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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:14 PM
  #51
BamaWing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
I don't see why though. He's like a 20-30 point player at best.
Watch the Wings with Helm then watch them without him

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:15 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Dan Boyle isn't the slow in the slightest...
Probably the 3rd fastest D (might argue that Demers is a little faster), and that's only because Burns and Braun are exceptionally fast.
Wasn't talking about Boyle.

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:25 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Stopped reading after you tried using comparing Lidstrom and Boyle.
Paraphrase: I am too much of a homer to admit that you made a legitimate point that some players can maintain their level of play into their late 30's and early 40's and supported how Boyle is doing just that (i.e. not in the twilight of his career).

BinCookin, had you made a list of your signed d-men, it would become much more apparent as to how Boyle would benefit the Wings. I don't personally agree that Boyle is a top 10 defensemen in the league (definately top 10 offensively, just not top 10 defensively), more in the top 15 range. Detroit doesn't have a #1 D-man, which Boyle would fix (Kronwall will be the defacto #1 on Detroit, but doesn't meet the criteria for a #1).

Having said all that, I don't see a compelling case for Helm + for Boyle for me given his value to the Shark's.


"Let's trade our fastest player for one of their slowest players... Makes sense to me."

Spoken like someone who doesn't watch Boyle play much/at all.

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mattb124 View Post
Spoken like someone who doesn't watch Boyle play much/at all.
He was talking about the original proposal with Murray.

I wouldn't do Boyle for Helm, and I'm sure there is a good portion of Wings fans who wouldn't either; trying to force it on them are calling them crazy for not taking it never produces any meaningful discussion.

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:45 PM
  #55
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Yeah, sorry but Helm is untouchable.

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:52 PM
  #56
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It is worth noting as several Sharks fans have pointed out Boyle likely can return something pretty big. So even if we don't want to part with Helm, that conversation as it pertains to likely trade talks is super low. If something was to be had in this department, I have a feeling they would have discussed it when Stuart's rights were being traded. Granted they wanted to pursue Suter, but it is unlikely if there was a deal to be made that it wasn't discussed at least initially as a potential backup to free agency if plans fell through for either the Sharks or Red Wings. GMs have those kinds of conversations when you hear them talk about how trades went down in almost all cases it is weeks or months in the making.

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:16 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattb124 View Post
Paraphrase: I am too much of a homer to admit that you made a legitimate point that some players can maintain their level of play into their late 30's and early 40's and supported how Boyle is doing just that (i.e. not in the twilight of his career).
Paraphrase: He is not Nicklas ****ing Lidstrom nor is he from the same planet, thus is it safe to assume that he wont be defying father time like Lidstrom did.

And even if he does, I'm not interested in giving up assets for a temporary fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattb124 View Post
"Let's trade our fastest player for one of their slowest players... Makes sense to me."

Spoken like someone who doesn't watch Boyle play much/at all.
Spoken like somebody who obviously didn't read where he said he wasn't talking about Boyle.

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:23 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mattb124 View Post
BinCookin, had you made a list of your signed d-men, it would become much more apparent as to how Boyle would benefit the Wings.
I do agree our defense is weak, BUT.

I think Kronwall/White
and Quincey/Smith
and Ericson/Kindl

is OK, if smith turns into a very good defenseman. IF IF IF.

we could definitely use another very good D.
I just think Smith might be as good as Boyle or Bouwmeester one day. If it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen. But THIS year, is the year we give him the shot.

In either case our team cannot afford to trade young players away.
That is just the position I take. And Helm is easily our management and fans favorite player. A popular red wings blog site is named after helm (nightmare on helm street).

Just saying we like him. Look at our fans responses, untouchable. Ironically a third line center untouchable. To people that don't know detroit, they don't understand all the intangibles this player brings. Babcock himself said this playoff year, once we lost Helm for the third line, our forward core was not strong enough to compete with Nashville. Sadly I think he was right... there is no third line without him.

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:34 PM
  #59
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[QUOTE=Wingsfan2965;53438795]Paraphrase: He is not Nicklas ****ing Lidstrom nor is he from the same planet.QUOTE]

After your previous 3 responses, I am left wondering whether you realize Sweden is a country and not planet.

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:35 PM
  #60
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[QUOTE=Mattb124;53439381]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Paraphrase: He is not Nicklas ****ing Lidstrom nor is he from the same planet.QUOTE]

After your previous 3 responses, I am left wondering whether you realize Sweden is a country and not planet.
I'm left wondering if you actually know how to read between the lines and tell when a criticism is being made about the gap between two players' talent levels.

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:35 PM
  #61
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Murray is so overrated on hfboards .

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:45 PM
  #62
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Ok, I'll admit that I definitely did underestimate Helm. I didn't realize that Red Wings fans valued him that much, and thus I don't want this thread to get chippy. So lets get some things straight: Sharks fans think Boyle is a top 10 defenseman still with lots left in the tank and that he can fetch us more than just Helm. Red Wings fans value Helm a lot and do not want to give him up unless they're getting gold in return lol. Helm is a skilled, speedy 3rd liner and I can understand you guys not wanting to give him up.

Since the Sharks are still in need of a 3rd liner would Red Wings fans be opposed to something like:

Sharks get:
Drew Miller
5th round pick

Red Wings get:
Jason Demers
4th round pick

I think this is a fair trade. The Red Wings get a good young, offensive puck moving defenseman who is pretty fast and has a good shot from the point to improve their defense core. The Sharks get a solid 3rd liner in Drew Miller who is a good defensive forward and is good at killing penalties. Shoot this trade down if you will but I think its fair.


Last edited by Squeeven: 08-10-2012 at 02:02 AM.
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Old
08-09-2012, 11:47 PM
  #63
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This is how I reacted... (just skip to :19)


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Old
08-09-2012, 11:51 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
Sharks get:
Drew Miller
7th round pick

Red Wings get:
Jason Demers
4th round pick

I think this is a fair trade. The Red Wings get a good young, offensive puck moving defenseman who is pretty fast and has a good shot from the point to improve their defense core. The Sharks get a solid 3rd liner in Drew Miller who is a good defensive forward and is good at killing penalties. Shoot this trade down if you will but I think its fair.
That's not a bad deal, I just don't really see why the Wings make it to get a guy who will be fighting Kindl for the #6 spot.

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:52 PM
  #65
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If the Wings are trading for a defenseman then they are getting a sure defensive shut down guy or a top pair guy. Helm will never be involved.

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:53 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
Ok, I'll admit that I definitely did underestimate Helm. I didn't realize that Red Wings fans valued him that much, and thus I don't want this thread to get chippy. So lets get some things straight: Sharks fans think Boyle is a top 10 defenseman still with lots left in the tank and that he can fetch us more than just Helm. Red Wings fans value Helm a lot and do not want to give him up unless they're getting gold in return lol. Helm is a skilled, speedy 3rd liner and I can understand you guys not wanting to give him up.

Since the Sharks are still in need of a 3rd liner would Red Wings fans be opposed to something like:

Sharks get:
Drew Miller
7th round pick

Red Wings get:
Jason Demers
4th round pick

I think this is a fair trade. The Red Wings get a good young, offensive puck moving defenseman who is pretty fast and has a good shot from the point to improve their defense core. The Sharks get a solid 3rd liner in Drew Miller who is a good defensive forward and is good at killing penalties. Shoot this trade down if you will but I think its fair.
Detroits need would be a big stay at home dman but I would make this deal. Detroit has to many bottom 6 and to get a right handed dman in return it would work for me.

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:58 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Detroits need would be a big stay at home dman but I would make this deal. Detroit has to many bottom 6 and to get a right handed dman in return it would work for me.
I'd do the deal. However, I'd bump it up to Miller and 5th for Demers 4th. Just a better return for San Jose and I refuse to deny Andersson his right to take a flyer on some no-name kid who might become something in the last round.

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:03 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by 2MGoBlue2 View Post
I'd do the deal. However, I'd bump it up to Miller and 5th for Demers 4th. Just a better return for San Jose and I refuse to deny Andersson his right to take a flyer on some no-name kid who might become something in the last round.
I agree with this, plus the 7th seemed wrong to me. I do think the Wings would hesitate if Eaves doesn't have a clean bill of health. The PK would be interesting without knowing that, Miller logs a lot of minutes there. But the value is good as far as I am concerned.

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:06 AM
  #69
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A 7th is better than a fifth for Detroit anyways. Those Hakan picks.

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:10 AM
  #70
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I think Detroit would prefer a blueliner that's a bit younger and has a longer contract, so this deal wouldn't work as written even in a rational world. That said, we don't live in a rational world, we live in a world where Darren Helm is arguably the single most overrated roster player in the National Hockey League, and no deal discussion involving him will ever end well. You'd have a better chance trying to pick up Zetterberg, because I seriously think half the Red Wings fanbase would rather lose him than Darren Helm.

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:10 AM
  #71
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A 7th is better than a fifth for Detroit anyways. Those Hakan picks.
Tell me about it. Almqvist and Marchenko both look to be promising, of the recent 7th rounders.

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:11 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
A 7th is better than a fifth for Detroit anyways. Those Hakan picks.
It is a little funny we think that way, especially after we spent the better part of the day establishing we would not trade Helm. Fifth round draft pick

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:13 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by 2MGoBlue2 View Post
Tell me about it. Almqvist and Marchenko both look to be promising, of the recent 7th rounders.
Only heard good things about Bodin so far, although he is going to be a serious project. If that's the best player Hakan could've given us then I believe he will be a 700 game NHLer. lol

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:13 AM
  #74
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There isn't a trade to be had between the Sharks and Wings right now. Wings will want someone like Bouwmeester who will log a lot of minutes and be solid defensively first and foremost. Vlasic was the only guy the Sharks have that could've been appealing but they locked him up with a new deal so that's not happening anymore.

I think Sharks' fans are going to have to deal with what they have for the start of the season (if there is one) and make additions as the year progresses...hopefully not waiting for the deadline again because that almost never works.

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:15 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I think Detroit would prefer a blueliner that's a bit younger and has a longer contract, so this deal wouldn't work as written even in a rational world. That said, we don't live in a rational world, we live in a world where Darren Helm is arguably the single most overrated roster player in the National Hockey League, and no deal discussion involving him will ever end well. You'd have a better chance trying to pick up Zetterberg, because I seriously think half the Red Wings fanbase would rather lose him than Darren Helm.
Darren Helm is not untouchable, but he is in a crucial slot in our lineup and moving him makes just as little sense as moving Z. If you move Z at least you would get an elite player in return. Helm's value to the Wings is much greater than anything he could return, which is proven by him being involved in trades like this and people using him in place of 3rd round picks in a package.

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