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Old
08-10-2012, 02:15 PM
  #526
Fel 96
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Disappointed the League is talking about a lockout before we even give our @NHLPA counterproposal. #theplayers
http://twitter.com/BrandonPrust8/sta...03609229070336
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Still training hard for the season ahead. Hope Gary Bettman wasn't serious about a lockout. #theplayers @nhlpa
http://twitter.com/MCammalleri13/sta...04580013322240

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08-10-2012, 03:06 PM
  #527
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And how long have they had to make a counter-proposal? Pretty long.

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08-10-2012, 03:38 PM
  #528
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The @NHL says they won’t play past Sept 15th under current deal. Apparently they don’t like the deal they designed. #CBA #nhlpa2012
http://twitter.com/HLundqvist30/stat...25459610955776

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Old
08-10-2012, 04:27 PM
  #529
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I'd love to see some NHL player just tweet a really simple yet powerful message. . . .

"**** Bettman"

They'd get in trouble but that would be absolutely hilarious.

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08-10-2012, 04:35 PM
  #530
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I hate to be a Debbie Downer, and I'm not a huge fan of Mark Spector, but if you'd like to start the weekend off on the wrong foot, here's some reading for you: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...ome_cba_myths/

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08-10-2012, 04:44 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
I'd love to see some NHL player just tweet a really simple yet powerful message. . . .

"**** Bettman"

They'd get in trouble but that would be absolutely hilarious.
They would probably see an insane spike in their Twitter followers too.

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08-10-2012, 04:46 PM
  #532
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Did anyone else read this as "**** Batman?"

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Old
08-10-2012, 04:50 PM
  #533
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No...

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Old
08-10-2012, 05:20 PM
  #534
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Why are people pissed at Bettman, again?

He's a mouthpiece.

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08-10-2012, 06:51 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
Why are people pissed at Bettman, again?

He's a mouthpiece.
Lets be honest, he's got more to do with this than just being a messenger. How much is certainly open to debate, but he's not just a figurehead, he has at least some degree of input.

On top of that, he's a completely weaselly ******.

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08-10-2012, 07:06 PM
  #536
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And has also done an incredible job growing the league. Other than the lockouts, hes done a very good job.

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08-10-2012, 07:41 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Victorious Secret View Post
And has also done an incredible job growing the league. Other than the lockouts, hes done a very good job.
And yet he's the face and voice of the group that says that it's not nearly enough.

I really think he gets too much credit, overall, positive AND negative. But he's not helping a really negative reputation from the fans, putting out the story he did to TSN this week.

Yes, the game has grown, a LOT. Yes, he just comes off as a total jerk. No, he doesn't do himself ANY favors.

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08-10-2012, 07:59 PM
  #538
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Why can't the players and owners just go 50/50 on the revenues? Seems like a simple solution.

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Old
08-10-2012, 08:43 PM
  #539
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Why can't the players and owners just go 50/50 on the revenues? Seems like a simple solution.
Because they both think they deserve more than half...

And the players have zero reason to think that ANY rollback in salary is reasonable, when the league as a whole is making record profits each year.

I think pro athletes are shockingly overpaid in this country, but I think that most of the owners are completely insane if they think cutting a guaranteed contract by 24% overnight isn't going to result in a lockout... Obviously I understand that it was likely a lowball to get the ball rolling, but if I were Fehr, that initial offer would be a downright insult.

The longer this goes on, the more and more I'm mentally preparing myself for a protracted lockout.

The owners are nuts, the players are pissed at all the BS the league won't look into (consistent discipline, clearly defined rules, a real effort to curb deliberate injury, a solution to what to do with Phoenix, etc). On top of that, it just seems completely moronic to do away with an agreement that has seen the league become what it has.

Yeah, things need tweaking. Put a limit on contract length, fine. Clearer language on cap circumvention. Put a neutral party in charge of suspensions and discipline. Personally, I don't think a rollback is an unreasonable request, but 24% is a joke.....

I dunno. Maybe I'm just getting myself wound up, but I don't see either side giving in. Owners think they've got nothing to lose, and players worry that they're going to lose everything.

Edit: My dad did large scale contract negotiation (labor unions) for better than a decade. He always said: "Power is a pendulum. If it swings too far to one side, nothing gets done, everyone gets bitter and everyone ends up losing... It's just a matter of losing now, or losing a few years from now."


Last edited by Vashanesh: 08-10-2012 at 08:47 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old
08-10-2012, 09:22 PM
  #540
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I don't understand how employees can earn more than the employer. That I won't understand. If this were any other country the players would be lucky to get 50/50. They should just lock the percentage in so they don't have to keep debating this every potential lockout.

I am definitely for limited contract lengths, third party disciplinary action, and clearer language(i.e. Schultz and co. ********).

If possible, I'd like to see the shootout lengthened to 5 shooters. I just don't think 3 is enough at the moment. Sometimes you only see 4 shooters anyways and that doesn't last more than a couple minutes. The trapezoid removed and realignment would be nice, too.

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Old
08-10-2012, 09:40 PM
  #541
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Quote:
@davedecarvalho let me know how you feel when your boss tells you to take a 22% pay cut
http://twitter.com/Logancouture/stat...10857251020802

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Old
08-10-2012, 09:40 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Victorious Secret;53469591[B
]I don't understand how employees can earn more than the employer. That I won't understand. If this were any other country the players would be lucky to get 50/50. They should just lock the percentage in so they don't have to keep debating this every potential lockout.[/B]

I am definitely for limited contract lengths, third party disciplinary action, and clearer language(i.e. Schultz and co. ********).

If possible, I'd like to see the shootout lengthened to 5 shooters. I just don't think 3 is enough at the moment. Sometimes you only see 4 shooters anyways and that doesn't last more than a couple minutes. The trapezoid removed and realignment would be nice, too.
Because pro sports are, without a doubt, the biggest business that's reliant on the smallest group of employees relative to their income.

Can you name a fortune 500 company that would go under if 15 of their employees were permanently lost tomorrow...? Because a strong argument could be made for a hockey team having a hell of a time staying afloat if that happened to them.

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08-10-2012, 09:48 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
That'd be illegal. I can't get paid below minimum wage.

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Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
Because pro sports are, without a doubt, the biggest business that's reliant on the smallest group of employees relative to their income.

Can you name a fortune 500 company that would go under if 15 of their employees were permanently lost tomorrow...? Because a strong argument could be made for a hockey team having a hell of a time staying afloat if that happened to them.
If Obama was dead then a good portion of American car dealers would have been done. if this were 2008

Considering the owner pays the bills and bought the team in the first place, the players percentage shouldn't keep rising and make above the owner. If they kept rising at the same pace it'd almost nix any owner's profit soon enough.

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Old
08-10-2012, 10:02 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Victorious Secret View Post
That'd be illegal. I can't get paid below minimum wage.



If Obama was dead then a good portion of American car dealers would have been done. if this were 2008

Considering the owner pays the bills and bought the team in the first place, the players percentage shouldn't keep rising and make above the owner. If they kept rising at the same pace it'd almost nix any owner's profit soon enough.
That's an extreme example. I'm talking any random 15 people from a fortune 500 company...

I'm not saying that nothing should change, but saying that players should lose a quarter of their guaranteed contract is ridiculous. Players deserve a much bigger chunk of the pie than any other worker, because top end athletes are literally one in millions rare.

Wouldn't you agree that Bill Gates is worth an astronomical amount because of his extremely shrewd business moves, well above-average intellect, etc...? Another extreme example, clearly, but I'm hoping you get my point.

Wouldn't you also agree that a world-class athlete shouldn't have to lose a quarter of their promised pay overnight, just to make sure that their owners can become richer than they already are? Especially when the owners are making provably record profits?

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Old
08-10-2012, 10:12 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
That's an extreme example. I'm talking any random 15 people from a fortune 500 company...

I'm not saying that nothing should change, but saying that players should lose a quarter of their guaranteed contract is ridiculous. Players deserve a much bigger chunk of the pie than any other worker, because top end athletes are literally one in millions rare.

Wouldn't you agree that Bill Gates is worth an astronomical amount because of his extremely shrewd business moves, well above-average intellect, etc...? Another extreme example, clearly, but I'm hoping you get my point.

Wouldn't you also agree that a world-class athlete shouldn't have to lose a quarter of their promised pay overnight, just to make sure that their owners can become richer than they already are? Especially when the owners are making provably record profits?
I definitely get your point. I'm not disagreeing with it.

If they go to a 50/50 split how much would salaries be scaled back?

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08-10-2012, 10:18 PM
  #546
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Right now the players have the biggest share, the owners want the biggest share, I think it will end up close to 50/50.

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08-10-2012, 10:21 PM
  #547
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Right now the players have the biggest share, the owners want the biggest share, I think it will end up close to 50/50.
I think so, too. When will the NHLPA have its counter-offer ready? It has been 28 days since the initial offer. Looks more like stalling rather than negotiating.

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08-10-2012, 10:21 PM
  #548
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I definitely get your point. I'm not disagreeing with it.

If they go to a 50/50 split how much would salaries be scaled back?
The players get 57% of total revenue now, owners want it to be 43%.

That doesn't add up to 24%, of course, but owners also want to "redefine hockey-related revenue", which likely just means they're pocketing more as pure profit.

Ugh, I need to get some sleep.

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Old
08-10-2012, 11:47 PM
  #549
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Players that take/took bad team photos

That thread screams James Sheppard.

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08-11-2012, 01:07 AM
  #550
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We're gunna have a lockout, owners can't afford the current split....

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