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Aside from Carey, do we have a "star"?

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Old
08-11-2012, 06:59 PM
  #51
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The 11th leading goal scorer in the league isn't a "star"? I think you all are placing too high a threshold on what constitutes a "star" player vs. a "superstar" player.

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Old
08-11-2012, 07:50 PM
  #52
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It's funny.. I always figured there were 3 levels:

-Franchise players: these are players who have a huge impact on the franchise and our generally top tier talents at their position (top 5)
-Superstars: these are players who have a pretty big impact on their team and I consider to be top 10 at their position
-Stars: these are players I consider to be great talents and generally top 30 at their position

Having said that:

-I consider Price a superstar and close to a franchise player
-Markov when he was healthy was a star player. If he returns to full health and maintains his ability to read and contribute to plays, he'll be a star again.
-Pacioretty and Subban are close to stars but not quite yet. Budding star might be the next label if there were one.

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08-11-2012, 07:56 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patp77 View Post
It's funny.. I always figured there were 3 levels:

-Franchise players: these are players who have a huge impact on the franchise and our generally top tier talents at their position (top 5)
-Superstars: these are players who have a pretty big impact on their team and I consider to be top 10 at their position
-Stars: these are players I consider to be great talents and generally top 30 at their position

Having said that:

-I consider Price a superstar and close to a franchise player
-Markov when he was healthy was a star player. If he returns to full health and maintains his ability to read and contribute to plays, he'll be a star again.
-Pacioretty and Subban are close to stars but not quite yet. Budding star might be the next label if there were one.
Pacioretty and Subban are both top-30 at their positions ...

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:28 PM
  #54
Chris G
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Which exactly serves my point. Max Pacioretty has shown a better development then Taylor Hall who seems to have developped a talent to become injured more then anything else.

If Hall = star

then

Pacioretty = star

There are star players who don't necessarily score 30 goals from season to season and still have that level of notoriety. I think that what makes Max Pacioretty a star, is his style of play and his work ethic more then his goal production. There's not that many players who are gamebreakers and bring the same edge. Also the only way he stop producing 30 goals per season it'll be because he has done another major concussin or sign a big juicy contract and stop caring about how he performs.
Totally agree, justifying players as star/not star is not as clear cut as everyone makes it out to be. From what I've seen on these forums especially is that star status at a young age is much more socially acceptable among the general population if the player has been successful/ superstar status in the junior ranks. I believe this is the case because the majority of us believe Hall has been a star in the junior levels so whats stopping him from being a star at the NHL level? On the otherhand, Patches has never been a bonifide star in the junior ranks especially with the lack of coverage playing in the usa. So, the majority who are not habs fans believe he has something to prove, even though he scored 30+ goals. This is very similar to the case of Phil Kessel if you want the flip side before he was traded to Toronto. It's a weird social standard we have when judging hockey players, but I don't see it changing anytime soon.

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:33 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TakiHaque View Post
Ovechkin not a superstar? Are you nuts? He had 4 season of more than 100 points (like crosby and 1 more than Malkin) and thats not superstar? kovalchuk also is a superstar but not as great as the others, same thing for the sedins
let me clarify. yes it looks like I said they weren't my bad. I was just making sure that people don't think that im talking about paches being a super star. could he be? maybe some day but I see him as a star for sure down the road. But last season Ovechkin played like a star not a superstar.

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08-11-2012, 08:49 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Which exactly serves my point. Max Pacioretty has shown a better development then Taylor Hall who seems to have developped a talent to become injured more then anything else.

If Hall = star

then

Pacioretty = star

There are star players who don't necessarily score 30 goals from season to season and still have that level of notoriety. I think that what makes Max Pacioretty a star, is his style of play and his work ethic more then his goal production. There's not that many players who are gamebreakers and bring the same edge. Also the only way he stop producing 30 goals per season it'll be because he has done another major concussin or sign a big juicy contract and stop caring about how he performs.
I love Pacioretty but you need to remove the homer glasses.

Hall is 3 years younger and produced at a slightly higher ppg than Max did last season. If you have watched Hall then you would know that he plays with an edge
and health permitting he is well on his way to being one of the brighter stars in the league.

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:54 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
let me clarify. yes it looks like I said they weren't my bad. I was just making sure that people don't think that im talking about paches being a super star. could he be? maybe some day but I see him as a star for sure down the road. But last season Ovechkin played like a star not a superstar.
It looked like Ovechkin was going to disprove many of the Russian stereotypes but he has turned into a selfish coach killer. Hopefully he grows up a little because he was incredible to watch when he was playing with fire in his eyes.

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It looked like Ovechkin was going to disprove many of the Russian stereotypes but he has turned into a selfish coach killer. Hopefully he grows up a little because he was incredible to watch when he was playing with fire in his eyes.
He was great in the second half of last year and in the playoffs.

He just underwhelmed in the first half. Happens sometimes.

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Old
08-11-2012, 09:02 PM
  #59
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Patches, as much as I love the guy, is not a star.

I think for now and years to come, it's the Price and Subban show.

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08-11-2012, 11:13 PM
  #60
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yes

Subban is a future superstar.

Pacioretty can be a star.

Price is somewhere in-between a star and superstar right now.

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Old
08-11-2012, 11:43 PM
  #61
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I don't see star potential with pacioretty. Not at all. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a consist 25-25 guy more than he is a consistent 35 goal guy. I get it, he's accomplished 30+ goals, but I'm not sure on his true potential just yet. He could end up a being a solid fixture for us on top line but I don't see PPG or much upside left in him.

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08-11-2012, 11:45 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't see star potential with pacioretty. Not at all. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a consist 25-25 guy more than he is a consistent 35 goal guy. I get it, he's accomplished 30+ goals, but I'm not sure on his true potential just yet. He could end up a being a solid fixture for us on top line but I don't see PPG or much upside left in him.
Well, I guess everyone's criteria of a star is slightly different. I dont think you need to hit a PPG pace to be a star in this league.

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08-11-2012, 11:46 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't see star potential with pacioretty. Not at all. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a consist 25-25 guy more than he is a consistent 35 goal guy. I get it, he's accomplished 30+ goals, but I'm not sure on his true potential just yet. He could end up a being a solid fixture for us on top line but I don't see PPG or much upside left in him.
Same here, I don't think Max will exponentially improve upon this season, but will plateau at around 30-30 production, with a few 35-40 goal seasons maybe

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08-11-2012, 11:47 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
Come on. PK has potential but saying he is a bonafide star is stretching it a bit. Patches and Cole are much higher on that list right now.
IMO every team in our division has forwards at Pacioretty and Cole's level. Buffalo and Toronto don't have a defenceman who can do what Subban does.

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Old
08-12-2012, 12:10 AM
  #65
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Last superstar = Roy
Last star = Markov - to be seen if can still play at that level
Good/Great players = Pacioretty, Subban, Price, Cole, Gionta

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08-12-2012, 12:58 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Well, I guess everyone's criteria of a star is slightly different. I dont think you need to hit a PPG pace to be a star in this league.
Chris Stewart hit back to back 28 goal seasons and brought more toughness and size than pacioretty. I mean, we can call it whatever we like but stewart regressed and while I don't expect that of pacioretty I don't see the talent level to justify him continuously improving from this point on. I think he's a fixture as a core piece of the team but he's not a star and may never be. It really isn't about being a PPG player or whatever. It's about asking "can pacioretty maintain this level of play?" and while I think he can hit 70 points, I also think he could hit 50 next year...which although not PPG is a far cry from star numbers. I don't think he'll even hit Loui Eriksson's numbers. (70+ points 3 years running) but his max upside would be that IMO. Which would be excellent, but thats IF he reaches it.


Last edited by LyricalLyricist: 08-12-2012 at 01:35 AM.
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Old
08-12-2012, 01:06 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Chris Stewart hit back to back 28 goal seasons and brought more toughness and size than pacioretty. I mean, we can call it whatever we like but stewart regressed and while I don't expect that of pacioretty I don't see the talent level to justify him continuously improving from this point on. I think he's a fixture as a core piece of the team but he's not a star and may never be. It really isn't about being a PPG player or whatever. It's about asking "can pacioretty maintain this level of play?" and while I think he got hit 70 points, I also think he could hit 50 next year...which although not PPG is a far cry from star numbers. I don't think he'll even hit Loui Eriksson's numbers. (70+ points 3 years running) but his max upside would be that IMO. Which would be excellent, but thats IF he reaches it.
Cammalleri was our last star forward, but he never played to that stardom level except in the POs.
Otherwise, our best forward was and still remains Plekanec, and I don't think anybody considers him a star. So I don't see how anybody who's not better than him can be labeled a star.

For the time being, Price is a star, and PK could reach that status next year. That's it for now.

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Old
08-12-2012, 03:14 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't see star potential with pacioretty. Not at all. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a consist 25-25 guy more than he is a consistent 35 goal guy. I get it, he's accomplished 30+ goals, but I'm not sure on his true potential just yet. He could end up a being a solid fixture for us on top line but I don't see PPG or much upside left in him.
Lets wait till he plays with a real first line center like Galchenyuk.. I think Pac could score 40-45 goals eventually.. I dont think Pac will ever be considered a star in this league though, but certainly not very far from that status, a hell of good player to have on your team.. He already is a pretty solid top 6 foward..

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Old
08-12-2012, 06:05 AM
  #69
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He was great in the second half of last year and in the playoffs.

He just underwhelmed in the first half. Happens sometimes.
That is incorrect.

He sucked in the playoffs with 9 points in 14 games, which is only a 50 point pace.

His 34 pts in the final 41 games is almost an identical pace as his 31 points in his first 37 games.

He is talented enough to score 65 pts in his sleep. It really was a pathetic effort by him from start to finish.

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08-12-2012, 06:50 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by persh View Post
Last superstar = Roy
Last star = Markov - to be seen if can still play at that level
Good/Great players = Pacioretty, Subban, Price, Cole, Gionta
Yup, that pretty much sums it up. IMO. Subban is proving, and on his way up the ladder, may reach superstar level someday. Still not convinced about Price,but every ingredient is there to make it to that level also.

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Old
08-12-2012, 07:39 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
No. Pacioretty and Cole are good players but nowhere near star calibre. Subban is a player with star potential but right now he is just a young player who is developing. He hasn't accomplished anything. He was thrust into a #1 role because of injuries and was rather mediocre.
every metric imaginable says you are wrong

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Old
08-12-2012, 07:40 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persh View Post
Last superstar = Roy
Last star = Markov - to be seen if can still play at that level
Good/Great players = Pacioretty, Subban, Price, Cole, Gionta
Agree.
Just because you're a good player on a team of mediocre players doesn't make you a
star.Hopefully we just drafted a future star.

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Old
08-12-2012, 09:13 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by DoingItLeBlancWay View Post
Same here, I don't think Max will exponentially improve upon this season, but will plateau at around 30-30 production, with a few 35-40 goal seasons maybe
In today's NHL, those are star numbers.

Maybe we could choose a simpler way to define what makes a star... If a player is invited to the all-star game, he should be considered a star. If he's invited regularly, then he can be considered a superstar.

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Old
08-12-2012, 09:26 AM
  #74
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Now that wasn't the question, was it?

Stars, not superstars.

And yes, stars we have 3 (Markov Price and Subban) with a few more on the cusp
Title must of been edited cause it said star/superstar

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Old
08-12-2012, 09:43 AM
  #75
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I like Price, but still find these superstar claims to be more hype and potential than substance, he's a very solid goalie. I'd leave it at that.

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