HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Retrospective Trade

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-10-2012, 03:49 PM
  #1
Alazais
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 388
vCash: 500
Retrospective Trade

I fear this will derail quite quickly into the usual insanity that most threads on here end up turning into, especially given the subject matter. Regardless, I am interested in how the trade(s) in total look a few years later and everyones respective opinions on it.


Boston gets:
Kaberle
Seguin
Knight
Hamilton

Toronto Gets:
Kessel
Liles
Colbourne
Percy


I think I've got the totality of this trade right. If I've gotten it wrong let me know and I will happily make any necessary corrections.

Best,
T

Alazais is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 03:53 PM
  #2
Gobo
What's Your Issue?
 
Gobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wild Rose Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,118
vCash: 500
Liles > Kaberle
Seguin = Kessel
Knight = Colbourne
Hamilton >>> Percy

Gobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 03:56 PM
  #3
Alazais
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
Liles > Kaberle
Seguin = Kessel
Knight = Colbourne
Hamilton >>> Percy
Okay. I'll bite;

How does Seguin = Kessel?

Also. I might take it the other way and say that Percy = Knight

and Hamilton >.5 Colbourne.

Alazais is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 03:58 PM
  #4
Pierre Dagenais
RIP Mr. Hockey
 
Pierre Dagenais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alazais View Post
Okay. I'll bite.

How does Seguin = Kessel?

Also. I might take it the other way and say that Percy = Knight

and Hamilton >.5 Colbourne.
Dougie Hamilton is worth 10 Joe Colbornes

Pierre Dagenais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 03:58 PM
  #5
LeafsYoungGuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Smith Falls, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Liles > Kaberle
Kessel > Seguin(now)
Knight = Colborne
Hamilton > Percy

LeafsYoungGuns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 03:59 PM
  #6
RDRR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alazais View Post
Okay. I'll bite;

How does Seguin = Kessel?

Also. I might take it the other way and say that Percy = Knight

and Hamilton >.5 Colbourne.
Kessel is better than Seguin right now. But I think Seguin would be just as valuable an asset in a trade atm.

RDRR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:04 PM
  #7
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,842
vCash: 50
Seguin vs Kessel is a wash. Kessel is better right now but seguin is younger and just as dynamic.

Apart from this trade that may end up a super win for boston if Hamilton reaches his potential, I still remember the rak and raycroft trades. Toronto shouldn't deal with Boston.

BTW, you have 2 trades in one.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:10 PM
  #8
isles31
Poster Excellont
 
isles31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,002
vCash: 500
I got a fun one: 2008 draft
Toronto-Isles
#5
for
#7
#68
2009 2nd

Turns into:
JVR (formerly Schenn at #5)
for
Josh Bailey(picked at #9)
Aaron Ness(picked at #40, acquired along with #9 from Nashville for #7)
Brenden Kichton(2011 5th rd pick from Jets for 2010 6th rd pick from rags for Jyri Niemi who picked at #72, which was acquired along with pick #102 for pick 68)
David Ullstrom(picked at #102)
Anders Nilsson(picked 2009 3rd, result of pick swapping with Columbus involving 2009 2nd gained in original trade down)
***Calvin de Haan(picked 2009 #12, 2009 2nd gained in original trade down used along with late 1st to move up)


Last edited by isles31: 08-10-2012 at 04:25 PM.
isles31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:10 PM
  #9
Alazais
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Seguin vs Kessel is a wash. Kessel is better right now but seguin is younger and just as dynamic.

Apart from this trade that may end up a super win for boston if Hamilton reaches his potential, I still remember the rak and raycroft trades. Toronto shouldn't deal with Boston.

BTW, you have 2 trades in one.
I am aware. That is the purpose of this thread. Note: I used the word totality when referencing the trade(s).

Alazais is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:10 PM
  #10
Community
Former TMLKesselftw
 
Community's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Darkest Timeline
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,577
vCash: 50
Knew it would be this before I even looked at it, haha...

One thing to consider is, if we are judging just the players and not whether it "payed off" for either team (Boston winning the cup).... because if it's just the players, Kaberle didn't do so well in Boston and then left for nothing

Community is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:12 PM
  #11
pooleboy
#buildthrewthedraft
 
pooleboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,650
vCash: 500
this is going to be fun :S

pooleboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:13 PM
  #12
Kamal007
God Level
 
Kamal007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,306
vCash: 50
We all know boston won, lets move on.

Kamal007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:13 PM
  #13
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
I got a fun one: 2008 draft
Toronto-Isles
#5
for
#7
#68
2009 2nd

Turns into:
JVR
for
Josh Bailey
Aaron Ness
Brenden Kichton
David Ullstrom
Anders Nilsson
The Isles drafted 5 players with 3 picks?

To the OP, too early to tell. Seguin, Knight, and Hamilton have tons of potential, so Boston could win huge, but if, say, two of them flop, Toronto wins.

Top 6 Spaling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:13 PM
  #14
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,125
vCash: 50
Boston wins

sully1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:14 PM
  #15
Community
Former TMLKesselftw
 
Community's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Darkest Timeline
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,577
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Seguin vs Kessel is a wash. Kessel is better right now but seguin is younger and just as dynamic.

Apart from this trade that may end up a super win for boston if Hamilton reaches his potential, I still remember the rak and raycroft trades. Toronto shouldn't deal with Boston.

BTW, you have 2 trades in one.
There are quite a few things you can choose as to why Seguin will be better... But this one isn't true IMO

Seguin is better defensively, more physical, and looks like he will develop into a Center (more important position)... Those are the only things I think Seguin is currently better at...

Community is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:20 PM
  #16
BlueBaron
Registered User
 
BlueBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alazais View Post
I am aware. That is the purpose of this thread. Note: I used the word totality when referencing the trade(s).
My guess is the real purpose is to create a pointless fight between fan bases.

BlueBaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:24 PM
  #17
isles31
Poster Excellont
 
isles31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
The Isles drafted 5 players with 3 picks?

To the OP, too early to tell. Seguin, Knight, and Hamilton have tons of potential, so Boston could win huge, but if, say, two of them flop, Toronto wins.
i figured itd get a response like that...i was editing it whilst you replied. My bad

isles31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:25 PM
  #18
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,842
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMLKesselftw View Post
There are quite a few things you can choose as to why Seguin will be better... But this one isn't true IMO

Seguin is better defensively, more physical, and looks like he will develop into a Center (more important position)... Those are the only things I think Seguin is currently better at...
You're kidding? I'm a habs fan and I like Toronto way more than Boston but...Seguin is a pretty talented guy. His speed is not as good as kessels. Kessel has a superior shot as well. However, the reality is although weaker in certain areas you can't make it sound as if Seguin's shot or skating are sub par. They are top notch as well. I mean, when you round out seguin's entire game I think he's just as dynamic. I never said as dynamic offensively, i'm talking the total package here.

Seguin has room to grow but let's not kid ourselves here, in his second year he surpassed kessel's career high prior to this season. Kessel had a solid year and broke out as a true elite force but we can't dismiss seguin's production. Seguin may end up a 35-35 guy as soon as next year. When we look at him being 'dynamic' his superior defensive ability, his better odds to end up a versatile (C/W) player in the NHL and other factors add to his range of talents.

By no means am I saying Seguin>Kessel or anything. I'm saying they are pretty much equals in total. I wouldn't be surprised if seguin even outproduces kessel as soon as next year but that's a different story. As a habs fan I'd personally take seguin as we need a center but a team like pittsburgh or someone else would take kessel. It's really a wash for me.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:33 PM
  #19
indigobuffalo
Portage and Main
 
indigobuffalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,821
vCash: 500
I'm not sure if we want to get into moot issues, but technically you could include the trade Burke HAD to make in order to get the assets NEEDED to threaten an offer sheet on Kessel and force Chiarelli to make a trade.

Maybe it looks like this instead:


Phil Kessel
Joe Colborne
John-Michael Liles
Tyler Biggs (ANA 1st 2011)
Wayne Primeau
Mikhail Grabovski


Tyler Seguin (TOR 1st 2010)
Jared Knight (TOR 2nd 2010)
Dougie Hamilton (TOR 1st 2011)
Tomas Kaberle


John Gibson (TOR 2nd 2011)
Rickard Rakell (BOS 1st 2011)


Brandon Saad (CGY 2nd 2011)
Michael Paliotta (TOR 3rd 2011)


Anton Stralman
Colin Stuart
Matth DeBlouw (TOR 7th 2012)


Greg Pateryn

Everything not under the Toronto Banner is technically an asset Toronto gave up to acquire the assets under the Toronto banner.

While it's too early to tell on the 2011 and 2012 draft picks, from what I hear, the Chicago fans really like Brandon Saad, so overall Toronto got some okay stuff, but it's still open for debate in this entire trade scheme, although I guess really we should look at this in 20 years to really know for sure. For what it's worth, I really like the Kessel trade, and honestly believe he is the best player in the entire group, although Seguin certainly looks like the closest behind.

I was also going to point out that Kessel and Seguin are very close in age, so arguing that Seguin is AS GOOD AS Kessel based on Seguin being younger is irrelevant. He's not as good right now. Period.


Last edited by indigobuffalo: 08-10-2012 at 04:56 PM.
indigobuffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:43 PM
  #20
Haatley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,832
vCash: 681
Boston wins huge. seguin already better all around than kessel

Haatley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:52 PM
  #21
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Country: Tibet
Posts: 17,898
vCash: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
I got a fun one: 2008 draft
Toronto-Isles
#5
for
#7
#68
2009 2nd

Turns into:
JVR (formerly Schenn at #5)
for
Josh Bailey(picked at #9)
Aaron Ness(picked at #40, acquired along with #9 from Nashville for #7)
Brenden Kichton(2011 5th rd pick from Jets for 2010 6th rd pick from rags for Jyri Niemi who picked at #72, which was acquired along with pick #102 for pick 68)
David Ullstrom(picked at #102)
Anders Nilsson(picked 2009 3rd, result of pick swapping with Columbus involving 2009 2nd gained in original trade down)
***Calvin de Haan(picked 2009 #12, 2009 2nd gained in original trade down used along with late 1st to move up)
The Isles really shouldn't trade with anyone.

LatvianTwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:59 PM
  #22
indigobuffalo
Portage and Main
 
indigobuffalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Boston wins huge. seguin already better all around than kessel
Well, since this is clearly observable fact... I'm going to rebuttle with the rather obvious: troll.

indigobuffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 04:59 PM
  #23
isles31
Poster Excellont
 
isles31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
The Isles really shouldn't trade with anyone.
why is that again? Nilsson is the future starting goalie, Ullstrom was solid in his first nhl action last yr, Kichton is a very promising D prospect, Ness is skilled and would be a top 4 is he was 5 inches taller, and Bailey is a 21 yr old who was rushed and found a home on the wing at the end of last yr. All that for either an underperforming JVR or Schenn? Every day

isles31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 05:02 PM
  #24
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,842
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
....
I was also going to point out that Kessel and Seguin are very close in age, so arguing that Seguin is AS GOOD AS Kessel based on Seguin being younger is irrelevant. He's not as good right now. Period.
Kessel is 24, turning 25 this year. Seguin is 20, turning 21 next year. How is this 'very close'? Kessel has 6 years of NHL experience, Seguin has 2. Context means something. Youth means very little without potential, but if we judge them at same age seguin had 67 points and kessel had 37. I'm not even pointing that out though. I was pointing out that seguin has room to grow to match kessel's production. Seguin will be as good as kessel no question.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 05:03 PM
  #25
indigobuffalo
Portage and Main
 
indigobuffalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Kessel is 24, turning 25 this year. Seguin is 20, turning 21 next year. How is this 'very close'? Kessel has 6 years of NHL experience, Seguin has 2. Context means something. Youth means very little without potential, but if we judge them at same age seguin had 67 points and kessel had 37. I'm not even pointing that out though. I was pointing out that seguin has room to grow to match kessel's production. Seguin will be as good as kessel no question.
Both players are still improving and neither has reached the limit of their potential.

Seguin doesn't have an 82-point season and plays on a more talented team and benefits from sheltered minutes.

indigobuffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.