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Old
08-07-2012, 11:32 AM
  #26
unbridledid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
A couple of Tallon's drafts turned out to be really bad drafts overall. Especially 2007. Of course, that may turn out to be the case for some of Stan's draft classes too....time will tell.

But in the end...it's the same scouts drafting for both of these guys. GM's are best judged on their signings (both free agent and internal) and trades.


That is true as well but Stan wants to build through the draft.. His trades and signings have not been close to big news... He is taking a very conservative approach... I tend to agree with it, but I understand the postion(s) of those who do not.

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08-07-2012, 11:38 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unbridledid View Post
[/B]

That is true as well but Stan wants to build through the draft.. His trades and signings have not been close to big news... He is taking a very conservative approach... I tend to agree with it, but I understand the postion(s) of those who do not.
The approach you outlined has absolutely nothing to do with making free agent acquisitions, even if only short term ones or constantly saying "the team is complete, the team is great, they just need to play better and the coaches need to coach better."

Stan's development strategy is a good one. His strategy for making the NHL team better or just flat out ignorance to team needs is bizzare to say the least.

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08-07-2012, 11:46 AM
  #28
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[QUOTE=coldsteelonice84;53352187]The approach you outlined has absolutely nothing to do with making free agent acquisitions, even if only short term ones or constantly saying "the team is complete, the team is great, they just need to play better and the coaches need to coach better."

Can't disagree with the first part... I don't know if he said the team is "complete" or "great".. I tend to think your dislike for Stan clouds your thinking.


"Stan's development strategy is a good one. His strategy for making the NHL team better or just flat out ignorance to team needs is bizzare to say the least."

Well if the development strategy is good then how couldn't it help the team ? I understand that it cannot help immediately (though I think a prospect or two may get a job this season)... but if you think assets are developing well then it will make the team better.

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08-07-2012, 11:48 AM
  #29
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I think he means that maybe a better effort to compete for a cup could be made, while also letting all these prospects develop. It's doesn't have to be black or white...there are shades of gray that can work.

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08-07-2012, 11:55 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I think he means that maybe a better effort to compete for a cup could be made, while also letting all these prospects develop. It's doesn't have to be black or white...there are shades of gray that can work.

Ah the shades of grey... I suppose then the disagreement is about the specific shade of grey.

I doubt Stan is all one way... but he does lean in a direction..

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08-07-2012, 02:28 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
All of those guys were first or 2nd round picks. Tallon didn't have 40 first or second round picks.
in the end, it's still better than Tallons drafting. This can't be argued. Just look at Tallons drafts

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08-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #32
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If Tallon was a bad drafter, he would have ****ed up on Toews / Kane, at least Toews, that could have gone a lot of different ways. He was OK. Bowman definitely looks good so far, but we've seen nothing yet.

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08-07-2012, 02:35 PM
  #33
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those were gimme picks. We've been over this a thousand times. Tallon was a bad drafter for us, you can't argue with this. Just look at those drafts and how many picks he wasted

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08-07-2012, 03:26 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Care to elaborate? No... never mind.
Holl was drafted six spots before Johns and has had a significantly better career to date. Adam Clendening and Dillon Fournier are two other Hawks defensive prospects with actual upside.

Stephen Johns looks like a poor-man's Mark Mitera or Ryan Stanton to me.

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08-07-2012, 05:42 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
those were gimme picks. We've been over this a thousand times. Tallon was a bad drafter for us, you can't argue with this. Just look at those drafts and how many picks he wasted
It's hopeless arguing that with ColdSteel. If Bowman was not the GM right now, he would agree with you that Tallon's drafts suck.

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08-07-2012, 05:55 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Holl was drafted six spots before Johns and has had a significantly better career to date. Adam Clendening and Dillon Fournier are two other Hawks defensive prospects with actual upside.

Stephen Johns looks like a poor-man's Mark Mitera or Ryan Stanton to me.
Stephen Johns will most definately have a larger physical impact than Ryan Stanton. I don't think Johns will be anything more than a #5 Dman in the NHL.. but I think he'll be a very good #5 Dman. A guy that knows his role on the team and is more than willing to play that role to the best of his ability. Physicallity, blocking shots, sticking up for teammates. He's a guy you want on your team, even if he's only playing 12-14 minutes a night.

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08-07-2012, 05:58 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Holl was drafted six spots before Johns and has had a significantly better career to date. Adam Clendening and Dillon Fournier are two other Hawks defensive prospects with actual upside.

Stephen Johns looks like a poor-man's Mark Mitera or Ryan Stanton to me.
Ummm. Their career starts when(if) they make the NHL. And who gives a dam about what other's have done; assuming he gets there, it's what Johns does when he is ready for the NHL that counts.

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08-07-2012, 06:17 PM
  #38
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Stephen Johns is so much better than Justin Holl that it is hilarious that anyone would say otherwise. Certainly no one who has watched them both play a decent amount of time would even dare to say that.

Why did Johns make the US WJC team and Holl didn't?

Oh wait I know, because Holl is terrible. Johns is more physical and way better defensively. Holl is good at nothing. I can't believe someone would seriously make that comment. Holl was an awful draft pick and Johns was the only great one of the 1st two rounds.

Kevin Hayes: meh pick(so much better talent available)
Ludvig Rensfeldt: laughably horrible pick and disgrace
Justin Holl: bad pick. Hasn't done jack, not great offensively or defensively.
Kent Simpson: Bad pick so far... SV% has gone down every singly year since being drafted.
Stephen Johns: The only good pick. Almost a sure NHLer and just what the Hawks need.

If you really think Johns will be Ryan Stanton...well, this is will be considered the worst draft of all time for the Hawks. 5 picks in the top 60 and a whole bunch of crap. Just pray Kevin Hayes hits his potential I guess.


Last edited by RomersWorld*: 08-07-2012 at 06:24 PM.
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Old
08-07-2012, 06:54 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Stephen Johns is so much better than Justin Holl that it is hilarious that anyone would say otherwise. Certainly no one who has watched them both play a decent amount of time would even dare to say that.

Why did Johns make the US WJC team and Holl didn't?

Oh wait I know, because Holl is terrible. Johns is more physical and way better defensively. Holl is good at nothing. I can't believe someone would seriously make that comment. Holl was an awful draft pick and Johns was the only great one of the 1st two rounds.

Kevin Hayes: meh pick(so much better talent available)
Ludvig Rensfeldt: laughably horrible pick and disgrace
Justin Holl: bad pick. Hasn't done jack, not great offensively or defensively.
Kent Simpson: Bad pick so far... SV% has gone down every singly year since being drafted.
Stephen Johns: The only good pick. Almost a sure NHLer and just what the Hawks need.

If you really think Johns will be Ryan Stanton...well, this is will be considered the worst draft of all time for the Hawks. 5 picks in the top 60 and a whole bunch of crap. Just pray Kevin Hayes hits his potential I guess.
You're overly-defensive response has more than a few laughable agruments in it.

Rensfeldt was coming off a great season in Sweden and a great U-18's. He was a good pick at the time, he just didn't pan out. It's still too early with Kevin Hayes, but he has gotten better since being drafted; he was and remains a project. Kent Simpson's played on one of the worst teams in the WHL the past two years, using any of his stats in an argument that he's somehow not gotten any better or regressed is ridiculous. Justin Holl is a big guy with good skating ability, who can transition the puck. He hasn't put up big points, but he's not really an offensive Dman anyways (And I'm not a Holl fan).

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08-08-2012, 12:52 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Kent Simpson: Bad pick so far... SV% has gone down every singly year since being drafted.
no wonder... his team got worse every single year

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08-08-2012, 12:33 PM
  #41
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Someone makes a topic about our good prospects.

It somehow turns into a Tallon vs Bowman conversation within one page.

Never change, Hawks board....

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08-08-2012, 01:27 PM
  #42
Bubba88
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nothing else going on during the dog days...

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Old
08-08-2012, 01:32 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Someone makes a topic about our good prospects.

It somehow turns into a Tallon vs Bowman conversation within one page.

Never change, Hawks board....
Pulford was a unifying force, so was WWW. We took it for granted for so many years.

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Old
08-08-2012, 04:25 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Teräväinen beasted out against USA team blue at lake placid. He was most dangerous player out there. Created chances in every shift and made ridiculous passes. Has very nice skating and hands. At this point he seems to be homerun pick and has superstar potential if he pans out. I like him more than Mikael Granlund. Wouldn't be suprised if he's top 3-5 prospect in the NHL by end of the year. Nice effort in D aswell. There is alot of scouts praising him at Twitter right now. I would compare his playing style to Giroux. Teräväinen was better than Galchenyuk by fair margin.
its an exhibition game...

you really cant take away much positive or negative this early on and in this relaxed atmosphere...

sure players are playing for their name to make their respective countries WJC teams, but lets not get out of hand here...

I will agree that TT has looked very solid and has the opportunity to be a real steal for the Hawks...comparing him in any way shape or form at this early point to a Giroux or anyone is just setting this kid up for unreachable expectations and unecessary pressure.

lets see how he does after the WJC, including his first 15-20 games of the regular season before we annoint him a top 3-5 prospect overall.

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Old
08-08-2012, 04:29 PM
  #45
Sir Psycho T
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Since picking Hasek the Hawks haven't been able to draft any goalie who made any difference with this team, they drafted a few like Anderson who they let go and made a difference elsewhere but no drafted Hawks goalie has done anything with and for the Hawks. (Niemi was a FA not a draft pick so he doesn't count)

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Old
08-08-2012, 04:32 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Holl was drafted six spots before Johns and has had a significantly better career to date. Adam Clendening and Dillon Fournier are two other Hawks defensive prospects with actual upside.

Stephen Johns looks like a poor-man's Mark Mitera or Ryan Stanton to me.
I dont see how you could say one player or the other has had a significantly better career to date then the other.

Personally anyone knocking Johns and saying he reminds themself of a Mark Mitera is absolutely crazy. Johns plays nothing like Mitera who played in the mold of a Kevin Clare and Robbie Russo USNDP prototype vanilla dman.

Johns is a man among boys. His game isnt offense, yet if you combine his 2 years against Holl's, Johns actually has more points....and a boat load more hits, penalty minutes, and better defensive play.

I like Holl and see him as a late bloomer who should spend all 4 years in college, but for a kid that is supposedly better with the puck then without, I find it alarming that his numbers are below that of a stay at home dman in Johns...

I think Johns is a lock in our top 6 next year as we simply have nothing like him, I cant say the same for Holl in probably the next 3 years as he really needs to step up and be that two way force that we were hoping to get on draft day.

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Old
08-09-2012, 12:36 AM
  #47
Bubba88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Since picking Hasek the Hawks haven't been able to draft any goalie who made any difference with this team, they drafted a few like Anderson who they let go and made a difference elsewhere but no drafted Hawks goalie has done anything with and for the Hawks. (Niemi was a FA not a draft pick so he doesn't count)
show me... what goalie has BOS, TB, TOR drafted

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08-09-2012, 03:19 AM
  #48
Sir Psycho T
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
show me... what goalie has BOS, TB, TOR drafted
Who gives a *. I didn't realize we where talking about BOS, TB or TOR.

What was the point your trying to make anyway?

If your so concerned about their lack of drafting goalies go to their boards, because I couldn't care less what they do.

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Old
08-09-2012, 04:36 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Who gives a *. I didn't realize we where talking about BOS, TB or TOR.

What was the point your trying to make anyway?

If your so concerned about their lack of drafting goalies go to their boards, because I couldn't care less what they do.
Obvious point is that solely being brought into the teams system via DRAFTING doesn't matter over any other means. So what if Neimi was picked up via a signing. It's about acquiring the talent. Rask is with Boston, traded for or not, doesn't mean squat if they didn't draft him.

Adding a prospect that pans out anyway is a success not belittling if not drafted. Even if the mentality is building through the draft, the FA-Trade prospects equally relevant because it's really building through prospects.. the line about using the draft is just the easy sound bite catch phrase.


Last edited by ClydeLee: 08-09-2012 at 04:45 AM.
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Old
08-09-2012, 05:38 AM
  #50
Bubba88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Who gives a *. I didn't realize we where talking about BOS, TB or TOR.

What was the point your trying to make anyway?

If your so concerned about their lack of drafting goalies go to their boards, because I couldn't care less what they do.
see post above

BOS & TB has won the Cup without any drafted goalie prospect by them. Your point is again pointless

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