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You honestly have no idea what your are talking about. With or without Bartschi, Rattie performed well. I think you can ask any fan of the team and they will tell you they both made each other better. It was not one player carrying the other player.
I find it laughable that you would suggest I don't know what I'm talking about, stop getting defensive. Rattie scored a crapload of goals with Bartschi setting him up. I highly doubt you yourself have watched any Winterhawks games if you are suggesting Bartschi wasnt a huge factor in Ratties success.
I find it laughable that you would suggest I don't know what I'm talking about, stop getting defensive. Rattie scored a crapload of goals with Bartschi setting him up. I highly doubt you yourself have watched any Winterhawks games if you are suggesting Bartschi wasnt a huge factor in Ratties success.
Swing and a miss.
Look up Rattie's stats without Bartschi last season. His stats were still impressive. Sure he was better with Bartschi but he was still a very good player without him. It is comparable to Hull and Oates. Hall was great player without Oates but with Oates he had an 86 goal season. Would Hull have scored 86 without Oates most likely not. Was Hull still a greta player without him yes it was.
So While Bartschi did elevate Ratties play Rattie was still a PPG player with out Bartschi.
You are coming across as ignorant as the stats do not lie Rattie was still a very good player without Bartschi.
If the Blues did a Rattie + a pick trade for Jay Bouwmeester I would be okay with it but rumor has it that the Flames want a top six forward and either a mid level prospect or a late 1st for him.
That's a big price to pay IMO.
The Blues won't pay that.
I'd even consider a Rattie + Cole deal if it were Bouwmeester and Backlund. Heck i'd even throw in a 3rd for those two.
Look up Rattie's stats without Bartschi last season. His stats were still impressive. Sure he was better with Bartschi but he was still a very good player without him. It is comparable to Hull and Oates. Hall was great player without Oates but with Oates he had an 86 goal season. Would Hull have scored 86 without Oates most likely not. Was Hull still a greta player without him yes it was.
So While Bartschi did elevate Ratties play Rattie was still a PPG player with out Bartschi.
You are coming across as ignorant as the stats do not lie Rattie was still a very good player without Bartschi.
All I have to say in all this is. Baertschi 5 GP 3 G 0 A. Averaging 5-10 mins a game on the 4th line.
Rattie 0 GP 0 G 0 A
Baertschi clearly has more stock than Rattie, period
All I have to say in all this is. Baertschi 5 GP 3 G 0 A. Averaging 5-10 mins a game on the 4th line.
Rattie 0 GP 0 G 0 A
Baertschi clearly has more stock than Rattie, period
I'm not arguing who holds more value. I am just stating Rattie is still a good player on his own without Baertschi. When did I ever say Rattie was better then Baertschi?
My response was to people who said that Rattie was not very good and was over rated. It was to the people that said Baertschi is the only reason Rattie put up good numbers.
If the Blues did a Rattie + a pick trade for Jay Bouwmeester I would be okay with it but rumor has it that the Flames want a top six forward and either a mid level prospect or a late 1st for him.
That's a big price to pay IMO.
The Blues won't pay that.
I'd even consider a Rattie + Cole deal if it were Bouwmeester and Backlund. Heck i'd even throw in a 3rd for those two.
Flames wouldn't do that deal. Bouwmeester is a better player than Cole and worth more than him. Backlund is also a better player than Rattie and worth more in a trade. Rattie hasn't even played a game at the AHL level so we aren't even sure if his game will translate to the minor league level let alone the NHL. I think a Berglund + Cole for Bouwmeester + Backlund deal makes sense for both teams. Calgary improves in the middle but takes a hit on the blueline. St. Louis improves on the blueline but takes a hit in the middle. There is risk for both teams but both teams could come out smelling like roses if all players play to expectations. The only thing would do is throw in a conditional swap of first picks based on very specific performance criteria.
Flames wouldn't do that deal. Bouwmeester is a better player than Cole and worth more than him. Backlund is also a better player than Rattie and worth more in a trade. Rattie hasn't even played a game at the AHL level so we aren't even sure if his game will translate to the minor league level let alone the NHL. I think a Berglund + Cole for Bouwmeester + Backlund deal makes sense for both teams. Calgary improves in the middle but takes a hit on the blueline. St. Louis improves on the blueline but takes a hit in the middle. There is risk for both teams but both teams could come out smelling like roses if all players play to expectations. The only thing would do is throw in a conditional swap of first picks based on very specific performance criteria.
The Blues wouldn't trade Berglund even for Yandle. Why on Earth would we downgrade our center position (a position we are weaker at than defense) in order to get Bouwmeester? I hope Flames fans don't think they are gonna get a Rick Nash type of return for him because that is hardly happening.
Berglund + Cole for Bouwmeester + Backlund is sore overpayment to Calgary.
Flames wouldn't do that deal. Bouwmeester is a better player than Cole and worth more than him. Backlund is also a better player than Rattie and worth more in a trade. Rattie hasn't even played a game at the AHL level so we aren't even sure if his game will translate to the minor league level let alone the NHL. I think a Berglund + Cole for Bouwmeester + Backlund deal makes sense for both teams. Calgary improves in the middle but takes a hit on the blueline. St. Louis improves on the blueline but takes a hit in the middle. There is risk for both teams but both teams could come out smelling like roses if all players play to expectations. The only thing would do is throw in a conditional swap of first picks based on very specific performance criteria.
The Blues had the #1 defense in the league last season we do not need Bouwmeester. Losing Berglund and replacing him with Backlund makes the Blues a worse team. Berglund is simply not available unless we are upgrading our center position. Backlund would be a downgrade so it's not even almost a deal that makes sense for the Blues.
People seem to forget the Blues were one of the top teams in the league last season. The Blues have upgraded their team with the addition of Tarasenko and possibly Schwartz. Personally I feel like Cole is an upgrade over Cola. So we are a better team then we were on paper last season. We do not need to make a single trade and should be one of the top teams in the NHL.
Tell me why downgrading from Berglund to Backlund makes sense for the Blues. The Blues already had the best defense in the league so we do not need Bouwmeester.
I actually think Bouwmeester is a better defender than Gio, he is certainly more talented and has a better tool box. Gio won't be moved though because he is almost as important as Iginla is to our team, like Backes is to the Blues. He's so respected in the lockerroom and beloved by the fans. Trading him, would be a PR nightmare.
Bouwmeester is our top dman, and we could not afford to move him for anything less than what his value is to our team. And that value is much higher than what other fanbases perceive it to be on the open trade market due to his contract.
Understood the Blues are a budget team, so someone like Jbo may not be attractive to them. I'd want Cole and Rattie, and I think both sides would be more than happy to both walk away.
I think a Berglund + Cole for Bouwmeester + Backlund deal makes sense for both teams.
Well, I can see such a deal would make sense for the Flames, but what what would be the other team this deal would make sense for?
Quote:
St. Louis improves on the blueline but takes a hit in the middle.
Oh, I see, the deal would make sense for the Blues as well.
Hmmm,,.
Quote:
There is risk for both teams but both teams could come out smelling like roses if all players play to expectations.
I fear you have not explained this quite right.
Calgary would come out smelling like a rose during bloom.
The Blues would come out smelling like a rose during the planting phase.
Had the opportunity to watch rattie play a bit this past season, and he impressed me even when Baertschi wasn't around. I don't necessarily think the two have the sort of lightning in a bottle chemistry that you give up key assets for unless the absolute right deal presented itself.
I think it was just a matter of two good junior players happening to play on the same line together.
I'd like to hold on to Rattie for now. I'm thinking he could be a fairly decent winger next to Bergy or maybe even McCrae somewhere in the future. I could see Rattie getting a few games in this season with the Blues if there are injuries.
As for Cole I think he is ready to play every night. I think if he proves himself in camp he could be given a chance to be next to Petro (and that's just my opininion).
If I'm army, I hold on to both players for now.
I'd like to hold on to Rattie for now. I'm thinking he could be a fairly decent winger next to Bergy or maybe even McCrae somewhere in the future. I could see Rattie getting a few games in this season with the Blues if there are injuries.
As for Cole I think he is ready to play every night. I think if he proves himself in camp he could be given a chance to be next to Petro (and that's just my opininion).
If I'm army, I hold on to both players for now.
Rattie will be staying in junior unless he blows away the coaches in training camp, which means he won't see NHL duty.
You are coming across as ignorant as the stats do not lie Rattie was still a very good player without Bartschi.
Stop whining and getting defensive. I never said Rattie was a bad player. A great chunk of his success came playing with Bartschi; I never said he was overrated or that he was a terrible prospect, geezus.
Not sure why fellow Flames fans are acting like Bartschi is a seasoned vet in comparison to Rattie... He played 5 measly games.
Sure he did great, but my goodness, don't piss yourselves, it was a small sample size.
Thank you. I fully agree. I'm hopeful but not calling him a superstar yet.
I find it laughable that you would suggest I don't know what I'm talking about, stop getting defensive. Rattie scored a crapload of goals with Bartschi setting him up. I highly doubt you yourself have watched any Winterhawks games if you are suggesting Bartschi wasnt a huge factor in Ratties success.
Swing and a miss.
Rattie scored a crap load of goals without Baertschi as well. To suggest "the vast majority of his goals" were a result of Baertschi's playmaking is simply false. No one is getting defensive, but you seem to just be completely ignoring the actual statistics.
Also, no Blues fans are implying that Rattie is in any way better than Baertschi. I think it's safe to say we'd all rather have Baertschi.
Rattie scored a crap load of goals without Baertschi as well. To suggest "the vast majority of his goals" were a result of Baertschi's playmaking is simply false. No one is getting defensive, but you seem to just be completely ignoring the actual statistics.
Also, no Blues fans are implying that Rattie is in any way better than Baertschi. I think it's safe to say we'd all rather have Baertschi.
Bartschi obviously made Rattie better, and Rattie is still a great prospect. Already explained above.
Last edited by spiny norman: 08-13-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Reason: not needed
As a Blues fan, I would trade Rattie + 2nd for Bouwmeester. Or maybe D'Agostini fits in there as a piece? I'd rather keep Cole, and my impression is that Calgary would prefer offensive players.
But the problem is what Bouwmeester's salary does to the team structure at a time when the Blues are expecting to have to pay some of their top young players (Pietro, Shattenkirk, Stewart even) for longer term non-ELC deals. The team salary could balloon pretty quickly. If Bouwmeester isn't the long-term answer on the top pairing, then I would want to be careful not to create a situation that limits the team's future negotiating flexibility.
Armstrong just won GM of the year. A big reason for that is that he's shown patience. I don't think the right guy the Blues need is available right now, or not at a reasonable price. The Blues are in a situation where they can be patient now. So is Calgary. I don't see this trade happening until maybe mid-season. But as a Blues fan, I'd part with Ty Rattie for Bouwmeester. His presence would immediately improve the Blues defense over what currently constitutes it, and I think having Pietro as a partner would make JayBo suddenly look a lot better.
A lot of Rattie's goals were the result of Bartschi driving hard to the net, and slipping one back door for a tap in. It seemed like every second game Bartschi was hooking Rattie up with those.
With that said, I'm still a big fan of Rattie's and have always wanted him in the Flames system. Just not at the price of Gio.
