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Old
08-11-2012, 12:55 PM
  #201
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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Berger is definitely not garbage. His skating is really bad right now but I think he's got what it takes to improve it this offseason.

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08-11-2012, 01:07 PM
  #202
David Thicke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pc_md View Post
Having a critical opinion is one thing. I actually think more posters should have a critical opinion on our prospects. For example, reading the article on our top 20, you get the impression we are a top 5 teams in terms of prospect pool which is not the case at all. There is not enough emphasis on our prospects weaknesses/areas they need to work on, but that is just my opinion and I'm sure many disagree with this.

As for calling a young man "garbage", that is not being critical. It's rude and classless. First, because these boards are accessible to anyone: players, famillies and friends. Second, because it does not bring anything to the argumentation. If you want to say you believe they have no chance of reaching the NHL, that's fine, there are others ways to express that.
The canadiens prospect pool has jumped significantly but you are right there is a lot of work on their game still to be done. The Habs are not a Top 5 team in terms of prospects but we are one of the more successful teams at getting our prospects to the NHL and drafting success rate, in the last 10 years.

I wish I could put more emphasis on their weakness but there isn't enough space per player for the article. It's too general in the terms of words to describe strengths and weakness. I would have to put out a dictionary for each type of weakness. What I really mean when I say, he needs to improve his defensive positioning. The players has trouble with down low coverage tends to lose board battles, keeps giving up inside position on entry to the zone or when entering the corner of his end with the opposing forward. Loses the front of his net and fails to pick up his player around his own net or fails to box out the front of the net properly or over plays the puck carrier from the corner out. He's caught to often in no man's land, bad gap control on entry or poor positioning on his angling or weak at pivoting so beaten outside or can't cover the inside. See what I mean about each weakness for the prospects, it's just too much to say and each one can have all of them or some of them. So I am forced to generalize but they all have weakness that's why they aren't yet in the NHL. Even the NHL players have weakness but that's hockey and how games are won, on the exploitation of your oppositions mistakes and minimizing your faults.

Thanks for the opinions and criticisms, it is appreciated!

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08-11-2012, 01:13 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
Yea Didier can bring more offense than Pateryn that's for sure.
I hope Didier can show more offensively now that he should be a regular for a full season, but if I compared him to Pateryn's Freshman year I would say Pateryn showed considerable more offensive skills as he actually has a decent shot that's heavy and he likes to pinch in just that he's not the fastest skater.

But Didier moves much better then Pateryn while looking shaper in his own end. Looking forward to seeing how he does next season at DU.

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That's quite funny.
? Not sure what was funny, I was busy at work so I kept it short.

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Originally Posted by David Thicke View Post
Oops, you are right about Pribyl, he has a December birthday so he can't play as he will be 20.

MacMillan is listed by the Canadiens as a LW and is on their actual depth charts as one but he did play the center position most of the year with all the injuries at UND. It is great for his development to play more positions. Ex. Holland is listed as a RW but played his rookie season at LW then most of his second year at center but played mostly RW this past year. He took important face-offs and play the center position on the penalty kill and defense on the power play. So what's is position really? RW, so MacMillan could play center or LW with Kristo this year in UND but then again you never really know what could happen with injuries or lack of scoring.

Didier is closer to Pateryn than Nash but he isn't even comparable because each player plays differently. What I meant was that Didier is more defensive minded like them but hasn't really shown his offensive capabilities yet in the NCAA. He could be better than both of them as he has three more years of development at the NCAA level.

Thanks again for the Pribyl catch, missed that one.
I haven't heard anything on how the lines are going to look for North Dakota, the good thing about MacMillan is that he can play at center or wing and not have it effect his style of play. I hope he's at center as his playing making and vision are his bread and butter and I like my centers to be playmakers with top notch passing skills despite him being so undersized. At least he's got the speed/skating and seems to have the heart as he consistently works hard and is willing to pay the price by going to the dirty areas in the o zone. I get to see almost every North Dakota game and he's certainly one of our more offensively skilled prospects so it will be interesting to see how much he can progress/develop over the next few years especially if he can fill out his frame and lower body strength by a good bit over the next 4 years or so.

I would say for sure that MacMillan will play with Kristo since they were consistently used together on the PK, which speaks to how impressive MacMillan had to be, even though ND was hit hard with injuries as a freshman he was a regular in the top 9, the PP and PK unlike say Cichy who struggled to get 4th line minutes his entire 2 years at ND. Kristo had a better season in his Freshman year but didn't work as hard consistently as MacMillan did.

I agree on the interchangable positions. I've been saying it in the Hamilton thread about just how many can play several forward positions. Quailer, Holland, Leblanc, Bournival, Nattinen, Dumont, can all play at center or wing, Vail, Walsh, Pribyl, MacMillan and Galchenyuk as well among the junior/ncaa guys. That's interesting that so many have played center/wing that it should be a benefit down the road for the Habs to have so many possible players that have experience playing multi-positions.

Yes Didier is closer to Pateryn then Nash, as Nash in Hamilton was all about the offense and shaky in his own end so that's the opposite of Didier who showed little in the way of offense but was very steady in his own end in addition to be very physical. I know that at Cornell, Nash didn't get many goals but he was on the top PP and was the top scorer on his team 3 of the 4 years he played there among the defensemen.

Denver is on tv a lot since they are one of the top programs in college hockey so I got to see a bunch of Didier and I can say he doesn't seem to be anything like Nash but he is a bit like Pateryn as both came out of the USHL and USHS as true freshman (although Pateryn's team folded in the USHL as he wasn't supposed to be a true freshman) both have big frames and can throw big time hits. Didier was more impressive when you compare both their Freshman years as Didier is a better skater and more mobile.

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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I agree.
I don't know if I would say Walsh is underrated other then the fact that usually every NCAA draft pick of ours will likely get underrated around here just due to the simple fact that many won't seem them play. But while I like Walsh and would easily have him higher then Lefebvre who I still am not sure why the Habs signed him in the first place although perhaps he could be a good ECHLer and I'd have him over Berger until Berger vastly improves his skating as Walsh while not the best or quickest of skaters moves much better then Berger (although we'll see how much the hip injury impacts him going forward as it's been a recurring injury and he's missed a lot of time).

That said while I like Walsh a lot, with what looks like a possible solid rookie class for Hamilton in 2013-2014 which after the huge class we will have this up coming season means ice time and contract space could have Walsh on the outside looking in especailly if the hip injury has had a impact on his game as he has good hands but struggled with consistency and has been bounced around the lineup (pre injury last season) which is not something you want or expect to see from an upperclassman in college hockey. I do hope that Walsh can get on track as he's got the skills so it will be interesting to see how it goes next season. Dartmouth isn't on tv all that much but usually I get to see them a couple times and in the past I've had a season pass to their home games (webcast, as Dartmouth is a very long drive for me! )

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It's hard to compare Walsh in the NCAA to Berger & Lefebvre in the AHL but if you look at those two in junior to Walsh in the NCAA then they have played better than him. Again, sometime the light bulb comes on at different times for each player, early bloomer vs late bloomer. You just never know and that's why it's a crap shoot!
I didn't see Berger in juniors but I did see Lefebvre and I would say that Walsh was easily better and showed a lot more offensively although Lefebvre is better in his own end then Walsh, I would personally have Walsh higher then Lefebvre for sure, Berger is a little tougher since he did show improvement in the 2nd half last season but with his skating being so poor and the way he greatly struggled for much of his time in the AHL I'd go with Walsh although the hip injury is a major concern to me since he's had it 3 years now so I can see why someone would take Berger over Walsh. In terms of talent I'd take Walsh

Although I wouldn't call any prospect garbage, Berger's stats are beyond brutal, 1 goal in 47 games, and a -19 is a tough one but worse then that is how he looked in many of those games. That said if the injuries didn't hit so hard he was supposed to go to the ECHL from what I had heard so who knows how it would have gone for him had he went that route as he clearly wasn't ready for the pace of the AHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
Berger is definitely not garbage. His skating is really bad right now but I think he's got what it takes to improve it this offseason.
I'd be surprised if he turned into anything for us, but hopefully he can improve his skating by leaps and bounds as getting free talent that helps the Habs is always good.


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08-11-2012, 01:42 PM
  #204
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Pateryn now has a better shot but he's lost if he can't make a very simple pass or go for the point shot. Didier is a little smarter and quicker to react from what I've seen. He's no offensive wizard but I expect a dozen points or something while playing in the top 4 next season.

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08-11-2012, 01:57 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
Pateryn now has a better shot but he's lost if he can't make a very simple pass or go for the point shot. Didier is a little smarter and quicker to react from what I've seen. He's no offensive wizard but I expect a dozen points or something while playing in the top 4 next season.
A dozen points from Didier would be nice to see, like I was saying, hopefully with him now being a full time regular that he will be more comfortable and do more offensively since he did put up some numbers in the USHL. If he can vastly improve his offensive game, look out as he would be a very interesting prospect since he already had NHL size at the age of 18 and can throw some big hits so it would make him a quality D prospect for sure.

Pateryn imo looks like he has good offensive instincts, they put up similar numbers in their Freshman year but Pateryn got limited ice time all year whereas Didier started out as the 7th D but endup in getting a regular spot for the entire 2nd half of the season. Pateryn saw limited time in his 2nd season as well and didn't really produce points until his Junior year. I like Didier more then Pateryn but at this point i'd be surprised if Didier develops his offensive side but we'll see how it goes for him.

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08-11-2012, 03:34 PM
  #206
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I like Didier more because I think what he has translates much better to the pro game. His defensive game is already well rounded and finished +6 playing bottom pair as a rookie. Good for 3rd +/- best D. Mayfield is ahead of him for RHD, but I think Didier will be on the 2nd pairing if all is healthy.

Basically:
Laleggia-Mayfield
???-Didier
???-???

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08-11-2012, 04:17 PM
  #207
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You can't say Berger & Lefebvre are garbage after playong only their rookie seasons in the AHL. If they are still there after four seasons and not showing improvement then call it what you want but for me they simply aren't NHL caliber at that time. It way to early to write-off young players who are playing in the league just below the NHL!

Walsh is underrated for a reason because he struggled with injuries this season but he has improved his game each of his years in the NCAA. He nneds to rebound this season and if he can put up a PPG this season then he will be offered a NHl entry level contract but he has to stay healthy.

It's hard to compare Walsh in the NCAA to Berger & Lefebvre in the AHL but if you look at those two in junior to Walsh in the NCAA then they have played better than him. Again, sometime the light bulb comes on at different times for each player, early bloomer vs late bloomer. You just never know and that's why it's a crap shoot!
Where do you come up with the conclusion that Berger and Lefebvre were better than Walsh when somehow trying to compare their junior stats to Walsh's NCAA stats?. Both Berger and Lefebvre are bad skaters, especially Berger who is downright awful. Neither one of these guys were even AHL calibre last season and are extremely unlikely to ever play in the NHL.

Walsh is a better prospect imo due to the fact that he is a better skater than either one of these players and he has the frame to put on alot more muscle. Neither one of Lefebvre or Berger ever put up a point per game in the CHL, even as overagers. Walsh had 10 pts in his 8 games last season playing at a higher level of hockey. No player on his team finished the season averaging a point per game. That may be a small sample but it certainly blows your statement of the other two players being better than him when they were in junior. Especially, when considering that Lefebvre never finished in the top 3 and Berger never finished in the top 5 in scoring for any of their respective junior teams.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one

Walsh isn't necessarily a great prospect but he certainly is more intriguing than the other two who I absolutely expected to be terrible last season.

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08-11-2012, 04:35 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Where do you come up with the conclusion that Berger and Lefebvre were better than Walsh when somehow trying to compare their junior stats to Walsh's NCAA stats?. Both Berger and Lefebvre are bad skaters, especially Berger who is downright awful. Neither one of these guys were even AHL calibre last season and are extremely unlikely to ever play in the NHL.

Walsh is a better prospect imo due to the fact that he is a better skater than either one of these players and he has the frame to put on alot more muscle. Neither one of Lefebvre or Berger ever put up a point per game in the CHL, even as overagers. Walsh had 10 pts in his 8 games last season playing at a higher level of hockey. No player on his team finished the season averaging a point per game. That may be a small sample but it certainly blows your statement of the other two players being better than him when they were in junior. Especially, when considering that Lefebvre never finished in the top 3 and Berger never finished in the top 5 in scoring for any of their respective junior teams.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one

Walsh isn't necessarily a great prospect but he certainly is more intriguing than the other two who I absolutely expected to be terrible last season.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there on Lefebvre. Skating is his strong suite and probably the main reason he was signed in the first place.


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08-12-2012, 07:08 AM
  #209
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there on Lefebvre. Skating is his strong suite and probably the main reason he was signed in the first place.
I have only seen Lefebvre a few times.......perhaps I am confusing my memory of his skating with someone else. That is very possible because I quickly wrote him off and really haven't paid much attention since.

I should also mention while I said Walsh is a much better skater than Berger, I am by no means saying that Walsh is a good skater......more of a statement about how poor of a skater that Berger is.

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08-12-2012, 10:36 AM
  #210
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I like Didier more because I think what he has translates much better to the pro game. His defensive game is already well rounded and finished +6 playing bottom pair as a rookie. Good for 3rd +/- best D. Mayfield is ahead of him for RHD, but I think Didier will be on the 2nd pairing if all is healthy.

Basically:
Laleggia-Mayfield
???-Didier
???-???
I'd have to check to see what incoming Freshman D Denver has for next season, but as far as I know they should have the following in the top 6, Paul Phillips, David Makowski, (both undrafted FA's) plus Didier, Laleggia, and Mayfield.

Makowski was injured for the entire 2nd half, so he should be in the top 4 unless the injury has set him back. Laleggia was used more on the 3rd pairing as he's very weak in his own end but is dangerous on the PP.

Didier really grew on me as the season progressed and he got more ice time. Certainly an interesting prospect to keep an eye on and the Habs can take their time with him since they have so many incoming rookie defensemen over the next two years (Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn then Deitz and Thrower plus maybe Bennett and if they sign Nygren as well)

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08-12-2012, 11:03 AM
  #211
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Oh yea forgot about Makowski. He's pretty good.

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08-14-2012, 03:57 PM
  #212
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Tomorrow's the last day for teams to sign their NCAA draft picks that finished their 4 years. The only Hab we have to sign is Scott Kishel, so it's likely his last day in the organization.

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08-17-2012, 07:39 AM
  #213
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http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...17-mac-bennett

Quote from the article : Perhaps the most discouraging aspect of Bennett's profile is the negative reports about his hockey sense. Corey Pronman sees it as his biggest obstacle to making it to the NHL. It's why he's labelled as an offensive blueliner without putting up great point totals. It's why he's underwhelming in his own zone so far.

I tought hockey sense was one of his strength ?

I know montreal is very high on him ... maybe he can comment on this since he saw him play pretty often.

Thx montreal!

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08-17-2012, 09:50 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...17-mac-bennett

Quote from the article : Perhaps the most discouraging aspect of Bennett's profile is the negative reports about his hockey sense. Corey Pronman sees it as his biggest obstacle to making it to the NHL. It's why he's labelled as an offensive blueliner without putting up great point totals. It's why he's underwhelming in his own zone so far.

I tought hockey sense was one of his strength ?

I know montreal is very high on him ... maybe he can comment on this since he saw him play pretty often.
I don't think Hockey sense is a problem for Bennett, his lack of size/strength and physical game are the only concerns I have for him. For Bennett it was his 2nd season in the NCAA and first full season yet he was on the top pairing, was his teams top defensemen and was a regular on the PP and PK all year. His coach called him the most improved player on the team.

His best assets are his skating/foot speed/mobility. He can get the puck out of his zone in a hurry either by skating it out or crisp passing. Doesn't have a big shot but will pinch in a lot and is a good passer.

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08-17-2012, 01:51 PM
  #215
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Both Collberg (Frolunda) and Pribyl (Sparta Praha) are participating in the annual Euro Trophy. No points.

You can follow at www.europeantrophy.com. Keep in mind times are 6 hours ahead of EST.

And Pribyl finished his 2nd game with 2 goals playing on the 4th line!


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08-17-2012, 03:51 PM
  #216
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That would explain why the no points. Note that Frolunda is just starting their "season" and they are likely experimenting with lines.
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Pretty sad to see Collberg listed as extra forward tonight in the ET.

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08-18-2012, 09:14 AM
  #217
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Oh and....bye Scott Kishel. Happy to see that while I love watching prospects evolutions through the years, that I didn't spend too much time watching yours.

Though your last season might make ECHL teams see what's your all about. Good luck.

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08-18-2012, 12:49 PM
  #218
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That would explain why the no points. Note that Frolunda is just starting their "season" and they are likely experimenting with lines.
yea I wouldn't worry about preseason, they still have a couple weeks before the regular season opens so we'll see what happens after that.

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Oh and....bye Scott Kishel. Happy to see that while I love watching prospects evolutions through the years, that I didn't spend too much time watching yours.

Though your last season might make ECHL teams see what's your all about. Good luck.
I'd sign him to an AHL contract for ECHL depth, I was hoping they would add some guys on AHL contracts for the ECHL. Don't see the harm in giving out more AHL contracts in case injuries hit hard again.

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08-18-2012, 10:13 PM
  #219
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I'd sign him to an AHL contract for ECHL depth, I was hoping they would add some guys on AHL contracts for the ECHL. Don't see the harm in giving out more AHL contracts in case injuries hit hard again.
True. At one point, with his ECHL success, I thought the Dogs might have been tempted to sign....David Fischer. I guess not. But there are certainly other players out there. I'd also love to see more prospects or AHL signees going to the ECHL.

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08-19-2012, 12:57 PM
  #220
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I wonder why Pribyl is not playing now after scoring twice in the game on Friday.

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08-19-2012, 01:17 PM
  #221
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I wonder why Pribyl is not playing now after scoring twice in the game on Friday.
Those games are preparatory matches for the teams.

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08-20-2012, 01:03 PM
  #222
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I'd have to check to see what incoming Freshman D Denver has for next season, but as far as I know they should have the following in the top 6, Paul Phillips, David Makowski, (both undrafted FA's) plus Didier, Laleggia, and Mayfield.

Makowski was injured for the entire 2nd half, so he should be in the top 4 unless the injury has set him back. Laleggia was used more on the 3rd pairing as he's very weak in his own end but is dangerous on the PP.

Didier really grew on me as the season progressed and he got more ice time. Certainly an interesting prospect to keep an eye on and the Habs can take their time with him since they have so many incoming rookie defensemen over the next two years (Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn then Deitz and Thrower plus maybe Bennett and if they sign Nygren as well)

Love to broaden the discussion to the top 8 defensemen returning or starting their NCAA college hockey careers. Always difficult to select freshman but here is my best shot alphabetically:

1. Danny Bieqa Harvard
2. Mike Boivin Colorado College
3. Derek Forbot North Dakota
4. Stephen Johns Notre Dame
5. Jon Merrill Michigan
6. Garrett Noonan Boston University
7. Nate Schmidt Minnesota
8. Patrick Wey Boston College

Top offensive defenseman...Nate Schmidt
Top defensive defenseman...Patrick Wey

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08-20-2012, 01:48 PM
  #223
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Thrower at 16 in HEOTP's top 25 under 25 prospect list. Even with a lot of established NHLers slated to be listed above him, he's a pretty good prospect to be 16. Made me think just how much work has been done to restock what was a pretty bare cupboard for prospects for a couple of years there. In terms of young talent we seem to have decent depth at all levels, CHL, AHL and NHL. We're not world-beaters in terms of prospects by any means, but it should be some time before we have to face a Bulldogs team as barren of good prospects as last year's was.

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08-20-2012, 03:02 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caps Crazy View Post
Love to broaden the discussion to the top 8 defensemen returning or starting their NCAA college hockey careers. Always difficult to select freshman but here is my best shot alphabetically:

1. Danny Bieqa Harvard
2. Mike Boivin Colorado College
3. Derek Forbot North Dakota
4. Stephen Johns Notre Dame
5. Jon Merrill Michigan
6. Garrett Noonan Boston University
7. Nate Schmidt Minnesota
8. Patrick Wey Boston College

Top offensive defenseman...Nate Schmidt
Top defensive defenseman...Patrick Wey
Certainly Mac Bennett is a worthy freshman whoops(Sorry Bennett's a Junior),from what I've seen he might be a really pleasant surprise for the Habs.His coach Red(the Baron) Berenson is quite impressed with his play,I see a possible replacement for Andrei Markov in 5-6 yrs.This young defenceman with the bloodlines going three generations of NHLers when he joins the Habs.Grandfather was a goalie from Rocket Richard's days,(he was in net for the Rockets 50th goal in 50 games) his uncles were forwards that played for Team USA in the 1976 Canada Cup and both had good careers in the NHL.Bennett may be the most underrated prospect in the Habs system IMO and should be accorded some respect for his play for the Wolverines in Michigan.The Wolverines could be a serious threat for the NCAA Title this season,their defence is veteran and their offence will receive a boost from the likes of DiGiuseppe,Nieves and Trouba this year.Bennett will be a leader on the Wolverines and possibly be paired with Trouba,Berenson holds him in that high regard.Trouba is definitely going to be a great freshman for Michigan and quite possibly the best overall rookie in the NCAA this season.I'm hoping that Bennett will be the Captain for the Michigan squad this season and next.


Last edited by S Bah: 08-20-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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08-22-2012, 10:49 PM
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http://www.nhlpa.com/news/headlines/...-nhl-prospects

Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and Tinordi invited to the NHLPA rookie showcase. Only 30 prospects gets an invite.

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