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Free Agent Talk (Part XV): The Non-Frenzy Edition

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Old
08-08-2012, 02:58 PM
  #101
Lundsanity30
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3 maybe. and I also don't see either Van or Pitt going 4 either

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08-08-2012, 02:59 PM
  #102
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Thanks.

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Old
08-08-2012, 03:42 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think Sather would do 3 as long as the cap hit is reasonable.
Whats a reasonable cap hit for a 35 year old 50 point player who is declining offensively?

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Old
08-08-2012, 03:53 PM
  #104
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Whats a reasonable cap hit for a 35 year old 50 point player who is declining offensively?
I know it's definitely NOT 7.5m (30 million over 4 years).

If it takes more than 2 years, RUN as far away from Doan as fast as you possibly can. Would rather wait until the CBA is settled, see who becomes available thru compliance rules, or wait until the trade deadline, whenever that will be.

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08-08-2012, 03:54 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Whats a reasonable cap hit for a 35 year old 50 point player who is declining offensively?
For 3 years I wouldn't sign him at all...

2 years max at like 5mill, but Doan will probably get a longer offer.

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Old
08-08-2012, 03:56 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Whats a reasonable cap hit for a 35 year old 50 point player who is declining offensively?
3.75-4 would be my max. I would try to get it down to 3.5.

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08-08-2012, 03:59 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
3.75-4 would be my max. I would try to get it down to 3.5.
If its 3 years or more, I wouldnt even give him that.

Doans a 50 point player with a ton of mileage on him right now. Whats it going to look like in 3 seasons when hes approaching 40? That money could be used to give raises due to a few of our younger guys. Have you seen who is up for new contracts in the next 3 years? Its basically the entire team.

Why anyone would want to severely limit the cap flexibility with a 35+ contract is beyond me.

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Old
08-08-2012, 04:17 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Really worked hard for that Henrik analogy? Impressive, really.

You see, I would be talking out of my ass if I didn't back up my opinion with, I don't know, those stat thingies. Boyle's poor stats just reinforce what I observed last season.
His stats aren't poor in context--a third line center who is regularly matched against the opposition's best forwards, while starting an overwhelming percentage of his shifts in his own end. Looking simply at goals and assists isn't a reliable indicator of a player's value. It's like determining how valuable a shortstop is by looking at his BA and RBI, while ignoring his place in the lineup and his defensive contributions. You're just not looking at the complete picture.

Not liking Boyle is fine, that's your prerogative. Saying he sucks is asinine.

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08-08-2012, 04:18 PM
  #109
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I like Doan at the right price and the right terms.

But my gut tells me that someone is going to severely overpay for him this summer.

Some teams are so desperate to make some move, any move, that it's like logic has gone out the window this summer.

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08-08-2012, 04:25 PM
  #110
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It's been debated in other threads, but I really don't think Boyle is a bad third line center. He's not God's gift to the position, but he's good.

Over the last two seasons Anisimov scored 34 goals.

Dubinsky scored 34 goals.

Boyle scored 32 goals.

But we have this idea that somehow Boyle's 21 goals were a fluke, that Anisimov is going to turn it around any season now and that Dubinsky can still be the player we thought he was going to be. The reality is that a lot of it is perception.

We also have the perception that we have to have the best player in every position in order to win a cup, which I also don't agree with.

Right now, on paper, the worst the Rangers are in any particular area is average. They are also above average in many more areas.

At worst, I'd say our third line is average. But considering the top end talent, our defense and our goaltending, I'm really not worried.

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Old
08-08-2012, 04:30 PM
  #111
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Old
08-08-2012, 04:38 PM
  #112
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Starting the season, it will almost certainly be Boyle.

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Old
08-08-2012, 04:48 PM
  #113
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you: There's no Brian Boyle is inadequate as a 3rd line center thread yet

me: Every thread is a Brian Boyle is inadequate as a 3rd line center thread!

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:00 PM
  #114
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my thoughts on the latest doan rumor is that if he was offered 4 years, $28 mil from a team he wants to play for he would have signed already. that offer no doubt came from a non-contending team that he doesn't want to play for that knew they had to overpay big time to have a chance to get him. now his agent is trying to get legit contenders that have no interest in paying that much to bid against it.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:24 PM
  #115
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Another reason why I am apprehensive about Doan, Jerome Iginla could be moved at the trade deadline this year. Calgary could give him away for peanuts so he can try to win his cup(ala Bourque).

Who would you rather have? Doan or Iginla for a cup run?

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:27 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Another reason why I am apprehensive about Doan, Jerome Iginla could be moved at the trade deadline this year. Calgary could give him away for peanuts so he can try to win his cup(ala Bourque).

Who would you rather have? Doan or Iginla for a cup run?
Jerome Iginla could have been moved the last 5 trade deadlines as well.

And also why the hell would Calgary move him for peanuts just to satisfy him. Calgary has always said that it would take quite a bit to acquire Iginla. I'm sure that would be the case even for an impending UFA. They have to think about the future of their franchise not pleasing their captain.

Iginla won't be traded.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Another reason why I am apprehensive about Doan, Jerome Iginla could be moved at the trade deadline this year. Calgary could give him away for peanuts so he can try to win his cup(ala Bourque).

Who would you rather have? Doan or Iginla for a cup run?
Iggy for sure. Doesn't hamper future RFA signings, and he can sign with Calgary next summer if he isnt done yet and wants to retire there.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:29 PM
  #118
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Sportsnet is using the Pat Leonard article as their source. They reprinted the article on their site. Stop coaching Pat refers to the Rangers as a favorite. Look at the headline.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...icle-1.1131335

How can he write the article without mentioning its a 35 plus contract?

Torts called some of the media guys following the Rangers "idiots". For a good reason.

Brooks wrote on Sunday it was believed Rangers,Pitt and Vancouver were the teams on Doan's list. The next day,it was all over the internets.

Doan wants a 4 year contract. You really think Sather is handing out a 35 plus 4 year contract?

SJ was told it has to be a 4 year contract.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:31 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Another reason why I am apprehensive about Doan, Jerome Iginla could be moved at the trade deadline this year. Calgary could give him away for peanuts so he can try to win his cup(ala Bourque).

Who would you rather have? Doan or Iginla for a cup run?
definitely something to consider that there might be better options available midseason...but i think calgary will want alot for iginla

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:37 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
His stats aren't poor in context--a third line center who is regularly matched against the opposition's best forwards, while starting an overwhelming percentage of his shifts in his own end. Looking simply at goals and assists isn't a reliable indicator of a player's value. It's like determining how valuable a shortstop is by looking at his BA and RBI, while ignoring his place in the lineup and his defensive contributions. You're just not looking at the complete picture.

Not liking Boyle is fine, that's your prerogative. Saying he sucks is asinine.


This is the standard "goals and points aren't everything" BS people used to say about Drury.

Boyle scored one goal in his last 25 games of 2011, which was a career year.

He scored six goals through his first 73 games in 2012.


For those keeping score at home, that's seven goals in 98 games.

Seven goals in 98 games for a guy playing anywhere from 2nd to 3rd line minutes.

Boyle finished 32nd in faceoff pct in the playoffs. That's out of 52 skaters.

Boyle placed 240th among eligible forwards in shooting pct. 2-4-0. That's out of 281 eligible forwards.

All Boyle does is block shots and pin people against the boards. That's it. He's a good penalty killer. A lot of guys around the league are good penalty killers. That doesnt mean they should see PP time and ice time when his team's down a goal with under three mins to play.

Again, you like throwing around things like "asinine" and "talking out of your ass" but you're the one who isn't supporting your argument for Boyle with anything substantial.

Boyle has no skill. I know what I see. He sucks, and the stats back it up. That doesn't mean you have to cry and take his poster off your wall.


Last edited by GWOW: 08-08-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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Old
08-08-2012, 05:45 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
This is the standard "goals and points aren't everything" BS people used to say about Drury.

Boyle scored one goal in his last 25 games of 2011, which was a career year.

He scored six goals through his first 73 games in 2012.


For those keeping score at home, that's seven goals in 98 games.

Seven goals in 98 games for a guy playing anywhere from 2nd to 2rd line minutes.

Boyle finished 32nd in faceoff pct in the playoffs. That's out of 52 skaters.

Boyle placed 240th among eligible forwards in shooting pct. 2-4-0. That's out of 281 eligible forwards.

All Boyle does is block shots and pin people against the boards. That's it. He's a good penalty killer. A lot of guys around the league are good penalty killers. That doesnt mean they should see PP time and ice time when his team's down a goal with under three mins to play.

Again, you like throwing around things like "asinine" and "talking out of your ass" but you're the one who isn't supporting your argument for Boyle with anything substantial.

Boyle has no skill. I know what I see. He sucks, and the stats back it up. That doesn't mean you have to cry and take his poster off your wall.
How do the stats back it up? He's around 90th amongst centers in points which is on average with the average 3rd line center, but he does this while starting 28.8% of his shifts in the defensive end. He does not suck, what a ridiculous comment.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:50 PM
  #122
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The way i look at this is, If doan was in it for the money (or if money was a big issue anyway) he would have taken that ridiculous 30mill contract and ran...So it comes down to

1) staying in PHX
2) picking a contender

That being said, I think its down to NYR or VAN. pittsburgh is not a terrible choice at all but i'm thinking for doan it will be about either going home or going to the team that finished #1 in the east and 1pt behind for #1 in the entire league that added rick nash to their roster

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:56 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
How do the stats back it up? He's around 90th amongst centers in points which is on average with the average 3rd line center, but he does this while starting 28.8% of his shifts in the defensive end. He does not suck, what a ridiculous comment.
It isnt average is 89 other centers are outproducing you.

Do the math. There are 30 teams in the NHL, anywhere from 90-120 centers who play consistently at the position

top-30 1st liners/tweeners

top-31 to 60 2nd liners/tweeners

top-61 to 91 3rd liners/tweeners

That means he ranks at the bottom of practically all 3rd line centers from a production standpoint.

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:58 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
This is the standard "goals and points aren't everything" BS people used to say about Drury.

Boyle scored one goal in his last 25 games of 2011, which was a career year.

He scored six goals through his first 73 games in 2012.


For those keeping score at home, that's seven goals in 98 games.

Seven goals in 98 games for a guy playing anywhere from 2nd to 3rd line minutes.

Boyle finished 32nd in faceoff pct in the playoffs. That's out of 52 skaters.

Boyle placed 240th among eligible forwards in shooting pct. 2-4-0. That's out of 281 eligible forwards.

All Boyle does is block shots and pin people against the boards. That's it. He's a good penalty killer. A lot of guys around the league are good penalty killers. That doesnt mean they should see PP time and ice time when his team's down a goal with under three mins to play.

Again, you like throwing around things like "asinine" and "talking out of your ass" but you're the one who isn't supporting your argument for Boyle with anything substantial.

Boyle has no skill. I know what I see. He sucks, and the stats back it up. That doesn't mean you have to cry and take his poster off your wall.
It never ceases to astound me that people can watch hockey for years, and still not recognize what they're watching - specifically when it comes to assigning value and a role to players. This is a perfect example of that.

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Old
08-08-2012, 06:02 PM
  #125
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Prust got 2.5 million and he actually sucked more than Boyle.

Boyle is up for UFA in 2014. So are the guys who actually have skill. Kreider is an RFA.

So yeah, hopefully Boyle goes. By that time one of the younger centers should be ready to take over.

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