HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Detroit makes an offer for Jay. Bo

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-09-2012, 04:10 AM
  #151
Remember2004
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoneX View Post
JBo is horribly overpaid, his contract is the real stinker here. All those $$$ and noone has a clue how he'd play in the post season, since he's never played a playoff game.

While Franzen is statistically slightly better offensively than Hudler in the regular season and substantially better defensively, Franzen is head and shoulders above Hudler come playoff time, it's not even close. He's also more versatile and more physical.

Franzen >> Hudler.

How is a reliable 30 goal/50pt scorer that's sound defensively locked into a $4m cap hit long term such a bad thing? Franzen can clearly take over playoff games.
Too bad we can't even get into the playoffs to prove that point if we acquired him

Remember2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 04:49 AM
  #152
HighLifeMan
HFB Partner
 
HighLifeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,930
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
A newly signed ufa that a team let go has zero value, so from a value standpoint Hudler is essentially nothing. Hudler is young so obviously he did not feature in Kenny's plans so no value or very little to us. Has there ever been the case of a player signing elsewhere only to be traded back to the team in the same off season?

At this point in time Franzen = Jbo in terms of impact to a team so essentially you are trading Gus+Quincey for Babchuk. You can't tell me a sub 4 million 30 goal/50 points is not worth Jbo as he currently stands. Franzen may look like a worse contract in a few years but from the current standpoint the value is way lopsided.
That is wrong on so many levels. A trade has to benefit both teams..

Just because Hudler holds next to no value to Detroit, does not mean he is a throw away for Calgary..He holds very similar value to Franzen on the trade market. Your point is moot.

It may not make sense for Detroit (which I can completely understand you saying..), but value wise it is by no means lopsided in Calgarys favor.

I also completely disagree with you that Franzen is as valuable as Bouwmeester, but we don't need to get into that..

HighLifeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 04:57 AM
  #153
HighLifeMan
HFB Partner
 
HighLifeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,930
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoneX View Post
JBo is horribly overpaid, his contract is the real stinker here. All those $$$ and noone has a clue how he'd play in the post season, since he's never played a playoff game.

While Franzen is statistically slightly better offensively than Hudler in the regular season and substantially better defensively, Franzen is head and shoulders above Hudler come playoff time, it's not even close. He's also more versatile and more physical.

Franzen >> Hudler.

How is a reliable 30 goal/50pt scorer that's sound defensively locked into a $4m cap hit long term such a bad thing? Franzen can clearly take over playoff games.
He will shortly be turning 33 years old, and is signed for EIGHT more seasons at an 4M dollar cap hit.

I understand that Franzen brings a great playoff resume and has more intangibles, but his age and contract length make him an unattractive option to trade for. It's really that simple.

HighLifeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 05:27 AM
  #154
Northern Heat
Registered User
 
Northern Heat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
He will shortly be turning 33 years old, and is signed for EIGHT more seasons at an 4M dollar cap hit.

I understand that Franzen brings a great playoff resume and has more intangibles, but his age and contract length make him an unattractive option to trade for. It's really that simple.
Completely agree. I can look past the age, but the contract is a deal breaker.

Northern Heat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 08:39 AM
  #155
tfong
Registered User
 
tfong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
That is wrong on so many levels. A trade has to benefit both teams..

Just because Hudler holds next to no value to Detroit, does not mean he is a throw away for Calgary..He holds very similar value to Franzen on the trade market. Your point is moot.

It may not make sense for Detroit (which I can completely understand you saying..), but value wise it is by no means lopsided in Calgarys favor.

I also completely disagree with you that Franzen is as valuable as Bouwmeester, but we don't need to get into that..
My main point of contention is that it makes no sense for Detroit to reaquire Hudler so I consider his trade value to Detroit as close to zero.


The franzen contract isn't too bad as the last 3 years are 2m, 1, 1 caphits so a buyout if he can't play at 37 is what is likely to happen.

tfong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 09:01 AM
  #156
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
My main point of contention is that it makes no sense for Detroit to reaquire Hudler so I consider his trade value to Detroit as close to zero.


The franzen contract isn't too bad as the last 3 years are 2m, 1, 1 caphits so a buyout if he can't play at 37 is what is likely to happen.
Yes but it makes no sense for us Hudler is only slightly worse than Frazen and we don't need to get Frazen's bad contract to have him.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 09:18 AM
  #157
HighLifeMan
HFB Partner
 
HighLifeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,930
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
My main point of contention is that it makes no sense for Detroit to reaquire Hudler so I consider his trade value to Detroit as close to zero.


The franzen contract isn't too bad as the last 3 years are 2m, 1, 1 caphits so a buyout if he can't play at 37 is what is likely to happen.
Ok, that is absolutely reasonable.

My entire point was just because it was poor value for Detroit, did not suggest that Calgary got a mountainous advantage in value. It has to work both ways, and by all accounts that proposal worked for neither team.

0/2

HighLifeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 09:57 AM
  #158
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,088
vCash: 50
My 2 cents, it would be highly unlikely to see any deal in which Hudler would be going back to Detroit. With that said, I think Hudler has equal if not more value in a trade due to his age, contract, and performance. Since this is an internet forum, any and all possible trade scenario's are worth talking about, because well, it is summer and there is not much else to do.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 11:15 AM
  #159
LukeD
On Fire
 
LukeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,768
vCash: 500
Anyone see this article? http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....calgary_f.html

Interesting to now hear rumors from the other side.

LukeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 11:19 AM
  #160
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeD View Post
Anyone see this article? http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....calgary_f.html

Interesting to now hear rumors from the other side.
That article is referencing the same "team source" that the original blog post did. The rumor is only continuing to make rounds because nothing else is going on; there's no more truth to it now than there was a week ago.

My advice is to hold off on believing anything unless you hear this rumor from a reputable source. To this point, the only reputable sources who have spoken up on it have said that it's nonsense.

Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 11:29 AM
  #161
Janks
Pope Janks
 
Janks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,311
vCash: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
That article is referencing the same "team source" that the original blog post did. The rumor is only continuing to make rounds because nothing else is going on; there's no more truth to it now than there was a week ago.

My advice is to hold off on believing anything unless you hear this rumor from a reputable source. To this point, the only reputable sources who have spoken up on it have said that it's nonsense.
Quoted for emphasis.

This rumor keeps popping up because everyone is speculating that because Lidstrom left, Detroit will replace him with Jbou (who is similar to Lidstrom's style).

Same stuff that Eklund pulls.

Janks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 11:42 AM
  #162
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
I simply cant agree with that whatsoever from a Flames perspective.

Jay Bouwmeester >> Kyle Quincey (not really debatable in my mind)
Quincey has a PPG of .3696 versus Bouwmeester's of .3975. That's not a substantial difference. Quincey's career +/- is far better than that of Bouwmeester. Quincey hits more and blocks as many shots. And while he's not as good a skater as Bouwmeester, he's not very far behind.

Bouwmeester is the better of the two, but not by a big margin.

Quote:
Jiri Hudler > Johan Franzen (This is debatable)
I understand Hulder was let go by the Redwings, but I personally would not trade him straight up for the older, similiarily productive forward. The biggest strike against Franzen is that he is signed to an astonishingly unattractive contract.(8 more years @ 3.925M ).
I believe I speak for most Red Wings fans (do not listen to eva; he is very possibly the world's most ardent Hudler fan) when I say that Jiri Hudler is often a very frustrating player to watch. He is entirely one dimensional, a complete liability when not in the offensive zone; he's small and not especially strong, so others must do most of the work in the offensive zone for him; he's easily knocked off the puck; he's a bad skater, with average speed and horrendous acceleration; he often passes when he should shoot; he doesn't even try to hit; he's by no means above laziness on the ice; and he has a habit of taking ridiculous penalties in the offensive zone.

In sum, Hudler is only useful if you put him on the ice in the proper situations, and with linemates who do most of the work in the offensive zone and can compensate for his poor skating and for his ineptitude in the defensive zone. Back in the day, he played a scrappy, energetic style that helped compensate for some of his failings, but he apparently jettisoned that when he went to Russia. It hasn't come back. Whatever the case, very few people on LGW were sorry to see him go.

Franzen has good hands, a great shot, and a fairly good pass, and he's large, good at skating, and has a lot of talent. The guy's biggest problem is that he's often very lazy. He could almost certainly score 40+ goals if he put forth the requisite effort in every game. As is, he floats his way to 30 goals per season. His contract is long, yes, but it's very worth it for the time being. Of course, I don't want to trade Franzen for Hudler.

Quote:
Gustav Nyquist > Anton Babchuk
Tough to say. It's apples vs oranges in almost every sense.


Last edited by Crymson: 08-09-2012 at 11:49 AM.
Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 01:12 PM
  #163
tfong
Registered User
 
tfong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Ok, that is absolutely reasonable.

My entire point was just because it was poor value for Detroit, did not suggest that Calgary got a mountainous advantage in value. It has to work both ways, and by all accounts that proposal worked for neither team.

0/2

Sweet an understanding

On tHat note tsn is reporting the talks about Jbo are real.

tfong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 01:16 PM
  #164
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Sweet an understanding

On tHat note tsn is reporting the talks about Jbo are real.
TSN is reporting no such thing. TSN's article did nothing but reference the Mlive article linked earlier today in this thread. Apparently the TSN author was unaware that the Mlive article was itself quoting an unknown source.

Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 01:18 PM
  #165
tfong
Registered User
 
tfong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
TSN is reporting no such thing. TSN's article did nothing but reference the Mlive article linked earlier today in this thread. Apparently the TSN author was unaware that the Mlive article was itself quoting an unknown source.
Man we are just going in circles aren't we?

tfong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 01:20 PM
  #166
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Man we are just going in circles aren't we?
News outlets are looking for anything to report on. It happens when things are this slow.

Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 03:37 PM
  #167
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,936
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
News outlets are looking for anything to report on. It happens when things are this slow.
This is about the only thing we can agree on since you've come on our boards.

MarkGio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 06:23 PM
  #168
SvenBartschi27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 305
vCash: 500
I would definitely want 2013 1st +

SvenBartschi27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 07:00 PM
  #169
CGYPUKSUX
The No Kool-aid Zone
 
CGYPUKSUX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hockey Purgatory
Posts: 2,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
News outlets are looking for anything to report on. It happens when things are this slow.
That's not the impression being made. Seems the Detroit reporter is representing himself as an insider and has confirmation from the Wings that talks are going on. I know you're fighting hard to dispute this, on both the main board and this one, but it seems that there is indeed interest from Detroit and they are initiating talks. Again, Calgary has no reason to move Bouwmeester unless the salary cap is coming down by a large margin, which the latest signings indicate other clubs do not think is much of a possibility.

CGYPUKSUX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 07:37 PM
  #170
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
How you would feel about the deal if Ericsson was swapped with Quincey? Leave the draft picks out.
If you throw in Quincey something would have to be added from the flames for sure. Not a real high end prospect but maybe someone like Ferland who provides stuff the wings pipe line lacks and also looks like he could reasonably turn into an NHLer of some kind

Flip+Quincey
Jbo+Ferland+4th

The 4th comes in for the salary dump I think

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
If Nyquist becomes a Hossa or Datsyuk type player, then of course he is worth far more than Glencross. With that said, I cant say he has done enough to warrant such praise or expectations.
I dont think Nyquist is on that level but I can guarantee you he becomes a much better player then Glencross, he has been down right dominant at every level he has played. I'll eat my hat if he doesnt become better then Hudler and Filppula at least

newfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 07:50 PM
  #171
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
If you throw in Quincey something would have to be added from the flames for sure. Not a real high end prospect but maybe someone like Ferland who provides stuff the wings pipe line lacks and also looks like he could reasonably turn into an NHLer of some kind

Flip+Quincey
Jbo+Ferland+4th

The 4th comes in for the salary dump I think



I dont think Nyquist is on that level but I can guarantee you he becomes a much better player then Glencross, he has been down right dominant at every level he has played. I'll eat my hat if he doesnt become better then Hudler and Filppula at least
We won't be using Ferland as a "thrown in" we are pretty high on him switch Ferland with Wahl.

There is no way to guarantee Nyquist will be better than Glencross as I feel Glencross will always be the better 2 way player and there have been many players that dominated the lower league but didn't in the nhl.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 08:12 PM
  #172
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
We won't be using Ferland as a "thrown in" we are pretty high on him switch Ferland with Wahl.

There is no way to guarantee Nyquist will be better than Glencross as I feel Glencross will always be the better 2 way player and there have been many players that dominated the lower league but didn't in the nhl.
You cant just trade an overpaid player and give up nothing. Quincey cost a first at the last deadline. Flip is solid and young.

Ferland is a 3rd or 4th liner and Jbo is a very solid player but also has a large salary that the flames would like to dump.

And you havent seen Nyquist play much if you dont think he has potential to be just as good of a 2 way player. His defense is miles ahead of most prospects and the reason the wings thought calling him up in his first year of pro hockey wasnt much of a risk

newfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 08:17 PM
  #173
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,936
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
You cant just trade an overpaid player and give up nothing. Quincey cost a first at the last deadline. Flip is solid and young.

Ferland is a 3rd or 4th liner and Jbo is a very solid player but also has a large salary that the flames would like to dump.

And you havent seen Nyquist play much if you dont think he has potential to be just as good of a 2 way player. His defense is miles ahead of most prospects and the reason the wings thought calling him up in his first year of pro hockey wasnt much of a risk
Who's talking about trading him? Oh yes, the Wings fans who have no defense anymore. Most Flames fans are happy with his services and know that there's a ridiculous void without him. If you think he's overpaid, then **** it, we'll pay him.

MarkGio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 08:20 PM
  #174
AfricanHerbsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Who's talking about trading him? Oh yes, the Wings fans who have no defense anymore. Most Flames fans are happy with his services and know that there's a ridiculous void without him. If you think he's overpaid, then **** it, we'll pay him.
YES! exactly we have no problem keeping him and watch him return to form under hartley

AfricanHerbsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2012, 08:40 PM
  #175
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,088
vCash: 50
@ Newfy, I may be alone here but I'm not opposed to the idea of adding Ferland. Personally I'd be prepared to send Backlund the other way who I feel is much more valuable. If you take out the 4th, what about adding Babs?

Jbo, Ferland, Babchuk for Filps and Quincey?

Either way, it sounds like were getting close. I like Ferland a lot but its still to early to tell how he will project as an NHL'er. That could be a steal of a trade for us down the road. If not Ferland, would there be any interest in Byron? He's NHL ready now.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.