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Free Agent Talk (Part XV): The Non-Frenzy Edition

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Old
08-08-2012, 06:08 PM
  #126
GWOW
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
It never ceases to astound me that people can watch hockey for years, and still not recognize what they're watching - specifically when it comes to assigning value and a role to players. This is a perfect example of that.
It never ceases to amaze me how poor some of the reading programs are in schools across our great nation.

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Boyle is a replaceable part. He's valuable but if he struggles for 3/4 of the season for the 2nd year in a row, he'll probably be elsewhere.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=948

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Boyle has a role on this team, I just don't think he should be playing 16 mins a night up the middle when he doesnt create plays, is marginal on d-zone faceoffs and turns the puck over.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=53028963&postcount=73

Yeah. So, uh. Yeah.

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08-08-2012, 06:14 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how poor some of the reading programs are in schools across our great nation.



http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=948



http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=53028963&postcount=73

Yeah. So, uh. Yeah.
Well, I guess its just a case of multiple personalities then. Must be if youre saying hes valuable in one post and then that hes worthless/sucks in the next.

My opinion is just that you're confused and simply have zero idea regarding the wide-ranging role of a 3rd line center.

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Old
08-08-2012, 06:16 PM
  #128
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Back on topic,

Arnott and Doan should still be people of interest for Both Vancouver and the Rangers.

Doan plays RW, and gaborik is out until December. Nobody knows how long it will take him to get into his elite form.

Kesler is out until December. Samey same. Doan would be a nice stop-gap.

The money makes zero sense. The idea of adding the player does. We'll see if they can find a happy medium.

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Old
08-08-2012, 06:24 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well, I guess its just a case of multiple personalities then. Must be if youre saying hes valuable in one post and then that hes worthless/sucks in the next.

My opinion is just that you're confused and simply have zero idea regarding the wide-ranging role of a 3rd line center.
A guy can have value and still suck. Dave Righetti was a valuable closer but he sucked. Joba Chamberlain has value but he sucks. Aaron Ross had value when all the Giants got hurt, and he royally sucked. Herb Williams sucked and had value when Ewing was hurt/suspended.

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08-08-2012, 06:24 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how poor some of the reading programs are in schools across our great nation.



http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=948



http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=53028963&postcount=73

Yeah. So, uh. Yeah.
A player who has value does not suck. One of the best defensive forwards and one of the best penalty killers on one of the best defensive teams in the league does not suck.

As I said originally, I have no problem with someone disliking Boyle, thinking we could do better on the third line, etc. Those are all valid criticisms to some degree. It's the statement that "he sucks" that I (and apparently others) have taken issue with. He's a player that is asked to perform a specific task, and he does it fairly well. I don't see any objective analysis that could lead someone to say that he sucks.

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Old
08-08-2012, 06:39 PM
  #131
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George Carlin was right...******* Baby Boomers!

Anyway, I wonder if Jason Arnott's agent contacted the Rangers...or vice versa.

Hmmmmmmmm.

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Old
08-08-2012, 07:31 PM
  #132
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honestly at this point screw doan and the minimum 3 years 5 million he is going to cost us, i think i would really rather have arnott for 1 or 2 years at 2 million. Obviously doan is better at this point but who knows 1 year from now? I just think arnott is the smarter,cheaper option at this time.

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Old
08-08-2012, 08:13 PM
  #133
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Arnott is slow and old. No thanks.

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Old
08-08-2012, 09:03 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
It's been debated in other threads, but I really don't think Boyle is a bad third line center. He's not God's gift to the position, but he's good.

Over the last two seasons Anisimov scored 34 goals.

Dubinsky scored 34 goals.

Boyle scored 32 goals.

But we have this idea that somehow Boyle's 21 goals were a fluke, that Anisimov is going to turn it around any season now and that Dubinsky can still be the player we thought he was going to be. The reality is that a lot of it is perception.

We also have the perception that we have to have the best player in every position in order to win a cup, which I also don't agree with.

Right now, on paper, the worst the Rangers are in any particular area is average. They are also above average in many more areas.

At worst, I'd say our third line is average. But considering the top end talent, our defense and our goaltending, I'm really not worried.
Anisimov has 46 assists
Dubinsky has 54 assists
Boyle has 29 assists

I don't want the best 3rd line center. The cost for that would not be feesable.

I want a better offensive 3rd line center.

If Boyle had been posting seasons of 15+ I would have no issue believing that 21 goals was NOT a fluke, That said, he went from 4 goals in 71 games to 21 in 82 back to 11 in 82 (5 coming in the last 10 games of the season)

I believe that our 3rd line is less than average. But it's going to have a new look to it and the possibility of chemistry developing can change things. I just do not have faith in Boyle. He hasn't shown me enough to instill that confidence.

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Old
08-08-2012, 09:20 PM
  #135
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Pyatt and Boyle have the potential to be a tough pair of players to play against.

Who ever the other winger is, that line has the potential to be a solid third line.

The Boyle hate is ridiculous.

They need another winger, they are aware of the situation. Once the new CBA is agreed upon, they will address the issue. Still some decent players available on the market.

Brule, who could be coached into a Prust.

Hecht is still out there.

Its August 2012. We may not see hockey until 2013.

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Old
08-08-2012, 09:28 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Pyatt and Boyle have the potential to be a tough pair of players to play against.

Who ever the other winger is, that line has the potential to be a solid third line.

The Boyle hate is ridiculous.

They need another winger, they are aware of the situation. Once the new CBA is agreed upon, they will address the issue. Still some decent players available on the market.

Brule, who could be coached into a Prust.

Hecht is still out there.

Its August 2012. We may not see hockey until 2013.
hagelin? unless you mean for the part of the season when we dont have gabs. i say jt miller but im probably the minority here

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Old
08-08-2012, 09:44 PM
  #137
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I'm getting tired of all this Doan drama. The guy doesn't wanna leave Phoniex. That's all well & good, ki'd rather not have him at all then sign a blaoted deal than he will never be able to live to & have him under preform, be miserable & cry behind the scenes about the adustment's & sacrfices he & his family had to make when they made the move & all the pressure that comes with playing in NY, this is a big pass for me.

We should have signed Jagr.

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Old
08-08-2012, 10:18 PM
  #138
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for those hating on boyle, who REALISTICALLY do you want in his place that we should go out and get? not hearing much in terms of alternatives besides praying that miller is ready as a 19 year old

i'd love to make boyle the 4th line center cause that makes us deep as hell down the middle, but who are you getting to push him down

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Old
08-08-2012, 10:50 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
for those hating on boyle, who REALISTICALLY do you want in his place that we should go out and get? not hearing much in terms of alternatives besides praying that miller is ready as a 19 year old

i'd love to make boyle the 4th line center cause that makes us deep as hell down the middle, but who are you getting to push him down


Actually here is the list of names I've heard:

Jason Arnott
J.T. Miller
Daymond Langkow
Brendan Morrison
1984-85 Wayne Gretzky

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Old
08-08-2012, 11:22 PM
  #140
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i would absolutely give doan a 4 year contract. 4 years, 8 mil total.

2 mil/yr cap hit, he can have the majority of it up front in a signing bonus. he wants more? he can gtfo.

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08-08-2012, 11:46 PM
  #141
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The Doan saga may be winding down. Word in Phoenix is that Jamison has lined up necessary investors and deal to sell the team may be announced as early as next Tuesday.

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Old
08-09-2012, 12:13 AM
  #142
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i would absolutely give doan a 4 year contract. 4 years, 8 mil total.

2 mil/yr cap hit, he can have the majority of it up front in a signing bonus. he wants more? he can gtfo.
Well he apparently wants 4 years 30 million LOL. That is not going to happen for a 20 goal scorer on the decline of his career. I think he would fit in nice but I would only be ok with a big cap hit on a 1 year deal max.

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08-09-2012, 12:26 AM
  #143
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The Doan saga may be winding down. Word in Phoenix is that Jamison has lined up necessary investors and deal to sell the team may be announced as early as next Tuesday.
Glad it looks like you'll keep your hockey team bobbop!

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Old
08-09-2012, 12:37 AM
  #144
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i would absolutely give doan a 4 year contract. 4 years, 8 mil total.

2 mil/yr cap hit, he can have the majority of it up front in a signing bonus. he wants more? he can gtfo.
I would also give him 4 years @ 2 or 3 million with a huge signing bonus up front. That way if he starts to suck 2 years down the line, we're not hurt that bad with his cap hit since he is gonna have a 35+ contract.

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Old
08-09-2012, 12:39 AM
  #145
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The Doan saga may be winding down. Word in Phoenix is that Jamison has lined up necessary investors and deal to sell the team may be announced as early as next Tuesday.
The guy still has absolutely no operating capital. The NHL would be nuts to allow this transaction.

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Old
08-09-2012, 01:16 AM
  #146
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Anisimov has 46 assists
Dubinsky has 54 assists
Boyle has 29 assists

I don't want the best 3rd line center. The cost for that would not be feesable.

I want a better offensive 3rd line center.

If Boyle had been posting seasons of 15+ I would have no issue believing that 21 goals was NOT a fluke, That said, he went from 4 goals in 71 games to 21 in 82 back to 11 in 82 (5 coming in the last 10 games of the season)

I believe that our 3rd line is less than average. But it's going to have a new look to it and the possibility of chemistry developing can change things. I just do not have faith in Boyle. He hasn't shown me enough to instill that confidence.
Dubinsky and Anisimov were also playing on the top two lines at various points. Playing on a third line, they aren't getting those assists. Which means the offensive gap is even smaller. Heck playing in the different roles, they barely managed more goals, which is the point that keeps getting brought up. Essentially, it comes down to this: despite playing with more talented linemates, and in more offensive situations, those two guys BARELY managed more goals than Boyle. They clearly managed more assists, which considering the difference in linemates and roles, isn't terribly surprising. Put consistently in the same role, I think that assist output, like the goals, becomes almost neglible.

Frankly, I just don't think there's a whole lot to back up the anti-Boyle claims, at least not to the high levels we see around here (and mostly around here).

I think it comes down to two principles - Boyle isn't considered "home grown" and he isn't a "beast" out there, which will always be two strikes on this board. With two strikes, people go looking for number three.

Again, I don't believe Boyle is a "great" third liner. But I also think some are probably going a bit too much to the other end of the spectrum. However, one area I strongly agree with you about is the sample size. I believe this will be a very telling season for Boyle. But just as you don't have faith in him, I'm not sure it will ever be enough for some on these boards.

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Old
08-09-2012, 02:27 AM
  #147
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This is the standard "goals and points aren't everything" BS people used to say about Drury.

Boyle scored one goal in his last 25 games of 2011, which was a career year.

He scored six goals through his first 73 games in 2012.


For those keeping score at home, that's seven goals in 98 games.

Seven goals in 98 games for a guy playing anywhere from 2nd to 3rd line minutes.

Boyle finished 32nd in faceoff pct in the playoffs. That's out of 52 skaters.

Boyle placed 240th among eligible forwards in shooting pct. 2-4-0. That's out of 281 eligible forwards.

All Boyle does is block shots and pin people against the boards. That's it. He's a good penalty killer. A lot of guys around the league are good penalty killers. That doesnt mean they should see PP time and ice time when his team's down a goal with under three mins to play.

Again, you like throwing around things like "asinine" and "talking out of your ass" but you're the one who isn't supporting your argument for Boyle with anything substantial.

Boyle has no skill. I know what I see. He sucks, and the stats back it up. That doesn't mean you have to cry and take his poster off your wall.
Drury's cap hit was over $7 mil per. Boyle is making $1.7 mil per. Jesus--you don't see a ****ing difference? We just went through a whole season worth of people crabbing about Dubinsky's production for $4.2 mil per. And he's likely going to rebound. Drury's ability to play was just going down the toilet. From 2nd liner to 3rd liner to 4th liner to sometimes a scratch. Captain Chris's career as a Ranger was a miserable failure.

Boyle has never been more than a bottom 6 player. He fits a role. Some of you guys think you're smarter about hockey than Tortorella. What the **** does he know anyway? We wound up first in the East and went deeper in the playoffs than we had in years and we had posters here *****ing all the way. Maybe all that was just dumb luck?

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Old
08-09-2012, 02:56 AM
  #148
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The Nash trade is why we're talking about Boyle. If ther is no trade, its a dead issue and Boyle is probably back on the 4th line.

People act like Boyle earned a promotion.

Nope.

When you go for broke and trade depth to get Rick Nash, you deal with scrubbery in your bottom 6.

Please. Like Sather didn't try to get rid of him before AA, maybe even Dubi.

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Old
08-09-2012, 03:06 AM
  #149
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Yeah, Boyle really had a huge hand in those 51 wins. Forget the Vezina winner and Hart finalist in goal, the 2nd team All Star and the two top-10 Norris finishers. Forget the three balanced scoring lines and all the OT wins. Forget the rookie who almost made the all-rookie team. Forget the all-star Center who they spent 60 million on in the offseason.

Forget all that. Brian Boyle and his five goals through 60 games spearheaded the charge to the 1st seed.

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08-09-2012, 03:08 AM
  #150
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Boyle is in the same spot he was last season, and the season before. There is/was no promotion.

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