HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Detroit Red Wings Prospect #7

View Poll Results: Who is #7?
Adam Almqvist 0 0%
Joakim Andersson 0 0%
Martin Frk 4 3.88%
Nick Jensen 1 0.97%
Alexei Marchenko 2 1.94%
Petr Mrázek 16 15.53%
Xavier Ouellet 33 32.04%
Teemu Pulkkinen 37 35.92%
Ryan Sproul 10 9.71%
Marek Tvrdoň 0 0%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-10-2012, 12:40 PM
  #51
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Time for a runoff
God Damn Pulkkinen fans are slowing us down

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 01:28 PM
  #52
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,269
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
You clearly lean very heavily toward potential and upside and give little credit to NHL-readiness or how a player projects. Which is fine, but my approach to prospects is more balanced, so the "definites" you use above are not definites for me.

Andersson's upside is not high, but he is NHL-ready and good enough to be a 4th-line center for Detroit. That has value. And Babcock loves him, so he'll likely get good opportunities. Because of those factors, he should be in the top-10 in my book.

As for Pulkkinen, he's really over-rated around here. Given his size, his skating is poor by NHL standards. That's not bashing or a weak argument, that is reality. It will be exposed at the NHL level. His shot is over-rated as well, mostly because it's inaccurate. At best, he's a PP specialist. A poor man's Jiri Hudler.
I know all about Andersson, you dont need to sell me on the babcock thing, i have already heard it all. I like the kid, don't get me wrong but you cant go simply based on little talent and high on NHL readiness. If that's the case then Mursak, if he was eligible, would still be a top 10 guy then and his skillset was not even comparable.

I think many of you are letting a lot of poor postings get to your head. Pulkkinen's skating might not have a WOW factor but its definitely not that bad. Hudler's skating isnt wowing anyone but it definitely didnt keep him from dominating, his head and laziness did. Pulkkinen has more drive IMHO and a wayyyyy better shot then any prospect in our system over the last who knows how many years. Him and HTD take those cards. Also, size arguments really get to me because they don't really mean much. Look at a lot of the kids emerging out there, if you got the head and the skills, youll make it. If Pulks can develop into a player that notches 25-30 goals, but sees limited 5 on 5 time at times, i definitely am not one to complain. For all we know, the kid could take off this year and gain a notch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Andersson is as NHL-ready as he's going to get.

Problem is, he's only ready to play for the Isles or the Jets or the Jackets. He just doesn't bring anything new to the mix for the Wings.
Problem is, Holland got too many sub-par ****** in our system ahead of him. I would much rather see him this year then Miller, Abby, Eaves (if hes back) or Samuelsson. Just to see what he can do. ****, i wouldnt even mind if you had a 4th line of him, Emmerton and Tootoo just to see what **** could happen. I really am upset we aren't letting Emmerton get more time. He wont bring a ton to the table but he could develop a niche for us. You cant even get a good feel for him based on 5 minutes a night.

Howard35 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 02:23 PM
  #53
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 19,404
vCash: 500
Sorry for this but have noticed him taking a hit, I didn't vote for him, not going to for a couple more rounds. I don't really honestly know what to make of him but all I can say is I have watched him in Grand Rapids and he improved a ton this year. Andersson is a better player, improved his speed and pretty much all aspects of his offensive ability. What he needs now is a little more physicality in my opinion, but he is close and we don't know what we have which leads me to the following.




Something that really hurts Andersson's case around here and this for me falls right at the feet of Babcock not Holland. For Babcock loving the guy and saying the right things about him, he sure doesn't follow it up with that love in his actual role. When he comes up, they don't use him on the PK. If he starts doing this with Sheahan too, I might drive to Joe Louis and attempt to strangle him through that scowl or **** eating grin he has every post game. That is their roles, that is what they are supposed to be good at, that is what a lot of them have excelled at to get the chance to begin with.

I don't care if it takes Holland sitting down with him before the callup and hammering this out. My belief is that Babcock has free reign to a certain extent, some guys he is told no because of options, but he makes the calls on ice time and things of that nature. You want to run around pointing the fingers at Holland all off-season fine, well have Babcock show something and bench a favorite and I don't mean Franzen. I would love to see him park Cleary, Abdelkader or Bert (more effective than a lot of you think) down the bench or in the press box. Heck really send a message in some of those turd games like Montreal and Long Island last year play the big guys that aren't trying hard, make them work embarrass them into the effort you desire.

I don't know what is going on in the Holland and Babcock marriage, but some back and forth in the media has arrived. They need to be on the same page, do we want this guy or that and what they hell are we going to do with him? I think that is a simple expectation of a GM and coach and right now I don't think that is what is happening.

Andersson is not a garbage player that is only fit for the fourth line on the Islanders, he is a decent sized fourth line center or winger that is good at faceoffs and PKs. Problem is we don't see him really trusted to do either whenever he is here. We have relied on veterans so long sometimes I think we have forgot that it is okay every once in a while to give rookies a chance to make mistakes or figure things out on the job. It might not be the best recipe for everyone but this is Andersson last year before a contract decision you need to find out if he can PK at the NHL level as it would appear he can from the AHL performances and we could use the help there, certainly Emmerton isn't PKing.


The Zetterberg Era is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 03:15 PM
  #54
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,269
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
well when he gets called up, hes in a 4th line position and we don't need him to play the PK. you want him to get his feet wet and detroit is an organization that doesnt always toss kids into the special teams roles unless they are the top-end kids like nyquist, tatar, ect..

example, if we call up sheahan this year and we don't have a ton of injuries to the bottom 6 and most of the pkers are around, i dont see him playing the pk much, if at all. if jurco gets a call up for ***** and gigs and someone like hank, pavs or franzen are out, i could see him getting a little pp time to see what he can do.. just my POV.

Howard35 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 06:15 PM
  #55
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 19,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
well when he gets called up, hes in a 4th line position and we don't need him to play the PK. you want him to get his feet wet and detroit is an organization that doesnt always toss kids into the special teams roles unless they are the top-end kids like nyquist, tatar, ect..

example, if we call up sheahan this year and we don't have a ton of injuries to the bottom 6 and most of the pkers are around, i dont see him playing the pk much, if at all. if jurco gets a call up for ***** and gigs and someone like hank, pavs or franzen are out, i could see him getting a little pp time to see what he can do.. just my POV.
So if I am following correctly it is okay to toss kids into skill roles on the PP right out of the gate. However, guys that specialize in PK and will play that role for most of their career should wait. Sheahan and Andersson are already better PK guys than some of our options, when they are up they should be looked at in those roles. I could not disagree more, if they fail it sends them back down, but at least we know.

The Zetterberg Era is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 08:43 PM
  #56
ZetterBurger
Registered User
 
ZetterBurger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 6,211
vCash: 500
Pulkkinen still has arguably the highest potential in our prospect pool. Fisher was raving about his fitness and ability. His skill is top end. The only real knock on him is size and speed. His skating as a whole is not bad or below average. Straight, breakaway speed is great and always a plus, but in Detroit's puck possession style it's a methodical attack where skill and IQ trumps speed every time.

I would Ouellet next so it's not a big deal but have a lot of us forgotten what Teemu can do and has the potential to do?

ZetterBurger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 08:47 PM
  #57
ZetterBurger
Registered User
 
ZetterBurger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 6,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
well when he gets called up, hes in a 4th line position and we don't need him to play the PK. you want him to get his feet wet and detroit is an organization that doesnt always toss kids into the special teams roles unless they are the top-end kids like nyquist, tatar, ect..

example, if we call up sheahan this year and we don't have a ton of injuries to the bottom 6 and most of the pkers are around, i dont see him playing the pk much, if at all. if jurco gets a call up for ***** and gigs and someone like hank, pavs or franzen are out, i could see him getting a little pp time to see what he can do.. just my POV.
If Sheahan gets a call it will be because a center went down or a player like Bertuzzi or Cleary are down and Andersson is already up, since Babs will demand a large physical player. Our center depth chart should look like this for the Wings this year, IMO.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg
Filppula
Helm
Emmerton
Andersson
Sheahan

That is 5 guys who can play in the NHL, 3 top six and 3 bottom six. Sheahan should be able to play a 4th line role in spurts this year whether it's on the wing or in the middle. Andersson and Tatar have to be the 1st players called up depending on what position or skill set is needed.

ZetterBurger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 09:16 PM
  #58
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,511
vCash: 500
Let's get this run-off started so I can cast my first vote for Xavier Ouellet.

Harnessed in Slums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 09:31 PM
  #59
Syckle78
Registered User
 
Syckle78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Redford, MI
Country: Belgium
Posts: 5,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Let's get this run-off started so I can cast my first vote for Xavier Ouellet.
Seconded.

Syckle78 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 09:41 PM
  #60
FabricDetails
Registered User
 
FabricDetails's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,056
vCash: 500
Can a prospect be the winner by only one vote or does it have to be more significant than that?

FabricDetails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 11:50 PM
  #61
kuick
Tatar Sauce
 
kuick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids
Country: United States
Posts: 2,715
vCash: 500
I voted for Sproul but if I knew he would be this far out of the running, XO was my pick.

kuick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2012, 11:51 PM
  #62
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,269
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
If Sheahan gets a call it will be because a center went down or a player like Bertuzzi or Cleary are down and Andersson is already up, since Babs will demand a large physical player. Our center depth chart should look like this for the Wings this year, IMO.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg
Filppula
Helm
Emmerton
Andersson
Sheahan

That is 5 guys who can play in the NHL, 3 top six and 3 bottom six. Sheahan should be able to play a 4th line role in spurts this year whether it's on the wing or in the middle. Andersson and Tatar have to be the 1st players called up depending on what position or skill set is needed.
Not unless they test him at wing like they do every other center.

I do agree those two should be called up first but he also was up at one point at the end of the season over tatar and andersson. wings show they like to juggle their callups.

Howard35 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 12:47 AM
  #63
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 19,404
vCash: 500
Should point out it doesn't look like I will be around tomorrow to fire up Prospect thread #8 , it looks like Louis-Marc Aubry is the add at this point. Hopefully one of the Mods or one of you can help out.

I have made my feelings clear on Pulkkinen this high, but if he wins by one vote he wins by one vote as far as I am concerned that is the point of a vote.

The Zetterberg Era is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 03:11 AM
  #64
ZetterBurger
Registered User
 
ZetterBurger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 6,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Not unless they test him at wing like they do every other center.

I do agree those two should be called up first but he also was up at one point at the end of the season over tatar and andersson. wings show they like to juggle their callups.
I agree which is why I mentioned if Bert or Cleary go down. I just have a feeling that if he gets called up it will be to play center or to get a bigger body in the game. Would like to see him called up to play the Blues and Preds a lot this year.

ZetterBurger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 03:41 AM
  #65
Soft Rock Renegade
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Should point out it doesn't look like I will be around tomorrow to fire up Prospect thread #8 , it looks like Louis-Marc Aubry is the add at this point. Hopefully one of the Mods or one of you can help out.

I have made my feelings clear on Pulkkinen this high, but if he wins by one vote he wins by one vote as far as I am concerned that is the point of a vote.
would prefer another run-off before we start #8. pretty sure the non-oullet votes will but XO over the top. for #8 it may be another runoff of pulks vs. sproul

Soft Rock Renegade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 01:08 PM
  #66
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatter View Post
would prefer another run-off before we start #8. pretty sure the non-oullet votes will but XO over the top. for #8 it may be another runoff of pulks vs. sproul
If we are going to have a run off for every close vote why don't we just have only 2 options up there?

The only reason this vote was even as close as it appears now is because there are some people voting strategically to try and push Pulkkinen down the list.

FlashyG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 01:36 PM
  #67
Anchor Town
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Should point out it doesn't look like I will be around tomorrow to fire up Prospect thread #8 , it looks like Louis-Marc Aubry is the add at this point. Hopefully one of the Mods or one of you can help out.

I have made my feelings clear on Pulkkinen this high, but if he wins by one vote he wins by one vote as far as I am concerned that is the point of a vote.
Run off, it's clear that most of the non Ouellet/Pulkkinen voters would vote Ouellet over Pulkkinen if it were just those two. It's close enough, and people want to do it, let's have a run off

Anchor Town is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 01:37 PM
  #68
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
The only reason this vote was even as close as it appears now is because there are some people voting strategically to try and push Pulkkinen down the list.
Agreed completely.

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 01:42 PM
  #69
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
Run off, it's clear that most of the non Ouellet/Pulkkinen voters would vote Ouellet over Pulkkinen if it were just those two. It's close enough, and people want to do it, let's have a run off
It doesn't really matter if they would vote Ouellet over Pulkkinen in a one on one run off. If they felt Ouellet was the next best prospect they should have voted for him in the first place.

A run off only makes sense in the case of a tie, otherwise we should make every vote a run off between just 2 players.

FlashyG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 02:15 PM
  #70
ZetterBurger
Registered User
 
ZetterBurger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 6,211
vCash: 500
Why would we have a runoff when the vote is not a tie? Pulkks has more votes now onto the next prospect...

ZetterBurger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 03:14 PM
  #71
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,511
vCash: 500
I honestly don't care one way or the other. I didn't vote for either guy here but if it was a vote strictly between Pulkkinen and Ouellet I would vote for Ouellet. The voting is very close and it's summer with absolutely nothing going on so there shouldn't be any problem with doing a runoff anytime a guy doesn't win by a big margin. Our first couple votes were massive landslides, now it is getting to the point where only a handful of votes separate the top two vote getters. I think it would be fun to do runoffs whenever the vote is so close but I won't get upset or anything if 1-9 more votes is enough for a guy to claim the next spot in the poll.

Like I said I can deal with whatever we decide to do. I don't think Pulkkinen should be ranked in the top 10 but that's just my opinion and I can accept the majority decision if we decide to rank Pulkkinen as the #7 prospect.

Harnessed in Slums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 04:13 PM
  #72
Anchor Town
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,458
vCash: 500
If we don't do a runoff then we aren't really creating a ranking based on everyones opinions. It's apparent that a third of the board ranks Pulkkinen in the 6 range and another third around the 10 range with the other third falling somewhere in between. Just because Pulkkinen has some devote followers doesn't mean that he should be ranked higher when the average of the board would have him around #8.

The best way to rank the prospects would be to have everyone submit their top 20 and average them out. Would be incredibly simple to do in excel

Anchor Town is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 04:14 PM
  #73
icKx
Registered User
 
icKx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 2,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
A run off only makes sense in the case of a tie, otherwise we should make every vote a run off between just 2 players.
No, it doesn't have to be black-and-white.

It's perfectly reasonable to set a threshold that has to be met i.e. win the popular vote by a margin of 5% or a runoff is automatically triggered.

icKx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 04:18 PM
  #74
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 19,404
vCash: 500
Got back in time to do 8, there is not a runoff as it stands now, that is for a tie. If you guys don't like it don't waste your vote on Sproul when it was clearly a heads up between Ouellet and Pulkkinen. This wasn't the first round we have had a feeling which guys were contenders for a while. I might already be voting Tvrdon right now, it would serve no purpose no matter how high I am on him.

In any event Ouellet has 40 minutes to make up four votes or the guy with the ugly hunched over stride that hits the glass more often than the net is going to be our #7 prospect.

I don't think it is fair to do a runoff every time people disagree with a tight selection, lets put it this way if Ouellet was leading narrowly like he was for the first 24 hours this isn't popping up in a big way.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 08-11-2012 at 04:25 PM.
The Zetterberg Era is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 04:31 PM
  #75
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 19,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
If we don't do a runoff then we aren't really creating a ranking based on everyones opinions. It's apparent that a third of the board ranks Pulkkinen in the 6 range and another third around the 10 range with the other third falling somewhere in between. Just because Pulkkinen has some devote followers doesn't mean that he should be ranked higher when the average of the board would have him around #8.

The best way to rank the prospects would be to have everyone submit their top 20 and average them out. Would be incredibly simple to do in excel
Well some voted him in the every round and he has picked up steam, with that kind of format I could actually see him landing extremely high, he would get 20 points from a couple people, 19 from a couple and then a bunch in the 3-5 range if I have been watching the votes correctly. A guy like Tatar will just always get a bunch of 4-5 votes, my prediction even with a couple of us ranking outside of the top 10 he would still be ranked pretty high in this kind of format because his loyal followers would deliver a bunch of high value points to be averaged, he would have the greatest range of answers in my opinion 1-12 depending on who gave you the list.

The Zetterberg Era is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.