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Is the D underrated?

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Old
08-10-2012, 11:23 AM
  #51
Jopsey
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I don't think Stoner gets enough credit. He's a good veteran shut down defensemen and is good to have on your team. And he can really throw em when he drops the gloves.

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08-10-2012, 12:33 PM
  #52
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Most of us agreed that Suter would do much more for this team than Parise would, but now that we have Suter, the D-corp improves dramatically. We can slot guys down a level that shouldn't be on the top pairing although I'm not sure how ready I am to say that Spurgeon should be playing top pairing, but I get the idea with the Scandella-Gilbert pairing (which may have in turn helped Scandella become better).

I wouldn't say that our D is underrated, but it's middle of the pack with a possibility of coming into it's own in a few years with the additions of Dumba and Brodin with Suter.

I think the thing to remember is we're not just going to have Suter for 1 or 2 years, he's with us for the rest of his career which is absolutely phenomenal.

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08-10-2012, 01:14 PM
  #53
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Scandella before he was rushed up here could have been a #2 defenseman. I still think he can be a solid top four defenseman who can be a little above average with the puck while also being a strong shutdown guy. I think he'd be an excellent complement to someone like Brodin (outstanding puck mover but maybe not so physical).

Really it's great to have Scandy, Spurgeon, Brodin, and Dumba in the toy chest (along with Suter and Gilbert).

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08-10-2012, 01:27 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Scandella before he was rushed up here could have been a #2 defenseman. I still think he can be a solid top four defenseman who can be a little above average with the puck while also being a strong shutdown guy. I think he'd be an excellent complement to someone like Brodin (outstanding puck mover but maybe not so physical).

Really it's great to have Scandy, Spurgeon, Brodin, and Dumba in the toy chest (along with Suter and Gilbert).
Agreed. The young guns are in a good position to be in. There's a couple good mentors - also good players - yet there's a chance to play big minutes. I really like the overall potential of the D. IMO the top 4 is good already but in the future there could be 3 solid pairings.

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08-10-2012, 01:27 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopsey View Post
I don't think Stoner gets enough credit. He's a good veteran shut down defensemen and is good to have on your team. And he can really throw em when he drops the gloves.
I doubt he will now that the Wild have Konopka.

Not to mention, he got a finger injury in his last fight IIRC.

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08-10-2012, 01:47 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopsey View Post
I don't think Stoner gets enough credit. He's a good veteran shut down defensemen and is good to have on your team. And he can really throw em when he drops the gloves.
David Backes agrees

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08-10-2012, 02:26 PM
  #57
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not to mention he seems to get injured more often when he fights. IIRC he suffered a major shoulder injury in a fight as well.

If scandella never attains a universally agreed upon #2 defenseman status it has nothing to do with "rushing". He just doesn't have the hockey smarts he needs or if you want to look at it another way he doesn't do any one thing well enough to grant him that status. He could end up being solid in any number of categories but he doesn't excel at anything IMO. Slow learner? He could still make it (i really don't think he will, or ever would have regardless of his path) but it'll take him longer to show that talent.

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08-10-2012, 02:49 PM
  #58
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Can we at least wait until Scandella has 100 games under his belt before we start labeling him a top-2, top-4, or bust? People said he was a roster lock last summer, and then acted all surprised when he spends some time in Houston and struggles a bit in the NHL.

How about we all just realize that most NHL defensemen don't figure things out until they are 23-25? It's harder to make the jump to the NHL as a Dman.

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08-10-2012, 02:50 PM
  #59
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Don't people remember that wasn't until Burns FOURTH season before he broke out?

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08-10-2012, 03:07 PM
  #60
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I do, which is why I'm not as sour on Scandy as a lot of guys were a couple weeks back, who kind of had him maxed out already.

Personally I would like to see him spend some time in Houston and really get things down. Some guys are super quick to adjust to the pro game (Spurgeon) some take time to figure it all out (Burns). Doesn't mean they won't get there, but it reduces the odds.

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08-10-2012, 03:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
the addition of Suter is huge.

Did you figure that out all by yourself?? I think your preaching to the choir my friend

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08-10-2012, 04:00 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Can we at least wait until Scandella has 100 games under his belt before we start labeling him a top-2, top-4, or bust?
Can we then at least agree he's got a long road ahead of him before he cements himself as an NHL player? Especially one that plays legitimate minutes on a quality blue line?

I get that people are tantalized with certain elements of what he's got to work with. However, until this game seems to start to slow down for him and he can effectively use the frame he's built up, I'm not going to count on the guy as a viable option for this corps. That's just the reality of his game, this blue line, and in general a 22 year old player.

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08-10-2012, 09:41 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
Can we then at least agree he's got a long road ahead of him before he cements himself as an NHL player? Especially one that plays legitimate minutes on a quality blue line?

I get that people are tantalized with certain elements of what he's got to work with. However, until this game seems to start to slow down for him and he can effectively use the frame he's built up, I'm not going to count on the guy as a viable option for this corps. That's just the reality of his game, this blue line, and in general a 22 year old player.
Mike Yeo seems to disagree with you...

When Scandella was on his game he was playing 21-23 minutes a night. Easily one of the tops on the team. He had many games over 25 minutes.

Oh yeah and after the call up he had a stretch of 15-20 games where he averaged around 23 minutes a night.

Me thinks he's a little closer than just trying to cement himself as an NHL player. Scandella easily is top 4 for the entire season next year.

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08-10-2012, 10:16 PM
  #64
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08-11-2012, 04:13 PM
  #65
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our team & our D had the worst GF in the league last yr, however 226GA really wasn't that bad considering our D was mostly rookies. i think our D will only improve with time. if stoner or falk cant be the big, mean & nasty crease clearing D-men we need, time to upgrade those guys. just my 1 cent. ps noway do the goalies get all the credit for last yr, just look at the GAA. not that good.

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08-11-2012, 04:21 PM
  #66
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08-11-2012, 04:35 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANOZ28 View Post
our team & our D had the worst GF in the league last yr, however 226GA really wasn't that bad considering our D was mostly rookies. i think our D will only improve with time. if stoner or falk cant be the big, mean & nasty crease clearing D-men we need, time to upgrade those guys. just my 1 cent. ps noway do the goalies get all the credit for last yr, just look at the GAA. not that good.
Would you still blame the goalie for a bad GAA if you threw him out there every night by himself and let the opposition score 30 goals?
The GAA was "not that good" because the defense was horrible all year and after massive re-shuffling due to injuries forwards who were playing responsible defensively in their natural roles were jammed into new ones.

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08-11-2012, 06:12 PM
  #68
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I hate the GAA stat. That is a team stat, not a goalie stat. Look at save percentage. That is a lot closer to how well a goaltender performs.

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08-11-2012, 06:14 PM
  #69
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I'm not at all "down" on Scandella. . . I just don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect a non-expansion team that expects to be a playoff team to have at least one experienced NHL veteran d-man on every pair. Right now we don't.

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08-11-2012, 06:22 PM
  #70
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I think we are disappointed in Scandella because we thought he might be a top pairing, maybe top 3 defenseman but shown more of a top 5 type of guy.

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08-11-2012, 06:40 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
Mike Yeo seems to disagree with you...

When Scandella was on his game he was playing 21-23 minutes a night. Easily one of the tops on the team. He had many games over 25 minutes.

Oh yeah and after the call up he had a stretch of 15-20 games where he averaged around 23 minutes a night.

Me thinks he's a little closer than just trying to cement himself as an NHL player. Scandella easily is top 4 for the entire season next year.
They seemed particularly happy with how he played with Gilbert. Which, to play my broken record again, is why it is good to have an experienced vet on every pair.

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08-11-2012, 06:51 PM
  #72
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Burns looked a lot better after being paired up with Carney. So who knows?

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08-11-2012, 09:35 PM
  #73
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Underrated? No. Underestimated? Maybe.
I don't think they are underrated because they haven't shown to be anything more than a slightly below average group (even when accounting for Suter). However, I do think that with Spurgeon, Scandella and Brodin, they have pretty high ceiling and I think that might be a little underestimated by outsiders. The odds of all of these guys reaching their ceilings isn't great (Scandella in particular), but if they did, this group could take a lot of people by surprise. Even before Dumba has a shot, if Scandella and Brodin progressed to the point that we could have a Spurgeon- Stoner third pairing, the blue line might look a lot better going into next season.

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08-12-2012, 10:39 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Specifically when Gilbert was with the Wild.

Basing my opinion on this:

(Plus, my own opinion from watching both Schultz and Gilbert play)

Key: Blue circles are good, white circles are bad; they reflect shots on goal (for=blue and against=white) when the player was on the ice. As you can see, Schultz is a medium-sized white circle while Gilbert is a medium-sized blue circle (albeit with smaller sample size). This explains player position on the chart; Gilbert was somewhere in-between a "Shut-down" and "Two-way" Dman, which is good. Schultz was mainly used in a "Shut-down" roll, which is fine; however, Gilbert shouldered tougher defensive responsibilities while still producing offense.





Feel free to check the attached Player Usage Charts (2011-12).

this is amazing.

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08-12-2012, 10:49 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I think we are disappointed in Scandella because we thought he might be a top pairing, maybe top 3 defenseman but shown more of a top 5 type of guy.

Scandella just finished his 2nd year of professional hockey and is just 22. Typically year 3 is when the light bulb truly goes on, but you saw a completely different player when Scandizzle came back from his stint in Houston. He and Tom Gilbert were so rocksteady for nearly 30 minutes a night toward the end.

I think he is a stone cold lock for our top 4 for years, and is likely our heir apparent to Nick Schultz- he complements Gilbert's puck moving ability so well, but has more ability than Schultz has. He's only scratched the surface imo.

Now, as for the group as a whole- remember that Yeo's system is about transistions and a heavy forecheck; the D's role is to move the puck up to the forwards- not rush the puck the length of the ice, make flashy plays, etc. So when folks just look at the depth chart and make surface assessments, they aren't looking at the context of how Yeo wants them to play. Defend, get the puck, and move it up- the forwards will control the play.

I do think Suter's presence will be huge in every phase of the game, but I would like to see Brodin step up and be his partner. I like Spurgeon better in sheltered minutes against lower competition even though he can play tough minutes.

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