet he is quick enough to counter and/or move into range, strike, and move back out of range, often times without getting tagged himself.

He is a world class striker/mma fighter.

He is most definitely not "crap" or "Fitch".
Lol, not trolling. That's ridiculous. How was the first round entertaining? Where did I say HE was crap? I simply do not like how ALL he did the first round was sit and wait for Bader. He's alway been a counter striker, seemed way more than usual and was non aggressive. Just hand movements. Didn't like it...what's nonsensical or possible trolling about that?? Stupid statement. Great, he rarely gets hit, wasn't all his fault it was so boring, but I'd rather him do more than hand movements. Bader was clearly timid, I remember Machida being more aggressive with Tito and even Bons, maybe it was they who were. Either way, I look forward to him getting beaten by him again.

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08-07-2012, 07:04 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I watch nearly every UFC event, TUF, replays, etc. I know what I'm talking about. There was nothing beautiful, fun, or exciting about the fight until the finish. Hey great, that's his style, wait for a guy to come in, counter and generally do well. The first round completely sucked. Bader was obviously timid and nervous about Machida's excellent counter techniques and abilities, but how anyone was OK with all his arm movements and honestly that sit there style is beyond me. Most don't like when Anderson toys with his opponents, seemed very similar to me. I don't like it, you guys do? OK, doesn't change my opinion.

So far as the Fitch comparison, he just does enough to score points, it's boring. So was the first round.
I respect that you watch a fair bit of UFC, so do I. There may not have been anything beautiful about that fight to you, but I loved every second. I loved seeing Bader throw a punch, completely miss, then use his forward momentum to run himself out of range for Machida to counter. He was scared. He knew he couldn't exchange with him so he found himself throwing haymakers trying to make a connection and just getting dummied at the end.

Machida isn't going to just tuck his chin and move forward like Thiago Silva or somebody. He's a different style of fighter, a style I can really appreciate because of how he is able to finish fights and take almost no damage in the process.

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08-07-2012, 09:45 AM
  #254
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Machida's lunging knees to the body on pressuring grapplers are SO BORING! I WANT GRIFFIN/BONNAR AGAIN SO I CAN YELL AT THE TV AND KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING!

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08-07-2012, 10:28 AM
  #255
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Amazing the just Bleed fans in here. Comparing Machida to Fitch haha wow. Bader got owned and like I said earlier its great watching these Wrestleboxers eat the mat.

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08-07-2012, 10:30 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by yakitate304 View Post
Machida's lunging knees to the body on pressuring grapplers are SO BORING! I WANT GRIFFIN/BONNAR AGAIN SO I CAN YELL AT THE TV AND KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING!
I cant find that 'Just Bleed' pic but buddy up there comparing Machida to Fitch must be his illegitimate son.

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08-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by The Kingslayer View Post
I cant find that 'Just Bleed' pic but buddy up there comparing Machida to Fitch must be his illegitimate son.
It was tough to find. I had to google "UFC just bleed".


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08-07-2012, 03:51 PM
  #258
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It was tough to find. I had to google "UFC just bleed".

I couldnt find= Im too lazy and waiting for someone less lazy to find and post

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08-07-2012, 04:49 PM
  #259
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Great night of fights. Undercard had some really nice finishes and Pham/Miller was a war.

Beauty punch by Swick. Glad to see him back and winning.

Lauzon/Varner was a great fight and if Varner didn't gas I'm thinking he would've won the fight.

Machida deserves the title shot over Shogun. His performance was much more dominant even if it was boring until the KO. Jones is going to kill him again though.

Shogun really, really needs to work on his conditioning (heard that before?). I'm not sure if it's because he's not training hard enough or the bad knees don't allow him to or a combination of both but he really needs to improve his cardio if he wants to challenge for the title again. Good thing is his chin is amongst the best in MMA so he keeps fighting even when gassed and taking punches. His striking was extremely accurate Sat night and if (huge if) he can get his cardio to where it needs to be he'll be the toughest fight out there for Jones.

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08-07-2012, 04:55 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by The Kingslayer View Post
Ya only he didnt win the first fight, hommie.
Well, officially he didn't win because three blind judges (one of whom admitted he doesn't count leg kicks) scored it that way. Every other MMA fan, fighter, analyst etc. in the world knows Shogun won that fight and if you think otherwise then no offence but you're either biased or don't know how to score a fight.

Although, I wouldn't expect much less from someone who idolizes Jamie Lannister.

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08-07-2012, 06:05 PM
  #261
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Hey, leave Jaime Lannister out of this.

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08-07-2012, 08:22 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
Well, officially he didn't win because three blind judges (one of whom admitted he doesn't count leg kicks) scored it that way. Every other MMA fan, fighter, analyst etc. in the world knows Shogun won that fight and if you think otherwise then no offence but you're either biased or don't know how to score a fight.

Although, I wouldn't expect much less from someone who idolizes Jamie Lannister.
I was following along with your argument, but I can't take anyone who dismisses Jamie Lannister seriously. Machida won that fight, leg damage isn't everything, and Machida did well in the punch exchanges, and he was the throne holder. To kill the dragon you have to take off his head, not just chop at his legs.

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08-07-2012, 08:58 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post

So far as the Fitch comparison, he just does enough to score points, it's boring. So was the first round.
I get why you would think the first round was boring but the Fitch comparison is nonsensical. Machida loses rounds with his "boring" style, not the other way around. See the fight with Rampage.

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08-07-2012, 09:51 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
I was following along with your argument, but I can't take anyone who dismisses Jamie Lannister seriously. Machida won that fight, leg damage isn't everything, and Machida did well in the punch exchanges, and he was the throne holder. To kill the dragon you have to take off his head, not just chop at his legs.
Even though Shogun clearly won that fight?

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08-07-2012, 10:30 PM
  #265
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Even though Shogun clearly won that fight?
Not at all. It was a close fight. People that are saying it was some travesty of justice are purveyors of nonsense.

Either way, Shogun got dummied by Jones much worse than Machida did, so there's that.

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08-07-2012, 11:19 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove View Post
I get why you would think the first round was boring but the Fitch comparison is nonsensical. Machida loses rounds with his "boring" style, not the other way around. See the fight with Rampage.
Fair enough and thanks for taking the time, perhaps should have have compared it to anderson toying with his opponents. Just meant that I was as eager for more as I am with a Fitch fight. I love the ground game, appreciate Machida'a style, and know its not all about full on going at it, just thought Bader was so ridiculously timid that Machida could have pushed a bit more. Rather than do a boatload of hand movements.

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08-08-2012, 11:47 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Fair enough and thanks for taking the time, perhaps should have have compared it to anderson toying with his opponents. Just meant that I was as eager for more as I am with a Fitch fight. I love the ground game, appreciate Machida'a style, and know its not all about full on going at it, just thought Bader was so ridiculously timid that Machida could have pushed a bit more. Rather than do a boatload of hand movements.
The one thing you have to respect about Bader's standup is his power. It's legitimate KO power, and it's mainly in his overhand right. The more you attack him, the more likely it is that he can uncork that money punch since he's countering your forward momentum. Also, the more you come forward against him, the easier it is for him to shoot the takedown and use your forward momentum against you.

Machida in the first round:
-Neutralized the takedown via counter knees to the body, and with good range/angle control
-Neutralized the opponent's primary striking threat
-Still scored with significant strikes


I just don't see how successfully implementing that sort of tactical superiority can be considered boring, by anyone. I find it incredibly interesting to watch and learn from.

Also, those same hand movements that set up his perfect counter punch KO also set up his highlight reel crane kick KO on Couture. It's not as if he doesn't do anything with them. Fighting is as mental as it is physical, and that sort of thing will have an impact on the opponent.

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08-08-2012, 11:50 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by yakitate304 View Post
The one thing you have to respect about Bader's standup is his power. It's legitimate KO power, and it's mainly in his overhand right. The more you attack him, the more likely it is that he can uncork that money punch since he's countering your forward momentum. Also, the more you come forward against him, the easier it is for him to shoot the takedown and use your forward momentum against you.

Machida in the first round:
-Neutralized the takedown via counter knees to the body, and with good range/angle control
-Neutralized the opponent's primary striking threat
-Still scored with significant strikes


I just don't see how successfully implementing that sort of tactical superiority can be considered boring, by anyone. I find it incredibly interesting to watch and learn from.

Also, those same hand movements that set up his perfect counter punch KO also set up his highlight reel crane kick KO on Couture. It's not as if he doesn't do anything with them. Fighting is as mental as it is physical, and that sort of thing will have an impact on the opponent.
The "B" bomb was disarmed by the Dragon

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08-08-2012, 03:52 PM
  #269
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Well, officially he didn't win because three blind judges (one of whom admitted he doesn't count leg kicks) scored it that way. Every other MMA fan, fighter, analyst etc. in the world knows Shogun won that fight and if you think otherwise then no offence but you're either biased or don't know how to score a fight.

Although, I wouldn't expect much less from someone who idolizes Jamie Lannister.
Actually i would say Officially he did win. Its on his record as such. It was a close fight. I thought it was a draw but I never saw it as a Shogun win. I know how to score a fight just fine and I happen to like both fighters. Not sure what Jamie Lannister has to do with anything.

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08-09-2012, 12:04 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by The Kingslayer View Post
Actually i would say Officially he did win. Its on his record as such.
We were talking about Shogun not Machida. I said Shogun didn't win officially but everyone else knows he did.
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Not sure what Jamie Lannister has to do with anything.
It's called a joke, hence the smilie.

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08-09-2012, 12:44 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by yakitate304 View Post
The one thing you have to respect about Bader's standup is his power. It's legitimate KO power, and it's mainly in his overhand right. The more you attack him, the more likely it is that he can uncork that money punch since he's countering your forward momentum. Also, the more you come forward against him, the easier it is for him to shoot the takedown and use your forward momentum against you.

Machida in the first round:
-Neutralized the takedown via counter knees to the body, and with good range/angle control
-Neutralized the opponent's primary striking threat
-Still scored with significant strikes


I just don't see how successfully implementing that sort of tactical superiority can be considered boring, by anyone. I find it incredibly interesting to watch and learn from.

Also, those same hand movements that set up his perfect counter punch KO also set up his highlight reel crane kick KO on Couture. It's not as if he doesn't do anything with them. Fighting is as mental as it is physical, and that sort of thing will have an impact on the opponent.
Great post and brings up a lot I didn't account for. Seemed to me that he was just stalling which frustrated me as I felt Bader was timid enough for Machida to be a bit more aggressive. But you're right, he still has to account for Bader's power and wrestling.

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08-09-2012, 12:52 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not at all. It was a close fight. People that are saying it was some travesty of justice are purveyors of nonsense.

Either way, Shogun got dummied by Jones much worse than Machida did, so there's that.
It should have been a pretty clear win for Shogun.
Machida and Shogun both got dummied pretty good by Jones. Supporters of either sound foolish when trying to make a case with those results.

I am actually hoping Hendo wins. So we get Hendo/Machida and Jones/Shogun.
One of two glorious things will happen then.

We get Hendo/Shogun 2 or Shogun gets a gimmie for the belt.

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