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08-09-2012, 10:22 PM
  #176
CGYPUKSUX
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If I were the Flames I'd use Detroit to push Philadelphia into a deal. The Flyers are desperate for a top pairing defenseman and Bouwmeester could fit the bill. Maybe something along the lines of Bouwmeester and Backlund for Couturier and Meszaros (dump). Play the two off each other and hope to land that big fish from the team most desperate.

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08-09-2012, 11:40 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
If I were the Flames I'd use Detroit to push Philadelphia into a deal. The Flyers are desperate for a top pairing defenseman and Bouwmeester could fit the bill. Maybe something along the lines of Bouwmeester and Backlund for Couturier and Meszaros (dump). Play the two off each other and hope to land that big fish from the team most desperate.

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08-10-2012, 08:56 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
If I were the Flames I'd use Detroit to push Philadelphia into a deal. The Flyers are desperate for a top pairing defenseman and Bouwmeester could fit the bill. Maybe something along the lines of Bouwmeester and Backlund for Couturier and Meszaros (dump). Play the two off each other and hope to land that big fish from the team most desperate.
Im down for anything that lands us couturier but meszaros is out for the whole season basically so id prefer a different d man coming back. id take pretty much any on else except kimmo.

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08-10-2012, 09:43 AM
  #179
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Flyers have no interest in trading Kimmo anyways. He's getting up there in age, but he's extremely efficient in running the point on the PP with G.

Depending on how desperate they are, I suggested this as a trade on the main boards.

To Calgary:

Couts, Gus

To Philly:

Jbo, Backlund, 1st round pick

Many of the posters on our board are going to say that is way to steep of a price to pay, but Couturier will likely end up being a premier 2-way center in the NHL. He has the defensive ability of a Mike Richards, but he has superior size and I feel he has a better offensive skill set.

Based on where our roster is at, we will probably be selecting in the middle of the pack again. Hindsight, Couturier should of been selected probably within the top 3 of his draft. There is no way we would get someone that is on the level of Couts with our 1st round pick. While its alot to give up, I would make that deal.

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08-10-2012, 10:23 AM
  #180
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Im down for anything that lands us couturier but meszaros is out for the whole season basically so id prefer a different d man coming back. id take pretty much any on else except kimmo.
The whole idea of taking back Meszaros is that it is a no cost move for either team and is a direct benefit for both teams. Philadelphia frees up a contract for a player they would have to sit on, which is a benefit and a reasonable cost to Calgary for the inclusion of Couturier. Calgary eats the long term contract, and assumes the cap hit, but is given immediate cap relief based on injury status. The Flames can still go out and grab a middle of the road defender, or even give an opportunity to one of their kids, and be no worse off now or in the long run. Eating Meszaros as part of the trade is a risk, but one worth taking to acquire a player with big potential in the middle.

I actually think this deal makes sense and is sort of similar to the Staal deal, where the Pens got back a lesser center, but one that fits in their lineup long term. The Flyers give up a center with top end potential, but they get one back with 2nd or 3rd line ability and one that fits nicely in with their existing centers. The Flyers would still have Briere, Giroux, Schenn and Backlund as their centers, and then have Bouwmeester on the blueline. They don't lose anything in their center depth except the high end potential, which Couturier may never have a chance to fulfill playing behind Briere, Giroux and Schenn. After the acquisition of Luke, it is obvious the Flyers are going to be sticking with Brayden, making Couturier the odd man out.

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08-10-2012, 10:52 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
The whole idea of taking back Meszaros is that it is a no cost move for either team and is a direct benefit for both teams. Philadelphia frees up a contract for a player they would have to sit on, which is a benefit and a reasonable cost to Calgary for the inclusion of Couturier. Calgary eats the long term contract, and assumes the cap hit, but is given immediate cap relief based on injury status. The Flames can still go out and grab a middle of the road defender, or even give an opportunity to one of their kids, and be no worse off now or in the long run. Eating Meszaros as part of the trade is a risk, but one worth taking to acquire a player with big potential in the middle.

I actually think this deal makes sense and is sort of similar to the Staal deal, where the Pens got back a lesser center, but one that fits in their lineup long term. The Flyers give up a center with top end potential, but they get one back with 2nd or 3rd line ability and one that fits nicely in with their existing centers. The Flyers would still have Briere, Giroux, Schenn and Backlund as their centers, and then have Bouwmeester on the blueline. They don't lose anything in their center depth except the high end potential, which Couturier may never have a chance to fulfill playing behind Briere, Giroux and Schenn. After the acquisition of Luke, it is obvious the Flyers are going to be sticking with Brayden, making Couturier the odd man out.
Originally thats what I thought as well, however Schenn played some wing at on a line with Couts at the end last year. So the plan may be to move Schenn to wing and have him play on a line with Couturier.

But I do agree, you would think in theory that Couturier should be the most expendable, but he does have the highest upside which is why many claim him to be untouchable.

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08-10-2012, 11:35 AM
  #182
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Likely going to be a point of contention with most HFBoards posters, but I'm curious as to whether JBo could get Cooter straight up. I get the feeling he's recognized very much as a solid (if somewhat unspectacular and slightly overpaid) #1 defenceman in the league, and if Philly is feeling pressure to perform in the near future, it could make him valuable enough to them to give up one of their centres (they do have extensive depth there, after all).

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08-10-2012, 12:56 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Flyers have no interest in trading Kimmo anyways. He's getting up there in age, but he's extremely efficient in running the point on the PP with G.

Depending on how desperate they are, I suggested this as a trade on the main boards.

To Calgary:

Couts, Gus

To Philly:

Jbo, Backlund, 1st round pick

Many of the posters on our board are going to say that is way to steep of a price to pay, but Couturier will likely end up being a premier 2-way center in the NHL. He has the defensive ability of a Mike Richards, but he has superior size and I feel he has a better offensive skill set.

Based on where our roster is at, we will probably be selecting in the middle of the pack again. Hindsight, Couturier should of been selected probably within the top 3 of his draft. There is no way we would get someone that is on the level of Couts with our 1st round pick. While its alot to give up, I would make that deal.
I don't think the Flyers will give up Couts in a trade for JBO
The rumor was they wouldn't even include Couts in a trade for Weber...

However I wonder if the Flyers would be willing to package B. Schenn & Read & Grossman for JBO & Backlund & Anton

I know L. Schenn just joined the Flyers but come on - if Holmgren likes the deal he will go for it

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08-10-2012, 12:59 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Likely going to be a point of contention with most HFBoards posters, but I'm curious as to whether JBo could get Cooter straight up. I get the feeling he's recognized very much as a solid (if somewhat unspectacular and slightly overpaid) #1 defenceman in the league, and if Philly is feeling pressure to perform in the near future, it could make him valuable enough to them to give up one of their centres (they do have extensive depth there, after all).
I think most Flames fans do that trade in a heartbeat; I think most Flyers fans would end up with torches and pitchforks demanding Holmgren's head (mostly due to the overhype of Couts and the apparent stigma surrounding Bouwmeester).

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08-10-2012, 01:36 PM
  #185
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As much as I think JBow will excel in Calgary if he stays, it seems like his value may be as high as it ever will be, so if Featers can cash in on that now he should.

With that said, I don't think that getting Flip+ as has been reported, is enough to warrant a trade, unless that + is a VERY solid prospect Like Nyqvist or Brunner. Really, unless we can get someone like Couts or B.Schenn out of Philly (pieces may need to be added on both sides to even out, but JBow & Couts as centerpieces), or something similar, I don't think it makes sense to trade him.

Realistically, would Philly consider trading either Schenn or Couts in a package for JBow? I know they are high on them both, but they have a ton of depth there and it seems are interested in JBow. I have heard people talk of including Backlund, which to me may be enough to tempt them (again, other pieces may need to be involved).

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08-10-2012, 01:47 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hendog View Post
I don't think the Flyers will give up Couts in a trade for JBO
The rumor was they wouldn't even include Couts in a trade for Weber...

However I wonder if the Flyers would be willing to package B. Schenn & Read & Grossman for JBO & Backlund & Anton

I know L. Schenn just joined the Flyers but come on - if Holmgren likes the deal he will go for it
The key word there is "include". Nsh weren't asking just for Cooter, they were allegedly asking for Cooter plus a bunch of other assets. Who knows if they'd have done a 1-for-1; they also may not have been aware of the full extent of Meszaros' injury at the time.

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08-10-2012, 02:32 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by The Hendog View Post
I don't think the Flyers will give up Couts in a trade for JBO
The rumor was they wouldn't even include Couts in a trade for Weber...

However I wonder if the Flyers would be willing to package B. Schenn & Read & Grossman for JBO & Backlund & Anton

I know L. Schenn just joined the Flyers but come on - if Holmgren likes the deal he will go for it
Really depends how you take that though. Maybe Holmgren would be fine moving Cout straight up for Weber, but maybe Nashville wanted more? Now that Philly has brought in both Schenn's it seems like Couturier might move before them, but you never know what could happen with Mad Holmgren behind the desk.

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08-10-2012, 04:01 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
The key word there is "include". Nsh weren't asking just for Cooter, they were allegedly asking for Cooter plus a bunch of other assets. Who knows if they'd have done a 1-for-1; they also may not have been aware of the full extent of Meszaros' injury at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary83 View Post
Really depends how you take that though. Maybe Holmgren would be fine moving Cout straight up for Weber, but maybe Nashville wanted more? Now that Philly has brought in both Schenn's it seems like Couturier might move before them, but you never know what could happen with Mad Holmgren behind the desk.
Well if Feaster could some how land Couts for JBO as the two main pieces in a deal - I would probably pee my pants with joy

He is the big young talented center the Flames have lacked since the dawn of time it feels like and it would be so so sweet to put him with Iggy and Cammy or Iggy and Tangs

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08-10-2012, 04:11 PM
  #189
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He is the big young talented center the Flames have lacked since the dawn of time it feels like and it would be so so sweet to put him with Iggy and Cammy or Iggy and Tangs
The last C I can think of that was "big and talented" was George Pelawa...and we all know how that story goes.

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08-10-2012, 04:17 PM
  #190
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I see Couts playing with Baertschi until they retire, same draft, same age, their games compliment each other.

Then hopefully we have Janko in the pipe who would fill in down the road. We would be sitting great!

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08-10-2012, 04:23 PM
  #191
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I see Couts playing with Baertschi until they retire, same draft, same age, their games compliment each other.

Then hopefully we have Janko in the pipe who would fill in down the road. We would be sitting great!
That would also be sweet
I think I would slide a Glencross onto that line to add some grit and toughness and hopefully create some more space for Couts and Sven

Plus Glencross can also score himself so

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08-10-2012, 05:34 PM
  #192
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I see Couts playing with Baertschi until they retire, same draft, same age, their games compliment each other.

Then hopefully we have Janko in the pipe who would fill in down the road. We would be sitting great!
I like this. Philly fans hate it, but I think It's more possible than not. They are mega talented up front, people like to forget they still have Danny Briere. More than enough centers up and down the lineup to be able to move Couturier.

Having Sven + Couts... That is a nasty first line down the road. Like, Christ that's nice.

I'm just hoping he gets traded to hear all the back tracking which ever tram picks him up for a ridiculous overpayment gives.

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08-10-2012, 06:23 PM
  #193
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They don't forget they have Briere, they just prefer to have him play wing because they don't necessarily have the most elite wingers to play alongside their talented centers. I highly doubt Bouwmeester could fetch Couturier, and I don't care how desperate Philly is, Holms ain't that stupid.

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08-10-2012, 06:24 PM
  #194
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I like this. Philly fans hate it, but I think It's more possible than not. They are mega talented up front, people like to forget they still have Danny Briere. More than enough centers up and down the lineup to be able to move Couturier.

Having Sven + Couts... That is a nasty first line down the road. Like, Christ that's nice.

I'm just hoping he gets traded to hear all the back tracking which ever tram picks him up for a ridiculous overpayment gives.
I think unless we offer Sven it is impossible for us to get Couts no matter how much me want him he looks like a younger Toews but I would love to get him at almost any cost.

But with that said

Quote:
According to the report, the Red Wings stepped up their interest in Bouwmeester after learning the Philadelphia Flyers could make an offer in the wake of losing rearguard Andrej Meszaros all of next season with a torn Achilles tendon.
If there is a bidding war we could get a serious overpayment for Jbow.


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08-10-2012, 08:17 PM
  #195
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Let's say before a draft, the Flames were to make a pitch to get a top 5 pick, Jbo wouldn't land that alone. I don't think Bouwmeester would get Couts straight up either, but with how desperate Philly is for a dman this may be our opportunity to leverage a player like Couturier from the Flyers. What I mean is that if the Flames add to deal, then maybe we have a shot to get him.

What I would offer is Jbo, Backlund and a 1st. Value wise I think its bang on. They get their top pairing dman, a young center with upside who can play on the 3rd next year, and a draft pick that they may view as a top 15 pick in a deep draft. I would just ask for Gus to come back our way to help restock our defensive depth.

Feaster can always move vets like Stemps, Comeau etc. at the upcoming deadline to help add some more draft picks. It would suck to lose our 1st, but with all the prospects we added over the last 2 drafts, I think we will survive.

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08-10-2012, 08:27 PM
  #196
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I think unless we offer Sven it is impossible for us to get Couts no matter how much me want him he looks like a younger Toews but I would love to get him at almost any cost.

But with that said



If there is a bidding war we could get a serious overpayment for Jbow.
For Sven & Jbow? That's crazy talk. Couts is a great young player, but I'm sick of this organization picking up other people's scraps and players. I want us to start drafting like the Flyers, not over pay and give away assets so their organization can reap the rewards. How pathetic is it when their on-ice product far defeats ours because they have better people at watching hockey games (scouts)?

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08-10-2012, 08:30 PM
  #197
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Let's say before a draft, the Flames were to make a pitch to get a top 5 pick, Jbo wouldn't land that alone. I don't think Bouwmeester would get Couts straight up either, but with how desperate Philly is for a dman this may be our opportunity to leverage a player like Couturier from the Flyers. What I mean is that if the Flames add to deal, then maybe we have a shot to get him.

What I would offer is Jbo, Backlund and a 1st. Value wise I think its bang on. They get their top pairing dman, a young center with upside who can play on the 3rd next year, and a draft pick that they may view as a top 15 pick in a deep draft. I would just ask for Gus to come back our way to help restock our defensive depth.

Feaster can always move vets like Stemps, Comeau etc. at the upcoming deadline to help add some more draft picks. It would suck to lose our 1st, but with all the prospects we added over the last 2 drafts, I think we will survive.
Now this is just getting crazy. People around here think Couts is the second coming of Greztky. His match-up against Malkin was epic, but if this team is ever going to be a 1st organization it's got to stop looking for solutions from other teams.

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08-10-2012, 08:46 PM
  #198
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Let's say before a draft, the Flames were to make a pitch to get a top 5 pick, Jbo wouldn't land that alone. I don't think Bouwmeester would get Couts straight up either, but with how desperate Philly is for a dman this may be our opportunity to leverage a player like Couturier from the Flyers. What I mean is that if the Flames add to deal, then maybe we have a shot to get him.

What I would offer is Jbo, Backlund and a 1st. Value wise I think its bang on. They get their top pairing dman, a young center with upside who can play on the 3rd next year, and a draft pick that they may view as a top 15 pick in a deep draft. I would just ask for Gus to come back our way to help restock our defensive depth.

Feaster can always move vets like Stemps, Comeau etc. at the upcoming deadline to help add some more draft picks. It would suck to lose our 1st, but with all the prospects we added over the last 2 drafts, I think we will survive.

I usually don't disagree with you, but I honestly feel your are strongly overvaluing Couturier and his potential. That is a hell of an overpayment for a relatively unproven commodity in my opinion.

I, unlike you don't see that franchise potential in Couturier either.
I also believe that drafting in the top 10-15th in the draft is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be in this forum. I would say that the chances of landing an impact player in that range is around 65-70%.

Looking over the past ten drafts, these are the players I would not package with Bouwmeester to land Couturier (all selected between 10-15)

2011: Jonas Brodin, Sven Baertschi, Ryan Murphy
2010: Cam Fowler, Brandon Gormley, Jaden Schwartz, Vladimir Tarasenko
2009: Dmitri Kulikov, Ryan Ellis
2008: Cody Hodgson, Tyler Myers, Erik Karlsson
2007: Brandon Sutter, Ryan McDonagh, Kevin Shattenkirk, Lars Eller
2006: Bryan Little, Jonathan Bernier, Michael Grabner
2005: Anze Kopitar, Marc Staal, Luc Bourdon*
2004: Drew Stafford, Alexander Radulov
2003: Andrei Kostistyn, Jeff Carter, Dustin Brown, Brent Seabrook
2002: Alexander Semin

Given the recognition this draft has received for quite some time now about its top end talent and depth, I don't think it is the year to be taking that risk. On top of that we are essentially throwing in a potential 2nd line center in Backlund.

I can understand where you are coming from, but I don't think the potential payoff outweighs the potential risk.


Last edited by HighLifeMan: 08-10-2012 at 09:03 PM.
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08-10-2012, 09:38 PM
  #199
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I'm not at all surprised that I would be in the minority of the proposal I offered, but I would do that deal without hesitation. While I'll admit it is a HUGE gamble, I think its a calculated risk and well worth it. To me, its about having the foresight to make such a deal.

In the last 20+ years, this organization has failed to get a legitimate #1C because of its inability to draft one. We have also been to scared to take the necessary risks to go out and get one via trade. If a player like Couturier reaches his potential, he simply will not become available for any price. We see maybe once every 5 years a high profile centerman move via trade, such as Richards or Thorton. I think we need to take advantage of this rare opportunity and take the risk.

I watched Couturier many times this past season and I am of the opinion that he is going to be a phenomenal player. There is nothing about his game that I do not like. He has tremendous size and defensive awareness, he is a smooth skater and has excellent playmaking skills, he has a fantastic shot with great hands around the net. Given the right opportunity, I feel he will be a premier center in the NHL for quite some time and that is why I would offer so much.

I completely understand people for thinking I am offering far to much for Couturier, but in the long run I think it would be more than worth it.

But again, what the hell do I know

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08-10-2012, 09:44 PM
  #200
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@ HLM, also I do agree with you that you can find really good players in that range. So perhaps my logic is flawed, however I think Couturier is exactly what our franchise needs to be successful going forward especially when you consider the match ups we are going to have against the Oilers going forward. Couturier would be an invaluable asset in that sense with his defensive ability.

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