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Old
08-10-2012, 12:43 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
You can say what you want, San Jose has the worst farm system in the NHL.
It's not great, but those rankings and how those players eventually play out are often two different things. I've also read where many say the Detroit system, though deep, doesn't have any superstar potential in the bunch. Should I automatically assume that is so?


But that wasn't the point of this thread, so I don't see why it is even being discussed.

Quote:
So bringing it up is going to be met with negativity anytime the Sharks fan-base makes the choice to do it.
I don't know who brought it up, but I doubt a Sharks fan would call their system better than Detroit's.

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They made a trade less than two months ago, now that seemed a formality because of Stuart's family situation but I am guessing the GMs do talk. I do think a fit is unlikely, Detroit seems to be making a transition that the Sharks probably should have thought about two years ago before doubling down.
Stuart was going to be a Shark, regardless. They worked out a deal so Wilson could sign him before July 1st (before his price could be driven up) and gave Detroit a token 7th.

These teams are not going to be making any significant deals with one another in the near future.

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08-10-2012, 12:44 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Luckily, their system isn't their concern at the moment. They have plenty of on-ice talent and depth on the pro level.

Eventual trades, hanging onto draft picks, and development of minor leaguers will help when the eventual re-tool is needed. Fortunately, this is a league where you can get good in a hurry if you have solid management running the show.
Their system better be their concern right now. Most of their top-tier NHL guys are on the wrong side of 30 and values are dropping, there's nothing in the system and if they dont win it all in the next year or so, they better start a major rebuild. Problem with that is most their core guys will be around 35..

The Sharks are in for a long climb back to respectability unless they do something pretty soon.

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08-10-2012, 12:47 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
agreed.

Couture 23
Pavelski 28
Clowe 29
Thornton 33
Marleau 32
Havlat 31
Burns 27
Boyle 36

I would say besides Couture, this team is built to win NOW.

Sadly I would say that team is better than Detroits:

Datsyuk 34
Zetterberg 31
Filppula 28
Franzen 32
Kronwall 31

Mostly because its about 8 Stars (6 forwards, 2 defenseman for SJ)
and 5 stars (4 forwards, 1 defenseman for DRW)

Now I suggest honestly a COMBO of SJ and DRW
flip a coin and one team trades EVERYONE under 25 to the other team and ALL prospects for every star.

Then we got a F#&$ing contender!!! LOL
Detroit will be relying on those players they have over-seasoned in the A. They have a great coach and system in place and a lot of high character guys as role models. They will have their ups and downs, but at the end of the season, I believe they will have a top-8 spot.

As for that last part, That would be a fun team to watch.

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08-10-2012, 12:48 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't want to dump anyone, I'm just giving a neutral fan's perspective on what I feel is fair value., and suits both teams.

That Boyle might retire in a year is a fair concern, maybe a Shark's fan can give some insight on his conditioning and willingness to play for a few more years.

And I was referring to the effect on your prospect pool that could be absorbed from the loss of Tatar and 1st, when you still have Smith, Jarnkok, Nyquist...

Losing Franzen hurts, but I think Boyle would do more for your team, and you also open roster spots for some of your prospects to start proving themselves.
I suppose the most simple response to this is, I just don't think the Red Wings need Boyle.

I mean there is just no replacing Lidstrom.

Honestly, if there is a player who has decent value that we want from the sharks, its Stuart back! lol

He is a great defenseman, and I think SJ doesn't know what they have yet!

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08-10-2012, 12:54 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Their system better be their concern right now. Most of their top-tier NHL guys are on the wrong side of 30 and values are dropping, there's nothing in the system and if they dont win it all in the next year or so, they better start a major rebuild. Problem with that is most their core guys will be around 35..

The Sharks are in for a long climb back to respectability unless they do something pretty soon.
It sounds like mostly hopes and wishes on your part.

Marleau and Thornton will be turning 33 this season. Each have at least 5 GOOD years left. Neither one has any injury problems and neither has regressed in overall play (Thornton has actually been a better overall player).

Boyle was a top-10 defenseman last year according to his TOI, Corsi and other meaningful d-man stats. His point totals have also been consistent in each of his 4 years in sj.

Another great thing about these 3, they're not tied into 14-year crazy contracts. Once their deals expire, the team has plenty of flexibility. They can re-sign them if they want, or use the money elsewhere and move Couture and Pavelski into even more meaningful roles.

The Sharks franchise has left themselves in good shape once the 13-14 season is over.

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08-10-2012, 12:57 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
It sounds like mostly hopes and wishes on your part.

Marleau and Thornton will be turning 33 this season. Each have at least 5 GOOD years left. Neither one has any injury problems and neither has regressed in overall play (Thornton has actually been a better overall player).

Boyle was a top-10 defenseman last year according to his TOI, Corsi and other meaningful d-man stats. His point totals have also been consistent in each of his 4 years in sj.

Another great thing about these 3, they're not tied into 14-year crazy contracts. Once their deals expire, the team has plenty of flexibility. They can re-sign them if they want, or use the money elsewhere and move Couture and Pavelski into even more meaningful roles.

The Sharks franchise has left themselves in good shape once the 13-14 season is over.
I concur with your assessment. The sharks are the "GOOD" version of the calgary flames. They have very little NHL ready talent right now, but all their assets are currently in the big club.

Only SJ is a contender. SJ also has a good 5 years to build their draft picks into a good system before they need anyone.

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08-10-2012, 01:03 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Their system better be their concern right now. Most of their top-tier NHL guys are on the wrong side of 30 and values are dropping, there's nothing in the system and if they dont win it all in the next year or so, they better start a major rebuild. Problem with that is most their core guys will be around 35..

The Sharks are in for a long climb back to respectability unless they do something pretty soon.
Their value may be dropping, but their productivity isn't. Thornton is a better player now than he was in his entire career. Pavelski had a career year in goals. Couture, Burns, and Vlasic are on the rise. Marleau had a down year, but hasn't really shown any signs of slowing down. Havlat is still at his peak, and Boyle can still produce at a #1 level.
They are only a year removed from consecutive WCFs. Their problem this year wasn't the players in the slightest, it was the horrible system. We'll see what happens this year with their 2 new coaches (and Ricci being more involved in coaching as well).

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08-10-2012, 01:03 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by 2MGoBlue2 View Post
I'd do the deal. However, I'd bump it up to Miller and 5th for Demers 4th. Just a better return for San Jose and I refuse to deny Andersson his right to take a flyer on some no-name kid who might become something in the last round.
Yeah I edited my post. So:

Sharks get:
Drew Miller
5th round pick


Red Wings get:
Jason Demers
4th round pick

That balances it out now.

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08-10-2012, 01:05 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
Yeah I edited my post. So:

Sharks get:
Drew Miller
5th round pick


Red Wings get:
Jason Demers
4th round pick

That's more fair for the Sharks.
Seriously? Why would the Sharks even consider this? Demers is still a young offensive D (who played like a #4 in 10-11). A main reason he was so bad this year was because he couldn't train as much in the off-season (high ankle sprain), and he was also paired with Colin White. No way the Sharks trade him for an 3rd/4th liner and a worse pick.

That is beyond horrible.

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08-10-2012, 01:07 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
I suppose the most simple response to this is, I just don't think the Red Wings need Boyle.

I mean there is just no replacing Lidstrom.


Honestly, if there is a player who has decent value that we want from the sharks, its Stuart back! lol

He is a great defenseman, and I think SJ doesn't know what they have yet!
So you strategy is not to address your defense until the next Lidstrom shows up?

Sure, every team would want a 21-year old stud #1, but sometimes you have to make do. Detroit can't afford to acquire a prime defenseman, and to waste prime years of Datsyuk and Zetterberg without a competitive defense would be a shame. Boyle's age make him cheaper, and in all liklihood he will play for long enough to make a few deep playoff runs as well as being a role model for Smith.

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08-10-2012, 01:17 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So you strategy is not to address your defense until the next Lidstrom shows up?

Sure, every team would want a 21-year old stud #1, but sometimes you have to make do. Detroit can't afford to acquire a prime defenseman, and to waste prime years of Datsyuk and Zetterberg without a competitive defense would be a shame. Boyle's age make him cheaper, and in all liklihood he will play for long enough to make a few deep playoff runs as well as being a role model for Smith.
Respectfully I disagree with some of that logic. I am more concerned with the long-term health of the team than just winning for Datsyuk and Zetterberg. I want the Wings to be good for a long time as a fan, I think they have a plan to be good for a very long time and that is why panic moves have not been made yet.

In any event how is trading away the best goal scorer + or Filppula and prospects for Boyle help them right now. Doesn't playing Cleary and Bert in the top six also waste the valuable time they have left. The Wings have spent a lot of time saying Nyquist, Kindl, Smith, and Tatar are going to be answers, well it is time for them to be answers. I like that better than a 36 year old d-man. Smith already plays a similar style to Kronwall who is his mentor and he had time last season with the club and in several preseasons to pick Lidstrom's brain. Kronwall and him also looked good together playing as partners and my guess is that will be a pairing by half way through the year. He talks about learning from Lidstrom often in interviews. He doesn't need Boyle as a mentor he can have Kronwall who wears an A and can teach him plenty. He can ask Chelios for advice, what the kid needs to do is play in the NHL and stop babying him because he is ready.

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08-10-2012, 01:21 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
I love reading posts where the poster doesn't actually know they're on a prospect's site.

Read up, slugger.

There's actually a whole forum and articles about them.
Obviously Detroit has some good prospects. Helm isn't a prospect and he is your only good young foward on your team. I know this is a prospect sight, it is called Hockey's Future. I look up prospects on this sight.

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08-10-2012, 01:27 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Obviously Detroit has some good prospects. Helm isn't a prospect and he is your only good young foward on your team. I know this is a prospect sight, it is called Hockey's Future. I look up prospects on this sight.
So which one of the four prospects in the top 50 didn't have enough flash for you?

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08-10-2012, 01:30 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
You can say what you want, San Jose has the worst farm system in the NHL. So bringing it up is going to be met with negativity anytime the Sharks fan-base makes the choice to do it.

They made a trade less than two months ago, now that seemed a formality because of Stuart's family situation but I am guessing the GMs do talk. I do think a fit is unlikely, Detroit seems to be making a transition that the Sharks probably should have thought about two years ago before doubling down.
Our 1st round pick in this draft Tomas Hertl looks very promising in my opinion.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospect...htm?dpid=10865

He had 23 points in 7 games in the under 18 world jrs in 09-10 which is pretty crazy.

Also did you read this article about Sean Kuraly?
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...vid=nhl-search

He's one of our under the radar prospects and apparently he's looking pretty good right now. I don't think our prospect pool is as bad as your saying. To be honest though, I don't know anything about the Red Wings' prospects so I can't comment on that.

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08-10-2012, 01:32 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
So which one of the four prospects in the top 50 didn't have enough flash for you?
I'm talking about established young fowards on the NHL squad not about prospects.

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08-10-2012, 01:34 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Respectfully I disagree with some of that logic. I am more concerned with the long-term health of the team than just winning for Datsyuk and Zetterberg. I want the Wings to be good for a long time as a fan, I think they have a plan to be good for a very long time and that is why panic moves have not been made yet.

In any event how is trading away the best goal scorer + or Filppula and prospects for Boyle help them right now. Doesn't playing Cleary and Bert in the top six also waste the valuable time they have left. The Wings have spent a lot of time saying Nyquist, Kindl, Smith, and Tatar are going to be answers, well it is time for them to be answers. I like that better than a 36 year old d-man. Smith already plays a similar style to Kronwall who is his mentor and he had time last season with the club and in several preseasons to pick Lidstrom's brain. Kronwall and him also looked good together playing as partners and my guess is that will be a pairing by half way through the year. He talks about learning from Lidstrom often in interviews. He doesn't need Boyle as a mentor he can have Kronwall who wears an A and can teach him plenty. He can ask Chelios for advice, what the kid needs to do is play in the NHL and stop babying him because he is ready.
Pretty much agree.

I think Smith will be a better CHOICE for detroit than Boyle.

Boyle is a great defenseman. But Detroit can't afford him honestly.


If we want to win now we need BOTH Boyle AND Franzen. Sure we could trade away ALL our prospects to find a way to make our team just the mold of SJ. with 6 solid forwards and 2-3 solid D and no prospects, but honestly, our chance to do that was NOT through trading... it was through FA signings. And we missed out on Suter/Weber/Parise/Semin/Doan... so now we are just going to have to live with the youngings turn.

Maybe they will succeed, maybe not, but I do not like the idea of trading away core pieces. (how do you get better then?)

we have 2 real options.

1) The kids get good, and all of a sudden people start talking about how amazing detroits drafting is AGAIN.

2) the kids fail or underperform, and we need to sign FA's next year or the next year to go for a run with Datsyuk and Zetterberg



I do not even want to think about a rebuild... that was the ENTIRE 80's... people assume tanking to rebuild is a real option.. well it really isn't. It could take 10 years to rebuild right.

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08-10-2012, 01:40 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
Pretty much agree.

I think Smith will be a better CHOICE for detroit than Boyle.

Boyle is a great defenseman. But Detroit can't afford him honestly.


If we want to win now we need BOTH Boyle AND Franzen. Sure we could trade away ALL our prospects to find a way to make our team just the mold of SJ. with 6 solid forwards and 2-3 solid D and no prospects, but honestly, our chance to do that was NOT through trading... it was through FA signings. And we missed out on Suter/Weber/Parise/Semin/Doan... so now we are just going to have to live with the youngings turn.

Maybe they will succeed, maybe not, but I do not like the idea of trading away core pieces. (how do you get better then?)

we have 2 real options.

1) The kids get good, and all of a sudden people start talking about how amazing detroits drafting is AGAIN.

2) the kids fail or underperform, and we need to sign FA's next year or the next year to go for a run with Datsyuk and Zetterberg



I do not even want to think about a rebuild... that was the ENTIRE 80's... people assume tanking to rebuild is a real option.. well it really isn't. It could take 10 years to rebuild right.
Well the real option if they fail which is probably unthinkable to a lot of Detroit fans is you trade Datsyuk going into his contract year for a big return to someone that is obviously one piece away. Assuming free agency continues to come up empty the next year and to be honest a lot of that awesome 2013 class isn't going to make it to free agency. It has already taken a significant dent.

That is hard to even say but if this year is a bust, what are the chances Pavel sticks around anyway after the next season. He will be 36 and able to cash in on a mega contract in Russia. Those are the cold hard facts if you're a realistic Wings fan. Filppula also then becomes an attractive rental if he will not sign long-term. Starting to worry with the way they are shopping him his contract demands are bad. Signing Howard is also important right now.

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08-10-2012, 01:42 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
I'm talking about established young fowards on the NHL squad not about prospects.
Sorry thought with the avatar for a second you were this guy that started the whole prospect debate to begin with. That was my bad.

I am kind of too high on prospects, one of those guys that is kind of a prospect junky. I do like Hertl and Freddie Hamilton, but outside of that I remain unsold on Nieto. Hamilton is going to have to bulk up to play the same style in the NHL, but I think he will the kid is a gamer. In any event it was just I am extremely high on a lot of the Wings prospects. It is the best the system has been since the early 90's.

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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
That's completely untrue, we have some very solid prospects, people are just looking for flash. Red Wings don't have any real flash in their system either, for the same reason. Good drafting takes time to develop.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 08-10-2012 at 01:47 AM.
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08-10-2012, 02:00 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
Our 1st round pick in this draft Tomas Hertl looks very promising in my opinion.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospect...htm?dpid=10865

He had 23 points in 7 games in the under 18 world jrs in 09-10 which is pretty crazy.

Also did you read this article about Sean Kuraly?
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...vid=nhl-search

He's one of our under the radar prospects and apparently he's looking pretty good right now. I don't think our prospect pool is as bad as your saying. To be honest though, I don't know anything about the Red Wings' prospects so I can't comment on that.
Don't forget Nieto. Unfortunately for him, according to one poster, he doesn't possess even a fifth of Pulkkinen's offensive talent. I do wonder if that truly is the case...given that Nieto is a highly skilled offensive talent and one of the brightest players in college hockey today...why isn't Pulkkinen the number one rated prospect in all of hockey?

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08-10-2012, 02:08 AM
  #120
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Sorry thought with the avatar for a second you were this guy that started the whole prospect debate to begin with. That was my bad.

I am kind of too high on prospects, one of those guys that is kind of a prospect junky. I do like Hertl and Freddie Hamilton, but outside of that I remain unsold on Nieto. Hamilton is going to have to bulk up to play the same style in the NHL, but I think he will the kid is a gamer. In any event it was just I am extremely high on a lot of the Wings prospects. It is the best the system has been since the early 90's.
No worries. I'm hoping Hamilton can become a solid 3rd line center of the future maybe a 2nd line center. Out of all our prospects Hertl has the most potential. I think he can become a #1 center for us. I see Nieto becoming a solid top 6 sniper. Our system isn't as bad as people think. We have some solid guys but none of them except Hertl IMO have elite/superstar potential.

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08-10-2012, 02:08 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Sorry thought with the avatar for a second you were this guy that started the whole prospect debate to begin with. That was my bad.

I am kind of too high on prospects, one of those guys that is kind of a prospect junky. I do like Hertl and Freddie Hamilton, but outside of that I remain unsold on Nieto. Hamilton is going to have to bulk up to play the same style in the NHL, but I think he will the kid is a gamer. In any event it was just I am extremely high on a lot of the Wings prospects. It is the best the system has been since the early 90's.
What are you unsold on about Nieto and why?

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08-10-2012, 02:17 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
No worries. I'm hoping Hamilton can become a solid 3rd line center of the future maybe a 2nd line center. Out of all our prospects Hertl has the most potential. I think he can become a #1 center for us. I see Nieto becoming a solid top 6 sniper. Our system isn't as bad as people think. We have some solid guys but none of them except Hertl IMO have elite/superstar potential.
I'd put Nieto in that category. The guy just oozes offense and flash. I think this year he establishes himself as a top prospect.

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08-10-2012, 02:30 AM
  #123
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Demers for Helm? Ehh? EHHH?
I'm on board with this.

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08-10-2012, 03:04 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice View Post
What are you unsold on about Nieto and why?
He doesn't possess a very heavy shot in my opinion, not NHL quality to date. I like his speed but would hope for a big junior season. He does damage in streaks to date. He had a huge November and February if I remember right. Have seen him play for BU because I wanted to watch Nicastro before he got tossed from the team, followed less intently after that I will admit. He also remains pretty slight and is more a playmaker than goal scorer, which I guess is fine but the Sharks already have a lot of those. He is going to need to fill out and get a little grittier. When comparing him to our top ten you're doing it with an NCAA player versus a lot of guys that are pros or players coming off dynamite seasons in the AHL and CHL. I don't think he is terrible just want to see him have a big junior year before I fully buy in. Not insulting the kid really, I just know a lot more about our guys and would like a pause before annointing Nieto in the same manner from the times I have seen him. Was disappointed he didn't get a better shot to make the USA WJC team. For instance compare him to Nyquist a kid that was more than an honorable mention for all-star hockey east and abused that league and then the AHL. There is a debate if Tatar or Jurco has more talent than Nyquist. I am just saying I want another season to evaluate Nieto to place him over some of these guys. He would be very hard pressed to crack the top 5 even if I am being hyperbolic in regards to our pool while saying ten. Even with that as the case I still wouldn't trade one of our top 10 guys for him personally and I don't mean that disrespectfully, even if my word choice and post was a little heavy handed. It was born out of the no flash in the system when if I could describe half the prospects in it would fit that term.

On Pulkkinen I remain skeptical but his ceiling is among the highest in terms of Detroit prospects. I hate the way the kid skates but he has a dynamite shot. He was rated third by the Hockey News coming into his draft year in the early look draft issue behind behind Hall and Gudbranson (less sure on him but Pulks was third) before missing most of the season due to injury. He has always been tagged a top 10 talent, the year after his draft he threatened Selanne's 18 year old age scoring record in SM-Liiga. Last year he had a down year, I question if he will cope well with the smaller ice and the reduction in time and space. However his skill set and the fact he is already pushing 200 lbs at 5'10"/5'11" depending on who you believe are signs physially he won' be too small to hack it. The guy really is the embodiment of flash, high risk and high reward. He is certainly in the discussion with Jarnkrok, Nyquist and Jurco as to has the most offensive upside in the entire Wings system.

Do I honestly think he gets there? No, that is why I said he was our 12th rated prospect for me personally. But here are some of the things Wings brass says about him from redwingscentral.com

http://www.redwingscentral.com/prosp...emu-pulkkinen/

Quote:
“He loves to have the puck, he loves being on the power play,and he shoots the puck all the time. He’s like Jari Kurri. It’s a nice thing to say, but it’s true, and Jari Kurri wasn’t the fastest skater either … He’s a goal-scorer, which is really hard to find these days, but he can also make plays. He has a good shot and he’s so smart at finding openings.” — Red Wings scout Ari Vuori (June 2010)
Quote:
“We might have a poor-man’s Brett Hull on our hands because he has a hell of a shot.” — Red Wings scout Hakan Andersson (January 2012)
Quote:
“He’s a pure goal-scorer, with a Brett Hull type of shot; loves to shoot the puck, has a great release. Europeans aren’t known as shooters, but he has a Brett Hull type of mentality. Finds open spots, lets it rip.” — Red Wings assistant GM Jim Nill (MLive.com, May 2012)
Andersson and Nill are two of the best in the business as far as talent evaluators. Interestingly they have actually morphed from calling him Jari Kurri to Brett Hull. So yeah the upside is real. So my opinion on him is not much different than Nieto. They both have some nice upsides, I am not completely sold on either reaching their maximum potential. What I can say is that if Pulkkinen reaches his zenith as far as people think of him, he will be a much bigger deal.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 08-10-2012 at 03:19 AM.
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08-10-2012, 03:38 AM
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TheJuxtaposer
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So this has turned into a "bash the Sharks prospect pool" thread? Great. Let's all have a laugh at the Sharks to feel better about ourselves.

1. NHL-proven players are better than prospects. The Sharks have Couture, Burns, Vlasic, Pavelski, Demers, Braun, all 27 and under. That's a top pairing, a #4 defenseman, and a current #5 which tons of potential, and a solid 1-2 punch at center. The Sharks may not have the best prospect pool in the league (obviously), but they have a very underrated group. Worst in the league (which is debatable, but definitely in the bottom 5) doesn't mean we don't have a solid group. For defense, all we really need is a couple of bottom-pairing guys. On offense, is our problem, but we have Couture and Pavelski down the middle, which is the most important position, and we have a few youngsters who go quite under the radar. Matt Nieto, as you mentioned, was quite streaky, but he's got a spectacular set of wheels and good hands and he is young for a junior-to-be, and he outscored Chris Kreider in Hockey East last season. Tomas Hertl had a great season in the Czech Elite league, winning the rookie of the year and if he can get his skating up to NHL-averge (which is something the Sharks org is quite good at, examples are Couture, Pavelski, Clowe). Freddie Hamilton looks to be a great 3rd liner, as Darren Helm is, with great defense, intelligent decision making, PKing, and a decent amount of scoring pop. Sean Kuraly exploded in the USHL this past season and is ripping apart the WJC USA camp. Tommy Wingels is a kid who made the team last season out of camp, was sent down, dutifully worked on all of his flaws, was AHL player of the week, and impressed the hell out of everyone down the stretch. Sebastian Stalberg and Travis Oleksuk were free agent signings, but they are very solid players who impressed in their short time in the AHL at the end of last season, and Sharks fans of all people understand the value of FA prospect signings, like Michal Sgarbossa, who everyone seems to love as soon as he left the Sharks pool.

So yeah, we don't have a ton of high-end prospects. But we have guys who could potentially fill in what holes there are. Thornton and Marleau, like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, will play for a long time. So please, stop with the pissing contest and respect that nobody can predict the future. The Sharks turned a 7th round pick in 2003 into Joe Pavelski. They turned a 6th round pick in 2001 into Ryane Clowe. They turned a 4th round pick in 2001 into Christian Ehrhoff. They turned a 7th round overage pick in 2007 into Justin Braun, and a 7th round overage pick in 2008 into Jason Demers. As Wings fans, you all should recognize that you don't need 1st round picks and highly touted prospects to maintain a high level of performance from your team.

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