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What to do on Defence?

View Poll Results: Defence?
Sign UFA (Colaiacovo,Rosival, etc.) 34 29.31%
Offersheet RFA (Subban, Carlson,Del Zotto) 21 18.10%
Make a Trade 18 15.52%
Stand pat 43 37.07%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:13 AM
  #26
FlyingHigh13
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Hannan is like another lilja I would much rather have a younger guy play that position and give him experience to build on. The reason we never have good, young D men is because we never trust them/stunt their growth and then play guys like Zhitnik, O'Donnell, Lilja. Hannan will just be rehashing our old tendencies.

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08-09-2012, 10:24 AM
  #27
KimiFerrari
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I say stand pat and reassess 20 games in.

The CBA still isn't concluded and that could have some major affects on team; which may force moves that gives the Flyers a better opportunity to nab a Dman.

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:54 AM
  #28
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Try to trade for bogosian or offer sheet kulikov ( or both ) If it doesn't work, maybe see if you can get Bouwmeester for cheap a couple weeks into the season. By cheap I mean like Gustafsson and a 1st or something

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08-09-2012, 11:08 AM
  #29
Erza Scarlet
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Barker caught my eye when I saw the UFA list on Cap Geek. Agreed that I would want it to be a tryout.
dude is terrible. If he couldn't make it on Edmonton's roster, why would anyone want him.

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08-09-2012, 11:09 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
I say stand pat and reassess 20 games in.

The CBA still isn't concluded and that could have some major affects on team; which may force moves that gives the Flyers a better opportunity to nab a Dman.
I keep suggesting to myself that this is why Homer hasn't made a move yet. Either that or he hasn't broken loose from the chain connected to the collar around his neck preventing him from picking up the phone and trading for Yandle.

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08-09-2012, 11:20 AM
  #31
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dude is terrible. If he couldn't make it on Edmonton's roster, why would anyone want him.
He was decent a few years ago, albeit he's gone down hill in those last few years. I figure a tryout can't really hurt. If he fails, they cut him in the preseason and it's no skin off our back.

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08-09-2012, 11:43 AM
  #32
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Stand pat.

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08-09-2012, 11:47 AM
  #33
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I picked "Offersheet" solely because I like watching 29 fanbases rise up against Holmgren for following the CBA.

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08-09-2012, 11:48 AM
  #34
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Unless we could get a number 1 or 2 guy I say stand pat and let the kids play. Most the guys on the UFA list aren't an upgrade over MAB or Gus IMO.

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08-09-2012, 12:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Try to trade for bogosian or offer sheet kulikov ( or both ) If it doesn't work, maybe see if you can get Bouwmeester for cheap a couple weeks into the season. By cheap I mean like Gustafsson and a 1st or something
People do realize that we cant just offer sheet everyone as there are consequences, right? Shea Weber is the best Dman in the league, that is why we did it. We are not giving an offer sheet to Subban, Kulikov or whomever cause we would be either matched or forced to overpay and lose 1st round picks most likely. Plus, Holmgren would burn bridges down with other GMs. All that for Subban or Kulikov, I think not.

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08-09-2012, 12:12 PM
  #36
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I won't choose because it's some combination of all of the above.

Assumptions:
1.) Our defense is solid, but unspectacular still. We're one injury away from serious trouble, however.
2.) I believe that with the current defense and its flaws, the Philadelphia Flyers could miss the playoffs this year... and I'm ok with that.

Trades:
The Flyers shouldn't feel the need to get robbed at this point. No reason to sell the future short while the youth is in development. It's possible that we suck, get injured, etc.... that shouldn't force us to try to hurt our longterm build for a short term gain. That said, if we get a longer term solution on defense (Bogo, OEL, Kulikov, Gubranson being my favorites) for some of our young forwards, I'm ok with that more balanced approach to team building.

Free Agency:
There's not much left that could make a dramatic difference. If we sign anyone still out there, it has to be a 1 year deal for flexibility.

Offer Sheet:
Sure, fire away. This is the least likely to yield a positive result (acquiring the player), but offers the best opportunity to acquire a player for less than could be had via trade.

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Old
08-09-2012, 12:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh13 View Post
People do realize that we cant just offer sheet everyone as there are consequences, right? Shea Weber is the best Dman in the league, that is why we did it. We are not giving an offer sheet to Subban, Kulikov or whomever cause we would be either matched or forced to overpay and lose 1st round picks most likely. Plus, Holmgren would burn bridges down with other GMs. All that for Subban or Kulikov, I think not.
Subban, Carlsson and Kulikov simply aren't going to get the top tier of offer sheets even if they were offered.

However, for example, we offered Kulikov an outrageous 6.5M AAV deal, Florida would be hard-pressed to match that and we would sacrifice a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd rounder. No way we offer even that level of compensation to any of the 3, but clearly they are all easily worth those picks.

Your last point is pretty moot as far as I'm concerned. If it improves this team (in terms of dollars/picks vs. the player) the Flyers simply won't care about whether other teams get butt-hurt. The Kesler offer sheet proves that. He was as much an unproven commodity when that offer sheet was made as any of these 3.

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Old
08-09-2012, 01:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Subban, Carlsson and Kulikov simply aren't going to get the top tier of offer sheets even if they were offered.

However, for example, we offered Kulikov an outrageous 6.5M AAV deal, Florida would be hard-pressed to match that and we would sacrifice a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd rounder. No way we offer even that level of compensation to any of the 3, but clearly they are all easily worth those picks.

Your last point is pretty moot as far as I'm concerned. If it improves this team (in terms of dollars/picks vs. the player) the Flyers simply won't care about whether other teams get butt-hurt. The Kesler offer sheet proves that. He was as much an unproven commodity when that offer sheet was made as any of these 3.
So Nashville (small market) matched Weber 24 mil in a year deal worth over 100 mil and Montreal/Florida wouldnt match 6.5 million dollar deal per year for its potentially #1 dman? Yeah, ok. These teams arent going to be bullied around, as we saw earlier with Weber. Even if they dont match (which is HIGHLY unlikely) with the combination of overpayment on talent and the picks given up, it just isnt worth it no matter how ya slice it except for a TOP, young talent e.g. Weber. Offer sheet are a once in a real long while occurance for these reasons.

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08-09-2012, 01:18 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHigh13 View Post
No more depth defensemen e.g. Carlo, rosival, all other UFA's, we have enough. Ride out with our the young guns (MAB/Gus/Manning) and our top 4, maybe mix in a bit of bruno and please, please no lilja. Assess our situation at the deadline and trade for a D-man if need be. That is what i think should happen but we shall see.
Cola isn't depth. He was a top pairing D for the Blues last year. I wouldn't mind him if they can snag him on a cheap 1 year deal.

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08-09-2012, 01:23 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh13 View Post
So Nashville (small market) matched Weber 24 mil in a year deal worth over 100 mil and Montreal/Florida wouldnt match 6.5 million dollar deal per year for its potentially #1 dman? Yeah, ok. These teams arent going to be bullied around, as we saw earlier with Weber. Even if they dont match (which is HIGHLY unlikely) with the combination of overpayment on talent and the picks given up, it just isnt worth it no matter how ya slice it except for a TOP, young talent e.g. Weber. Offer sheet are a once in a real long while occurance for these reasons.
As I stated in the above comments before your post... Yes, it's extremely likely they match. However, as was the case with Shea Weber, if the offer is even remotely close to reasonable dollars, we stand to lose nothing by offer sheeting. If the team matches, we lose nothing at all. If they do not, we get the player without losing from our existing pool of young assets.

As stated above.... it's the least likely to bare fruit. However, it's the best opportunity (however unlikely) to provide us with a reasonably priced asset. In terms of assets, any of the RFAs would be cheap compensation (picks, not necessarily cap hit).

If we're thinking about paying JBo 6.68M AAV, why not send an offer sheet for 6.5M for Subban and have a shot at getting a similarly valuable defenseman for less than JBo would cost?

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08-09-2012, 01:23 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Cola isn't depth. He was a top pairing D for the Blues last year. I wouldn't mind him if they can snag him on a cheap 1 year deal.
He's averaging 64.75 games a year for the last 4 years. I'd prefer a top pairing D play more than 3/4 of the season

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08-09-2012, 01:30 PM
  #42
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He's averaging 64.75 games a year for the last 4 years. I'd prefer a top pairing D play more than 3/4 of the season
Which is why I said a cheap, 1 year deal. If you can improve your team on the cheap for 3/4 of the year then what's the harm?

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08-09-2012, 01:41 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
As I stated in the above comments before your post... Yes, it's extremely likely they match. However, as was the case with Shea Weber, if the offer is even remotely close to reasonable dollars, we stand to lose nothing by offer sheeting. If the team matches, we lose nothing at all. If they do not, we get the player without losing from our existing pool of young assets.

As stated above.... it's the least likely to bare fruit. However, it's the best opportunity (however unlikely) to provide us with a reasonably priced asset. In terms of assets, any of the RFAs would be cheap compensation (picks, not necessarily cap hit).

If we're thinking about paying JBo 6.68M AAV, why not send an offer sheet for 6.5M for Subban and have a shot at getting a similarly valuable defenseman for less than JBo would cost?
Would rather have JBo than subban for same price and loss of draft picks. But either way its a irrelevant arguement cause A) the flyers arent going to do it and B) the Habs will match (barring the rounded to zero chance we would have). So, rather than pissing teams off and not getting anything for it, just stand pat and roll with what ya got. Reassess at the deadline. My main point is that there is no reason to throw out offer sheets at all these players. Do you see any other teams doing that? No.

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08-09-2012, 01:48 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh13 View Post
Would rather have JBo than subban for same price and loss of draft picks.
My point is that when state that relative cost ($$$) is taken out of the equation, Subban + Assets necessary to acquire JBo - picks for Subban > JBo + picks for Subban - assets for JBo.

JBo isn't coming here for less than at least 1 roster player + picks.

Again, we all agree that it's unlikely we do it and even less likely that decline to match, but most people were simply asking the question about what the best way to solve the issues on defense was.

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08-09-2012, 01:52 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
My point is that when state that relative cost ($$$) is taken out of the equation, Subban + Assets necessary to acquire JBo - picks for Subban > JBo + picks for Subban - assets for JBo.

JBo isn't coming here for less than at least 1 roster player + picks.

Again, we all agree that it's unlikely we do it and even less likely that decline to match, but most people were simply asking the question about what the best way to solve the issues on defense was.
That wasnt my main point cause i dont want either... and conclusively RFA offer sheets are not the way to go.

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08-09-2012, 01:56 PM
  #46
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I would like to get JBo, but if the Wings are interested in him as well then we could have a bidding war. JBo would help for next season as well, but I can't see overpaying for a player that a team doesn't really want to keep.

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08-09-2012, 01:57 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Which is why I said a cheap, 1 year deal. If you can improve your team on the cheap for 3/4 of the year then what's the harm?
And what if that 1/4 of the year when he is out happens down the line leading into the playoffs?

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08-09-2012, 02:07 PM
  #48
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Yeah, Carlo wants a longer team deal most likely. If he wanted a one year deal or was willing to accept one, he would have been signed already. Only way i would take him is for one year, but still not very interested. plus, he may be a 1st dman on blues, but he is talent wise a 3 or 4.

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08-09-2012, 02:33 PM
  #49
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Depending on how much he costs I wouldn't mind signing Hannan and pairing him with Gus. Failing that, stand pat and give Gus/MAB a shot as our 3rd pairing and live with their growing pains.

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08-09-2012, 03:13 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHigh13 View Post
Hannan is like another lilja I would much rather have a younger guy play that position and give him experience to build on. The reason we never have good, young D men is because we never trust them/stunt their growth and then play guys like Zhitnik, O'Donnell, Lilja. Hannan will just be rehashing our old tendencies.
I agree with this. If there is ever a year to try our young defensemen, this is it.

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