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Old
08-08-2012, 02:31 PM
  #51
Heaton
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Nyquist - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Filppula - Zetterberg - Franzen
Cleary - Helm - Samuelsson
Miller - Abdelkader -Tootoo

Kronwall - Ericsson
Smith - Quincey
Kindl - White

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Old
08-08-2012, 02:32 PM
  #52
WingedWheel1987
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This season will blow if Nyquist has to waste another year in GR.

Get rid of the garbage like Gator or Emmerton.

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08-08-2012, 02:45 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
A least they are fast.

That's what Babs talked out coming in to this offseason; if you aren't big and/or fast, you aren't putting as much pressure to opponents D, you don't wear them done the same way as you would with having to battle with Milan Lucic in the corners or chase Crosby across the rink.
Crosby still plays hockey?

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Old
08-08-2012, 03:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
This season will blow if Nyquist has to waste another year in GR.

Get rid of the garbage like Gator or Emmerton.
Brendan Savage just posted this in the comments of his article, "Sounds like Nyquist is penciled in for Detroit. Holland mentioned him when we were talking today about something else.". Hopefully it happens.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....gs_prospe.html

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08-08-2012, 03:34 PM
  #55
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I think it will come down to Brunner or Nyquist

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08-08-2012, 03:35 PM
  #56
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Nyquist Samuelsson and maybe Brunner, if he looks good, will probably be juggled in and out the top 6, depending on who is hot or not. Samuelsson will probably just bounce between the third and second line while the others might bounce out to the AHL.

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Old
08-08-2012, 03:37 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
I am sure if these kids have a great camp that they will get time on the top 6. I just have my doubts as to whether they will flourish. Not sure why everyone wants to hand them the spot. I would much rather they earn it with their performance just like players have always been expected to do.
I think that instead of it being a situation where a lot of us on the board want to hand the kids a spot, it's actually us cringing at the thought of Bert and Cleary in the top 6 for the season- we've already seen what they can do, and more to the point, what they can't. I'm hoping that both Nyquist and Brunner have great camps to the point where it forces Babcock and Holland to keep them up and in offensive roles on the team. But let's face it, if it comes down a competition of who can leave the most blind drop passes behind that turn into rushes the other way, Bert's got a spot sewed up tight!

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Old
08-08-2012, 03:47 PM
  #58
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Just play Brunner and Nyquist in the top six. Let Sammy rot on the third line where he belongs. Sammy/Helm/Bert doesnt sound awful.

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08-08-2012, 04:43 PM
  #59
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I think we will definitely see some line juggling through out the entire season, and by some i mean a lot.

Personally i would love to see this opening night.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner(assuming he transitions like babs thinks)
Cleary/Bertuzzi-Helm-Samuelsson
Eaves/Miller-Abdelkator-Tootoo
Mursak/Emmerton

Kronwall-Ericsson
Quincey-White
Kindl-Smith

Howard
Monster

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:06 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winger7020 View Post
I think we will definitely see some line juggling through out the entire season, and by some i mean a lot.

Personally i would love to see this opening night.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner(assuming he transitions like babs thinks)
Cleary/Bertuzzi-Helm-Samuelsson
Eaves/Miller-Abdelkator-Tootoo
Mursak/Emmerton

Kronwall-Ericsson
Quincey-White
Kindl-Smith

Howard
Monster
Agree 100%

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:31 PM
  #61
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I don't even understand why we are in this predicament. If you play 1 year in the AHL and prove yourself and produce, you should be on the roster next year. Similar to how we handled Filppula. Nyquist just set the franchise rookie scoring record, and would have finished top 5 in the AHL in points if he played there all year. And here we are with 16 forwards, and we are going to send him down again most likely.

Holland needs to learn how to let guys walk. His love of old, declining, marginally-skilled forwards/players is starting to cost us.


Last edited by Frk It: 08-08-2012 at 05:47 PM.
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Old
08-08-2012, 05:41 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think you're going to see Babcock do everything he can to get right-handed shots on the right wing.
I expect Brunner, Sammy and Tootoo to be on the top three lines.
He's probably less concerned about about a right-hander on line 4, but even there, Mursak and/or Eaves could walk in.

Babcock is the one who made "right-hand" shot a big deal after the season. Babcock is the guy who brought over Brunner.

The problem with this, obviously, is that a guy like Nyquist might get bumped down to 4th line or the AHL because we have so many left-handed wingers
Flip/Franzen/Bertuzzi/Cleary and on and on and on.
If I think this scenario, I'd put Filppula back to centre to get really balanced offense.

Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Brunner
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Samuelsson
Franzen - Filppula - Eaves/Mursak
Akader/Miller - Helm - Tootoo

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08-08-2012, 05:43 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
If I think this scenario, I'd put Filppula back to centre to get really balanced offense.

Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Brunner
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Samuelsson
Franzen - Filppula - Eaves/Mursak
Akader/Miller - Helm - Tootoo
You have no Cleary in your lineup, one of Babcock's favorite players.

As CB stated, it is highly unlikely Brunner and Nyquist start the year in Detroit.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:43 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I think Hudler's gone partly because his physical traits don't match a direction the Wings wanted to go. Coming into this offseason, the Wings kept talking about getting more physical, more speed and more right handers. Every guy they signed brought at least one of those things. Parise would have been the lone exception, but he was also the best forward on the market.
Parise is crazy fast, so there's that. But Hudler may not match the physical traits... but sometimes you have to throw that out. If you follow the "big, fast, right-handed" motto, Holland wouldn't have tried to sign a prime Wayne Gretzky if he were available this summer. That's NOT MEANT AS A COMPARISON, just to make things clear, but signing guys based only on size, speed, and which side they shoot from is NOT a recipe for success.

With Carle, I just don't think they see him as a significant upgrade over what we have or what's left on the market. And he's a lefty. Considering that a short term fix could be fine, going with someone like Rozsival/Kubina for a year instead of locking into Carle for six might make more sense.
[/quote]

Carle was the only defenseman on the market anywhere near Suter's level. He's also young. Getting him means we have another highly skilled young-ish defenseman. Carle-level and age defenseman are hard to come by as UFA and it would have been a great pickup, but Holland didn't even TRY (or at least there are no reports of any attempt).

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I'd have been willing to roll the dice on Semin, especially for the one year deal he signed with Carolina, because the ceiling is so high. I'm less thrilled about adding guys like Wellwood because I'd rather just leave that space open for Nyquist and/or some other kid (Tatar, Sheahan, Andersson).
Semin I would have been fine with. Thrilled, actually, once Huds went to Calgary and the top-sixers started disappearing. As for Wellwood, he's under 30 and has scored 40 points three times, including a 42 in 48 effort in 2006-07 with the Leafs. He's a 55+% faceoffs guy and can play both center or the wing; so he could be used as a 3C or Flip could return there with Wellwood taking a top-six wing spot as a scorer and as the "extra" faceoff guy. Spending a little under $2m on him is a better bet than $1.4m on the "maybe" Brunner.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:44 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
You have no Cleary in your lineup, one of Babcock's favorite players.

As CB stated, it is highly unlikely Brunner and Nyquist start the year in Detroit.
Which is completely moronic if that ends up happening. This roster needs to get the young players as much ice time as possible. Cleary, Bert and Sammy should not be on this team.

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08-08-2012, 05:49 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
You have no Cleary in your lineup, one of Babcock's favorite players.
God damned, it's so easy to forgot him.

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Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Question is, which team has a logjam on D and not enough depth F's?
Definitely New Jersey. They need bottom6 wingers.

They have also this financial problem, that could force them to shed some salary. Anton Volchenkov is a little bit overpriced, but his contract wouldn't hurt the Wings at all, so Holland should make a push for him. Volchenkov is exactly what we need.

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Old
08-08-2012, 07:07 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Macoun View Post

Jurco, tatar, Kindl, emmerton, pulk and 1st round pick for ryan
Did Bobby Ryan morph into a mix of Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe and Batman overnight?

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08-08-2012, 07:39 PM
  #68
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Sick of seeing that, eh?

Okay, Samuelsson is a better player than Hudler and he plays the type of game that helps teams win in the playoffs.
No argument here.

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08-08-2012, 07:51 PM
  #69
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I don't know if you guys remember Franzen- Zetterberg- Nyquist line in pre season, but against Pittsburgh's second line they dominated. So I'd like something like

Filppula- Datsyuk- Brunner
Nyquist- Zetterberg- Franzen
Cleary- Helm- Samuelsson
Abdelkader- Emmerton- Tootoo
Bertuzzi and Cleary switch to stay fresh
Miller/Eaves/Mursak

Kronwall- Smith (Another great pairing when the played together)
Quincey- White
Ericsson- Kindl

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08-08-2012, 07:59 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
I don't know if you guys remember Franzen- Zetterberg- Nyquist line in pre season, but against Pittsburgh's second line they dominated. So I'd like something like

Filppula- Datsyuk- Brunner
Nyquist- Zetterberg- Franzen
Cleary- Helm- Samuelsson
Abdelkader- Emmerton- Tootoo
Bertuzzi and Cleary switch to stay fresh
Miller/Eaves/Mursak

Kronwall- Smith (Another great pairing when the played together)
Quincey- White
Ericsson- Kindl
Really like the idea and the concept, but it will never happen.


Last edited by Frk It: 08-08-2012 at 08:01 PM. Reason: misread the post
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Old
08-08-2012, 08:00 PM
  #71
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This is what I think will happen.

Bertuzzi-Dastyuk-Brunner/Nyquist (I think one starts the year in GR sadly)
Franzen-Zetterberg-Filppula
Cleary-Helm-Samuelsson
Tootoo-Abdelkader-Miller
2 of Eaves/Emmerton/Mursak

Kronwall-Ericsson
Quincey-White
Smith-Kindl

Howard
Gustavsson

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Old
08-08-2012, 08:22 PM
  #72
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Who is the most stay at home guy we have now that Nick and Stu are gone? White? I think it may be a good idea to keep White and Nik together. That way Kronner won't have to adjust. It'd be easier to keep a stay at home guy beside Nik to let him pinch the way we know he's good at. Let White sit back and watch the last guy, look out for turnovers so no one gets a breakaway, etc. Let him be the guy who skates back at the first sign of trouble, like Stu was. And that way White doesn't have too much offensive responsibility, and isn't playing with a much different player from Nick. And Nik can go for the hits he likes to go for once in awhile and not worry. But our forwards cover for him there, too so it's usually all good.

I think we'll juggle the other four until something clicks.

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08-08-2012, 08:26 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
Who is the most stay at home guy we have now that Nick and Stu are gone? White? I think it may be a good idea to keep White and Nik together. That way Kronner won't have to adjust. It'd be easier to keep a stay at home guy beside Nik to let him pinch the way we know he's good at. Let White sit back and watch the last guy, look out for turnovers so no one gets a breakaway, etc. Let him be the guy who skates back at the first sign of trouble, like Stu was. And that way White doesn't have too much offensive responsibility, and isn't playing with a much different player from Nick. And Nik can go for the hits he likes to go for once in awhile and not worry. But our forwards cover for him there, too so it's usually all good.

I think we'll juggle the other four until something clicks.
Ericsson is our most stay at home, defensive D, at the moment. Believe it or not lol.

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08-08-2012, 08:28 PM
  #74
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Yeah I actually kind of agree with that. He was damn good defensively last year and didn't really piss me off much. I was very impressed.

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08-08-2012, 09:45 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Parise is crazy fast, so there's that. But Hudler may not match the physical traits... but sometimes you have to throw that out. If you follow the "big, fast, right-handed" motto, Holland wouldn't have tried to sign a prime Wayne Gretzky if he were available this summer. That's NOT MEANT AS A COMPARISON, just to make things clear, but signing guys based only on size, speed, and which side they shoot from is NOT a recipe for success.

Carle was the only defenseman on the market anywhere near Suter's level. He's also young. Getting him means we have another highly skilled young-ish defenseman. Carle-level and age defenseman are hard to come by as UFA and it would have been a great pickup, but Holland didn't even TRY (or at least there are no reports of any attempt).

Semin I would have been fine with. Thrilled, actually, once Huds went to Calgary and the top-sixers started disappearing. As for Wellwood, he's under 30 and has scored 40 points three times, including a 42 in 48 effort in 2006-07 with the Leafs. He's a 55+% faceoffs guy and can play both center or the wing; so he could be used as a 3C or Flip could return there with Wellwood taking a top-six wing spot as a scorer and as the "extra" faceoff guy. Spending a little under $2m on him is a better bet than $1.4m on the "maybe" Brunner.
If you're not wanting to use Gretzky as a comparison, probably shouldn't bring him up. That's not the problem with this, though. The problem is that the guy Holland did sign (Samuelsson) will in all likelihood match Hudler's production here while meeting a couple of those traits mentioned earlier. It's not like Holland signed Ethan Moreau to take Hudler's spot.

With Carle I think you're being a bit generous with the Suter comparison (I think Quincey is a better comp, and that's not a knock - I don't have any real problems with Quincey). Carle's biggest positives were that he's young and he was the best of a mediocre lot after Suter signed. I still don't have a problem with Holland not getting involved in that.

And Wellwood's 06/07 year is now six years in the past. He put up some numbers in Winnipeg last year, which is good for him. But I wouldn't chalk his 40 points last year up as something he can return to on a permanent basis. It's more likely his shot percentage dips from the 19% he was sniping at last year, and his production falls back into the .35 area he was in the three or four years prior to that.

It's nothing against Wellwood, but I'd still rather roll the dice with a relative unknown in Brunner at that point. at least with Brunner there is the chance for something special. With Wellwood, it's more of a known quantity, but nothing that's going to put us over the top or likely to be much of an investment down the road.

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