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It's August -- Why is Abdelkader Still Unsigned? (Signed to 4-yr deal, $1.7M per)

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Old
08-11-2012, 09:22 AM
  #26
fimoknete
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red wings having aprox 15 player on the roster, on the bench and in the ahl what can play bottom 6 on a equal level. and detroit doesnt look very interested in having a good bottom 6 team either. so why do we need to sign him? just let him go playing on some farm team and use somebody else. it just doesnt matter at the moment.

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08-11-2012, 09:35 AM
  #27
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so glad we wasted a semi-high second rounder on him.

#logical

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Old
08-11-2012, 09:36 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimoknete View Post
red wings having aprox 15 player on the roster, on the bench and in the ahl what can play bottom 6 on a equal level. and detroit doesnt look very interested in having a good bottom 6 team either. so why do we need to sign him? just let him go playing on some farm team and use somebody else. it just doesnt matter at the moment.
There's no sense in this comment and some other comments here which somehow dislike Abdelkader. Abdelkader is an important asset for the Red Wings, period. I just can't believe what I'm reading here.

Team management wants to build this team harder to play against and build a physical 4th line. Signing Tootoo and letting Abdelkader walk DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE in the old team.

For 100% sure we are keeping both and having both in the team, maybe in the same bang-bang -line. Keeping both ADDS physicality, when we have two hitters and guys available to be pests and fight.

For christ sake, everybody has been crying us to be more physical all these years, and then some of you want the most physical player from the old team out. People are just losing their mind. Other option is that you are just trolling and I swallowed the bait.

There's a reason he is not signed yet. We don't know what the reason is. Maybe they are waiting the new CBA, or they want to keep a roster spot open because of a possible trade. They have 49 current contracts right now, 1 off from that 50 contract limit.

But I guarantee, the reason is not that we are going to let him walk. That's the stupidest proposal I could ever imagine.

Abdelkader is going to get a 1.6 million contract, just like Gregory Campbell. Book it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Maybe so. I still wouldn't say Gator is worth twice Miller's cap hit though.
Wait one year and people are bashing Miller out just like Abdelkader now, because biggest morons are suggesting he is wanting a 2 million extension. He looks better only for next season, and the cap figure doesn't matter a damn thing in our current cap situation.

Of course, Miller is cheap and effective, but that doesn't make Abdelkader a worse player any way. Other player is just getting his bigger paycheck one year earlier.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...rom-s-decision

EDIT:

Quote:
Abdelkader update (three days ago)

Restricted free-agent forward Justin Abdelkader remains the lone unsigned Wings player.

Abdelkader declined an opportunity for arbitration in July and the two sides continue to plug away on a new contract.

Holland said a new deal will get done ultimately.

Abdelkader, 25, had eight goals and 14 assists with 62 penalty minutes last season in 81 games.


Last edited by Henkka: 08-11-2012 at 09:47 AM.
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08-11-2012, 09:46 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Maybe so. I still wouldn't say Gator is worth twice Miller's cap hit though.
I think it's just the cost of signing nearly anyone this summer. Helm got a bit more than I would have expected coming into this summer, as have most players in one form or another (either $$$ or term).

At this point, I think it might be more about maintaining a structure rather than hitting on an actual number. Is Abdelkader worth as much as Helm? Obviously not. But is he worth more than Miller? I think so. If/when we sign him, I'm expecting somewhere around $1.6m at this point. Especially after we just signed Tootoo to $1.9m.

Now, I also think the Wings might be balking at paying that much -especially with Emmerton, Andersson and Sheahan all likely capable of stepping in and centering that fourth line - and are maybe dangling Gator in trades for a D. Not signing him might make him more valuable to other teams who will want to work out their own contracts with him.

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08-11-2012, 09:56 AM
  #30
WorkingOvertime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
There's no sense in this comment and some other comments here which somehow dislike Abdelkader. Abdelkader is an important asset for the Red Wings, period. I just can't believe what I'm reading here.

Team management wants to build this team harder to play against and build a physical 4th line. Signing Tootoo and letting Abdelkader walk DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE in the old team.

For 100% sure we are keeping both and having both in the team, maybe in the same bang-bang -line. Keeping both ADDS physicality, when we have two hitters and guys available to be pests and fight.

For christ sake, everybody has been crying us to be more physical all these years, and then some of you want the most physical player from the old team out. People are just losing their mind. Other option is that you are just trolling and I swallowed the bait.

There's a reason he is not signed yet. We don't know what the reason is. Maybe they are waiting the new CBA, or they want to keep a roster spot open because of a possible trade. They have 49 current contracts right now, 1 off from that 50 contract limit.

But I guarantee, the reason is not that we are going to let him walk. That's the stupidest proposal I could ever imagine.

Abdelkader is going to get a 1.6 million contract, just like Gregory Campbell. Book it.



Wait one year and people are bashing Miller out just like Abdelkader now, because he is wanting a 2 million extension. He looks better only for next season, and the cap figure doesn't matter a damn thing in our current situation.
I agree. The Wings need more physical players in their bottom six, and getting rid of the Wings biggest hitter would be bad for the team.

Abby had almost twice as many hits as Miller last season, and had 50 more than Helm- the next highest forward.

Many posters wanted Gaustad on the Wings, and he signed a contract worth 3m+ against the cap. Gaustad is better at faceoff's, but not much else- and Abby had a better FO% last season than Z, Flip, and Helm.

Abby and Tootoo together are a line other teams can worry about physically and offensively. A line with only one of the two is not.

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08-11-2012, 10:49 AM
  #31
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The guy is a bum. If Kenny doesn't sign him I would send him a hand written thank you letter.

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08-11-2012, 11:20 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Sammy and Tootoo were UFAs. Not comparable. You don't have the luxury of waiting to see or matching any other offer in the mean time.

Helm is one of your top 5 core pieces up front going forward (yes, even as a bottom 6 forward.)

If Abby was Helm he would have been signed b now. I'm not sure the delay has anything to do with the CBA. Maybe, maybe not. But there's simply not going to a giant rush to sign a secondary, bottom 6 forward like Abby. Who knows, maybe Holland is not rushing it to first see if any moves are out there (JayBo, Yandle, maybe a forward) and what exactly would be leaving the organization with such a move.
A couple summers ago, Babs was pumping up Abby's tires, talking about how he was going to be the third line center, relegated Helm to the 4th line...... which made me lose my cool..... but now Helm is the core player is Abby is dirt. (Not saying this is your position, but the general overtone on the board.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
They're waiting on the new CBA because the salary cap will be lower which will make Abdelkaders cap hit lower
If the owners get what they want, Abby's pay will be reduced by 24% (like everyone else).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I think it's just the cost of signing nearly anyone this summer. Helm got a bit more than I would have expected coming into this summer, as have most players in one form or another (either $$$ or term).

At this point, I think it might be more about maintaining a structure rather than hitting on an actual number. Is Abdelkader worth as much as Helm? Obviously not. But is he worth more than Miller? I think so. If/when we sign him, I'm expecting somewhere around $1.6m at this point. Especially after we just signed Tootoo to $1.9m.

Now, I also think the Wings might be balking at paying that much -especially with Emmerton, Andersson and Sheahan all likely capable of stepping in and centering that fourth line - and are maybe dangling Gator in trades for a D. Not signing him might make him more valuable to other teams who will want to work out their own contracts with him.
I agree that KH probably has a structure he wants to maintain, which perhaps I agree with more for the lower end guys. I go worry when he tries to do that with the top end when he's going after elite UFAs.

As for dangling Abby, wouldn't his value be greater if he were signed?


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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
The guy is a bum. If Kenny doesn't sign him I would send him a hand written thank you letter.
He's not a bum. Just a role player.

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08-11-2012, 11:32 AM
  #33
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Most likely they haven't even talked much. The player wants to stay and the GM plans to sign him, there's no rush involved. Kenny has had the free agency and trades to look after as priorities up till this point. Quincey was signed a bit faster because he filed for arbitration.

There's a lot of (better) RFA's out there unsigned still, like Kane, Del Zotto, Kulikov, O'Reilly etc. Nothing extraordinary to see here.

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08-11-2012, 11:41 AM
  #34
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I'm not too worried about it. (Until he signs for $2m )

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08-11-2012, 11:41 AM
  #35
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Well...he's not very good.

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08-11-2012, 11:48 AM
  #36
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Well...he's not very good.

I think to an extent that he was misused. They probably wanted him to be like Tootoo, just banging around and maybe agitating, lesser versions of Maltby. Thing is that Malts and Tootoo (are we going to call him Toots?) aren't fighters and Abby has been trying to fight. He's just not a fighter and I think it looks stupid every time he drops the gloves against someone who actually does fight.

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08-11-2012, 12:21 PM
  #37
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I've seen him play some excellent hockey, just not very often and definitely not when it really matters. Should be a 2 year deal on the cheap to give him a chance to show some consistency and hopefully he matures into a smarter/more disciplined player.

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08-11-2012, 01:01 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think to an extent that he was misused. They probably wanted him to be like Tootoo, just banging around and maybe agitating, lesser versions of Maltby. Thing is that Malts and Tootoo (are we going to call him Toots?) aren't fighters and Abby has been trying to fight. He's just not a fighter and I think it looks stupid every time he drops the gloves against someone who actually does fight.
I'm just not really a fan of the guy. He doesn't really "hit", as much as he just runs into people. He doesn't really "fight", as much as he just drops his gloves then get's pummeled by whoever he goes after. Then offensively he provides very little. He's just very marginal to me, and I could do without him. I'm fine with him coming back, but as long as its cheap. If it's 2M like someone on here suggested, I would tell him to pack his bags.

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08-11-2012, 01:19 PM
  #39
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I've seen him play some excellent hockey, just not very often and definitely not when it really matters. Should be a 2 year deal on the cheap to give him a chance to show some consistency and hopefully he matures into a smarter/more disciplined player.
Fans took notice of him in the '10 and '11 playoff for good reason (not just taking stupid penalties in the offensive zone with minutes left to play).

Although I hear the argument a 4th line center shouldn't stand out, it doesn't apply to Abbie. Am I just a homer for believing Abdelkader has become a household name among NHL fans? The guy was chosen for the US team this spring because of more than his hitting. Tries to fight? I disagree. He's a descent fighter and stands up for his teammates every time, one of the only players we've got that will. I could easily see him in a bigger role than Cleary soon.

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08-11-2012, 01:45 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by hockeyisforeveryone View Post
Fans took notice of him in the '10 and '11 playoff for good reason (not just taking stupid penalties in the offensive zone with minutes left to play).

Although I hear the argument a 4th line center shouldn't stand out, it doesn't apply to Abbie. Am I just a homer for believing Abdelkader has become a household name among NHL fans? The guy was chosen for the US team this spring because of more than his hitting. Tries to fight? I disagree. He's a descent fighter and stands up for his teammates every time, one of the only players we've got that will. I could easily see him in a bigger role than Cleary soon.
Nate Thompson, Pat Dwyer, and Ryan Lasch were on that US team too. Who are they? yeah, exactly.

Sorry but Abdelkader is far from a household name.

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08-11-2012, 02:11 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyisforeveryone View Post
Fans took notice of him in the '10 and '11 playoff for good reason (not just taking stupid penalties in the offensive zone with minutes left to play).

Although I hear the argument a 4th line center shouldn't stand out, it doesn't apply to Abbie. Am I just a homer for believing Abdelkader has become a household name among NHL fans? The guy was chosen for the US team this spring because of more than his hitting. Tries to fight? I disagree. He's a descent fighter and stands up for his teammates every time, one of the only players we've got that will. I could easily see him in a bigger role than Cleary soon.
'Cause he's usually "going down"?

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08-11-2012, 02:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by WorkingOvertime View Post
I agree. The Wings need more physical players in their bottom six, and getting rid of the Wings biggest hitter would be bad for the team.

Abby had almost twice as many hits as Miller last season, and had 50 more than Helm- the next highest forward.

Many posters wanted Gaustad on the Wings, and he signed a contract worth 3m+ against the cap. Gaustad is better at faceoff's, but not much else- and Abby had a better FO% last season than Z, Flip, and Helm.

Abby and Tootoo together are a line other teams can worry about physically and offensively. A line with only one of the two is not.
Yeah, but how many faceoffs did he take? Abby was primarily a winger last year. The only time he would have taken a faceoff is if the center was waived out. I doubt he took more than a couple dozen. Compare that to Pavs, Z, and Helmer--centers who take regular faceoffs--who probably take over a thousand faceoffs in a season. If I won 6 out 10 faceoffs, my FO% would be 60%. That looks amazing on paper if you don't take into account that I only took 10 faceoffs.

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08-11-2012, 02:42 PM
  #43
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Ehhh Fugu, i think he is a pretty bad role player. He is supposed to be tough and physical and make it difficult to play against the Wings, but i have never felt like Gator is doing that. He is just soooooooo mediocre. He tries fighting, but he gets his face pushed in almost every time.

I view Gator as fake tough.

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08-11-2012, 02:50 PM
  #44
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Yeah, but how many faceoffs did he take? Abby was primarily a winger last year. The only time he would have taken a faceoff is if the center was waived out. I doubt he took more than a couple dozen. Compare that to Pavs, Z, and Helmer--centers who take regular faceoffs--who probably take over a thousand faceoffs in a season. If I won 6 out 10 faceoffs, my FO% would be 60%. That looks amazing on paper if you don't take into account that I only took 10 faceoffs.
Abby took the fourth most faceoffs on the Wings last season. He took more than Flip and Emmerton.

452 faceoffs isn't a lot for a center, but it was the fourth most on the team. It is certainly more than the "couple dozen" you thought you saw last season.

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08-11-2012, 03:12 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingOvertime View Post
Abby took the fourth most faceoffs on the Wings last season. He took more than Flip and Emmerton.

452 faceoffs isn't a lot for a center, but it was the fourth most on the team. It is certainly more than the "couple dozen" you thought you saw last season.
This. Together,Gator and Emmerton almost matched Helm in total FOs, but Gator took a vast majority of those. While I don't put Gator on a pedestal, he's far from the scrub many here are attempting to make him into. Once he stops being shuffled around and gets settled into one particular role, I think we'll start to see more out of him. I'd honestly like to see Gator, Helm, Tootoo become an established line. Emmerton would have to improve his FO for that line to stick though.

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08-11-2012, 03:14 PM
  #46
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Physical players that take the body just don't fit in here very well, I guess

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08-11-2012, 03:53 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingOvertime View Post
Abby took the fourth most faceoffs on the Wings last season. He took more than Flip and Emmerton.

452 faceoffs isn't a lot for a center, but it was the fourth most on the team. It is certainly more than the "couple dozen" you thought you saw last season.
I wasn't aware he took that many. Where can I look at faceoff numbers for the whole team?

For the record, I'm an Abdelkader supporter. I believe he can be a lot better for us in the proper role (i.e. Less enforcer, more grinding winger).

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08-11-2012, 04:02 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think to an extent that he was misused. They probably wanted him to be like Tootoo, just banging around and maybe agitating, lesser versions of Maltby. Thing is that Malts and Tootoo (are we going to call him Toots?) aren't fighters and Abby has been trying to fight. He's just not a fighter and I think it looks stupid every time he drops the gloves against someone who actually does fight.
Tootoo is absolutely a fighter, don't know where you got that.

He has fought a little less the last couple of years but a ton in his career and even his down years are near Abdelkader's fight totals.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/421

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08-11-2012, 04:05 PM
  #49
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Never understood why Abs has become somewhat of a fan favorite. IMO he's slightly better than Emmerton...and both are extremely mediocre hockey players and fringe NHL'ers. For all the hits and grit Abs suppossedly brings I rarely notice him during a shift, and if I do it's because he took a ridiculous penalty. You could bring Kirk Maltby out of retirement right now, put a pair of skates on him and give him a stick and he would be better than Abs RIGHT NOW.

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08-11-2012, 04:12 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
I wasn't aware he took that many. Where can I look at faceoff numbers for the whole team?

For the record, I'm an Abdelkader supporter. I believe he can be a lot better for us in the proper role (i.e. Less enforcer, more grinding winger).
NHL.com, among other sites, has the FO stats from last season.

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