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Tocchet: Flyers D "Serviceable" but could be better

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Old
08-07-2012, 11:49 AM
  #51
Stonehands77
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I agree. I think it's a pointless endeavor that's obviously aimed at screwing with the Habs more than it is about acquiring a defenseman should the act go down.

If the Habs were in our division maybe, but it doesn't make sense. Same reason you won't see us offersheeting Carlson. It's just not the right circumstances for it to be done.
This is where I disagree with that. The playoffs are by conference right now, so any time you can limit your potential rivals cap space you should do so. I personally would like to see the RFA offer sheet used more, but I've also never understood this "you're going to get screwed" thing everyone here has about them. As is pointed out, there are a few limiting factors to offer sheets:

1. The player has to SIGN it before it has any value
2. The offer must be large enough to have impact
3. The offering team must keep its own house in order to minimize potential blowback

I think the Flyers are a team that can certainly handle #3, and usually does. They're also uniquely placed for items 1 & 2. They have a large budget, and aren't afraid to use it. They are a desirable destination, frequently in contention with top notch facilities and an organization dedicated to trying to win.

To me, this argues the Flyers should be MORE aggressive in using offer sheets then they have. And they should absolutely try to minimize the available cap space of their rivals. If the Flyers think Carlson or Subban are worth large offer sheets, do it. If the player accepts and then it's matched, you've hamstrung the Caps and Habs, who you may be battling for a playoff spot or seeding. If the player accepts without a match, and you're convinced he's going to be the real deal, you just landed a key cog in your future for players that will in all likelihood not match the performance of these players.

Just because Brian Burke got his panties in a bunch over an offer sheet a while back doesn't mean it's not a valid tool for a GM to use. Besides, if Burke wanted to fight Holmgren again, I'm sure Paul could knock his ass down.

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08-08-2012, 01:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Stonehands77 View Post
This is where I disagree with that. The playoffs are by conference right now, so any time you can limit your potential rivals cap space you should do so. I personally would like to see the RFA offer sheet used more, but I've also never understood this "you're going to get screwed" thing everyone here has about them. As is pointed out, there are a few limiting factors to offer sheets:

1. The player has to SIGN it before it has any value
2. The offer must be large enough to have impact
3. The offering team must keep its own house in order to minimize potential blowback

I think the Flyers are a team that can certainly handle #3, and usually does. They're also uniquely placed for items 1 & 2. They have a large budget, and aren't afraid to use it. They are a desirable destination, frequently in contention with top notch facilities and an organization dedicated to trying to win.

To me, this argues the Flyers should be MORE aggressive in using offer sheets then they have. And they should absolutely try to minimize the available cap space of their rivals. If the Flyers think Carlson or Subban are worth large offer sheets, do it. If the player accepts and then it's matched, you've hamstrung the Caps and Habs, who you may be battling for a playoff spot or seeding. If the player accepts without a match, and you're convinced he's going to be the real deal, you just landed a key cog in your future for players that will in all likelihood not match the performance of these players.

Just because Brian Burke got his panties in a bunch over an offer sheet a while back doesn't mean it's not a valid tool for a GM to use. Besides, if Burke wanted to fight Holmgren again, I'm sure Paul could knock his ass down.
The downside of this practice is that the Habs GM could make an off-the-cuff remark to the media that any Flyer RFA looking to receive a slight overpayment is free to sign with the Habs. The Habs (and the RFA player) know the Flyers will match.

Eg. Schenn is asking for 5.5 million. Flyers want to offer 4.5. Habs sign him for 6 million. Flyers match. Schenn is happy as is his agent. Habs jack up the Flyers cap. The insanity repeats itself.

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08-08-2012, 01:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
The downside of this practice is that the Habs GM could make an off-the-cuff remark to the media that any Flyer RFA looking to receive a slight overpayment is free to sign with the Habs. The Habs (and the RFA player) know the Flyers will match.

Eg. Schenn is asking for 5.5 million. Flyers want to offer 4.5. Habs sign him for 6 million. Flyers match. Schenn is happy as is his agent. Habs jack up the Flyers cap. The insanity repeats itself.
This doesn't work.

Why doesn't anyone understand that signing an offersheet actually requires the player to want to play for your organisation........

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08-08-2012, 01:58 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
This doesn't work.

Why doesn't anyone understand that signing an offersheet actually requires the player to want to play for your organisation........
That statement goes both ways. Why would Subban want to play for the Flyers? Why wouldn't Flyers RFA's want to play for the Habs if they can get a substantial overpayment?

Still, the theory holds water. If you are a valuable RFA trying to get the most bang for your buck, why not sign an offersheet with a willing (and vengeful team) knowing that the compensation is not worthwhile for the team (Flyers in this case)?

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08-08-2012, 03:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
That statement goes both ways. Why would Subban want to play for the Flyers? Why wouldn't Flyers RFA's want to play for the Habs if they can get a substantial overpayment?

Still, the theory holds water. If you are a valuable RFA trying to get the most bang for your buck, why not sign an offersheet with a willing (and vengeful team) knowing that the compensation is not worthwhile for the team (Flyers in this case)?
Then they sign it, and more power to them. If the Flyers GM has not taken care of business, that's his fault and maybe he'll learn.

I still think the Flyers have an edge here. As I laid out previously, the Flyers shoot for the Cup every year, and will do whatever it takes. Players see that, and to go with excellent facilities and an organization that seems to be very highly regarded they have quite a bit of pull. Frankly, while Flyers fans are passionate, they are not as looney tunes as Habs fans, and that may be a turn off for some players. Plus if they don't speak French...

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Old
08-08-2012, 03:35 PM
  #56
FreshPerspective
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Cassandra

Nah..this D (HiJLcoward) is gr8! Meltzer is being a "chicken little"

Quote:
Quite simply, Meszaros was an underrated key to the way the Flyers were more or less able to withstand the loss of Chris Pronger after Nov. 19. The Flyers spread playing time among their defensemen more evenly than most NHL teams. The majority of NHL teams had three or four defensemen who averaged over 20 minutes of ice time per game last season.

The Flyers had five (Carle 23:01, Pronger 22:28, Coburn 22:02, Timonen 21:14, Meszaros 20:39). Despite not playing on the power play, Nicklas Grossmann averaged over 18:40 of ice time per game after his arrival from Dallas.

Now that Carle has departed via free agency and the Flyers have lost Meszaros to a torn achilles tendon for anywhere from about half to virtually the entire of the 2012-13 regular season, the Flyers have a major problem on their hands. They have lost 63 points off their blueline and two minutes eating defensemen.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...retty/45/45992


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 08-09-2012 at 01:16 AM.
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Old
08-08-2012, 04:18 PM
  #57
phillyflyerfan1992
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Needs a young puck mover to replace Carle/Timonen.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:25 PM
  #58
CS
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Needs a young puck mover to replace Carle/Timonen.
People better start praying that this is Gus's breakout year.

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