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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

San Jose & Detroit

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:39 PM
  #26
Henkka
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Propose Boyle, then we could have something to talk about.

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:44 PM
  #27
WTFetus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
[/b]

Interesting considering Detroit's pool is relatively loaded and San Jose's is... Well...
How does that help the Sharks and their two-year window? And if they were trading Boyle, they could get a lot better of a package (higher picks, better prospects) from other teams.

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
How does that help the Sharks and their two-year window? And if they were trading Boyle, they could get a lot better of a package (higher picks, better prospects) from other teams.
To be quite honest I'm not really interested in giving up any prospects for Boyle. (Not a rip on Boyle, not really interested in giving them up for much of anybody)

That said, you mentioned their "two-year window". Honestly, I think they need to sell off Boyle/Marleau/Havlat/Thornton for picks and prospects. They could easily get quite a good stockpile out of that and build themselves for the future quite well.

Maybe that doesn't look good to the fans, but I see them either taking 3-5 years of mediocrity now or 5-10 years in a few years when those guys are old and they've gotten nothing out of them.

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:54 PM
  #29
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Helm is an untouchable in Detroit, one of the few.

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:55 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
Sharks get:
Darren Helm


Red Wings get:
Douglas Murray
5th round pick in 2013

Seems fair to me no? Thoughts?
Not a chance. Helm >> Murray, especially to the Wings.

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:57 PM
  #31
Hatrick Marleau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Propose Boyle, then we could have something to talk about.
:
Helm
Franzen
1st


Boyle
Clowe

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:05 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
:
Helm
Franzen
1st


Boyle
Clowe
And it gets worse and worse...

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:08 PM
  #33
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1) Boyle is a vastly better player than Helm, and 2) The Shark's are in win now mode, and trading a #1 defensemen/elite power play QB for a bottom 6 forward (even a very good one) and picks or prospects doesn't make our team better in the near term. Questioning whether you would do that trade suggests you are either overvaluing Helm, undervaluing Boyle, or both.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:09 PM
  #34
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Murray + Boyle would be interesting.

For a defenceman and a winger. (Sharks fan, you name them)


Last edited by Henkka: 08-09-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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Old
08-09-2012, 07:11 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattb124 View Post
1) Boyle is a vastly better player than Helm
And Helm isn't in the twilight years of his career...

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:49 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
And Helm isn't in the twilight years of his career...
Like Lindstrom was in the twilight of his career 6 years ago? Boyle is 36 (born in 1976), but he has not shown any signs of regression. The past 4 years he was 7th (where he started the year with a broken foot), 2nd, 4th and 6th among NHL D-men for TOI. It goes without saying that Boyle is not the defenseman that Lindstrom was, but he is comparable offensively, good defensively and would be Detroit's best D-man. With your current defense, you wouldn't trade a 3rd liner for 2 years of that? I doubt Holland would agree.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Maybe that doesn't look good to the fans, but I see them either taking 3-5 years of mediocrity now or 5-10 years in a few years when those guys are old and they've gotten nothing out of them.
Only teams with piss poor management take that long to complete a rebuild.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattb124 View Post
Like Lindstrom was in the twilight of his career 6 years ago? Boyle is 36 (born in 1976), but he has not shown any signs of regression. The past 4 years he was 7th (where he started the year with a broken foot), 2nd, 4th and 6th among NHL D-men for TOI. It goes without saying that Boyle is not the defenseman that Lindstrom was, but he is comparable offensively, good defensively and would be Detroit's best D-man. With your current defense, you wouldn't trade a 3rd liner for 2 years of that? I doubt Holland would agree.
Stopped reading after you tried using comparing Lidstrom and Boyle.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:06 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattb124 View Post
Like Lindstrom was in the twilight of his career 6 years ago? Boyle is 36 (born in 1976), but he has not shown any signs of regression. The past 4 years he was 7th (where he started the year with a broken foot), 2nd, 4th and 6th among NHL D-men for TOI. It goes without saying that Boyle is not the defenseman that Lindstrom was, but he is comparable offensively, good defensively and would be Detroit's best D-man. With your current defense, you wouldn't trade a 3rd liner for 2 years of that? I doubt Holland would agree.
Have to point it out because it drives me crazy but who the hell is Lindstrom?

The answer as far as Lidstrom is he was still winning Norris Trophies at that age and was still the best d-man in the league. Boyle is a very good player, he is hardly what I would call elite. I struggle to put him in the top 10 of D-man at any point in his career.

I am not going to say Holland wouldn't but he did just lock up Helm to a four year contract. Babcock and Holland both trot Helm's name out almost immediately whenever they talk about the current team and as the first name when they talk about the future of the team. They are pretty attached to him.

Helm would be very challenging to get out of Detroit, I don't know what the price would be but it would have to be for a future piece not two years of something.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:16 PM
  #40
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There are people who wouldn't trade Helm for Boyle straight up?

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:16 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Maybe something around Boyle for Helm+
<-- Red Wing fan

Helm is our RUDY. (the movie)

I honestly would be able to handle the loss of Filppula or Franzen if we get a piece back.

As for helm. no no no. We don't trade him for anyone.

If we have to rebuild... he is invaluable due to being young and will be our defensive center for years to come

If we want to contend, he is again invaluable as the third line center.

Bottom line he is worth more to US RED WING FANS than pretty much anyone. I see no reason to EVER trade this player.

Even if we rebuild in 2 years for missing the playoffs, Datsyuk and Zetterberg might be traded before Helm.

Thats what i mean by untradable. You can say any name honestly, we just don't want to lose HELM. He is more valuable to Red Wings Fans than players better than him. He is all heart with some skill.

Lets put it this way, We know why you WANT him, but you cant have him. He is ours. Thats it.

As for prospects, We really love Nyquist and Smith too. They are pretty much untouchable even though they may never be amazing. As red wing fans we want to see them develop ourselves. We of course think they will be amazing.. which is probably wrong, but still, we won't trade them.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:25 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Boyle is a very good player, he is hardly what I would call elite. I struggle to put him in the top 10 of D-man at any point in his career.
Seriously? He was arguably in the Top-10 the last four seasons, especially the first three. Being on the 2nd all-star team in 2007 and 2009 also disproves your point.
You really know nothing about Dan Boyle if you can't put him in the Top-10 at any point in his career. He was and still is an elite defenseman, there really is no doubt about it. How many defenseman can put up 50+ points in the regular season and keep up that production in the post-season?

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by RussianShark View Post
There are people who wouldn't trade Helm for Boyle straight up?
Exactly!

I wouldn't.

Helm is 25, Boyle is 36.

And nothing against Boyle, he is a BETTER player, but Detroit NEEDS Helm, they do not NEED Boyle.

Can we just agree that no matter how good YOU think Helm is, I as a red wings fan believe the red wing's management will NEVER trade him.

Red wings current team (The only ones that matter):

line name
forwards
1) Datsyuk
1) Zetterberg
2) Filppula
2) Franzen
3) Helm

defense
1)Kronwall

Thats it.

Prospects

Nyquist
Smith

(all others are far from the NHL but do have talent)

Maybe we deal Filp or Franz IF we get a player ranked as a number 1 forward or defenseman.

Everyone else on the team is expendable.
[written this way you would see we don't have the depth to give up our manny malhotra (helm)]

Also If I was SJ.
I keep Thornton, Marleau, Havlat, Clowe, Pavelski, Couture and Boyle try a few other nuts and bolts and go for the cup again.

Heck, from 1993-1996 Detroit was known as chokers as SJ is now.
I would not give up on your core yet.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:38 PM
  #44
WTFetus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
Also If I was SJ.
I keep Thornton, Marleau, Havlat, Clowe, Pavelski, Couture and Boyle try a few other nuts and bolts and go for the cup again.
Replace Boyle with Burns and replace Clowe with Vlasic.
I don't like Boyle for Helm either, I think Boyle could return a far better player than Helm. We aren't thinking of rebuilding. The whole point of Boyle proposals is to give the team better forward depth.

Going with
Vlasic - Burns
Stuart - Demers
Murray - Braun

is still a playoff caliber defense, and the forward group would be a lot better.

Also, Boyle is a number one defenseman.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:39 PM
  #45
Hatrick Marleau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
<-- Red Wing fan

Helm is our RUDY. (the movie)

I honestly would be able to handle the loss of Filppula or Franzen if we get a piece back.

As for helm. no no no. We don't trade him for anyone.

If we have to rebuild... he is invaluable due to being young and will be our defensive center for years to come

If we want to contend, he is again invaluable as the third line center.

Bottom line he is worth more to US RED WING FANS than pretty much anyone. I see no reason to EVER trade this player.

Even if we rebuild in 2 years for missing the playoffs, Datsyuk and Zetterberg might be traded before Helm.

Thats what i mean by untradable. You can say any name honestly, we just don't want to lose HELM. He is more valuable to Red Wings Fans than players better than him. He is all heart with some skill.

Lets put it this way, We know why you WANT him, but you cant have him. He is ours. Thats it.

As for prospects, We really love Nyquist and Smith too. They are pretty much untouchable even though they may never be amazing. As red wing fans we want to see them develop ourselves. We of course think they will be amazing.. which is probably wrong, but still, we won't trade them.
Ok you guys don't want to trade Helm. I wouldn't either as he is your only young guy.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:53 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Ok you guys don't want to trade Helm. I wouldn't either as he is your only young guy.
We have a few other young ones. But mostly our team is at a crossroads. If things work out really well for us. You will all know the names of Nyquist and Smith after this season, And Filppula improves his numbers again this season (is it possible to go 70+ pts?)
And then Brunner impresses. Maybe we have a team. Maybe we can rebuild with a few home runs in 2-3 years from now on our prospects.

But honestly, missing out on FA signings this summer puts us in a different boat. If we got parise/suter... we would look pretty dangerous RIGHT NOW. But we didn't. Our fans are conflicted about our path. (lots of good older players, but missing some pieces, and have little to no extra assets to trade)

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:55 PM
  #47
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Let's trade our fastest player for one of their slowest players... Makes sense to me.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:58 PM
  #48
WTFetus
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Let's trade our fastest player for one of their slowest players... Makes sense to me.
Dan Boyle isn't the slow in the slightest...
Probably the 3rd fastest D (might argue that Demers is a little faster), and that's only because Burns and Braun are exceptionally fast.

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Old
08-09-2012, 09:00 PM
  #49
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Ok you guys don't want to trade Helm. I wouldn't either as he is your only young guy.
I love reading posts where the poster doesn't actually know they're on a prospect's site.

Read up, slugger.

There's actually a whole forum and articles about them.

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Old
08-09-2012, 09:04 PM
  #50
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Sharks get:
Darren Helm


Red Wings get:
Douglas Murray
5th round pick in 2013
Holy Hell. This is brutal.
Murray looked like he was an AHLer last year.

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