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It's August -- Why is Abdelkader Still Unsigned? (Signed to 4-yr deal, $1.7M per)

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Old
08-12-2012, 01:37 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
nobody in the history of the world is my guess....
No one on the Wings last season.

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08-12-2012, 02:22 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by WorkingOvertime View Post
No one on the Wings last season.
its not that he isnt good or dosent serve his purpose, by all means he does and does it fairly well, its just that our bottom 6 apart form helm and now tootoo could very easily be described using the same adjectives

given his age and his contract demands coupled with his career #'s, I simply see him being used in a deal to secure another dman(a good dman top pairing) if such a one should come about

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08-12-2012, 02:48 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
its not that he isnt good or dosent serve his purpose, by all means he does and does it fairly well, its just that our bottom 6 apart form helm and now tootoo could very easily be described using the same adjectives
Abdelkader has far more in common with Tootoo than he does with anyone else in the bottom 6. The only difference between them really is that Tootoo is a better skater, and Abdelkader is bigger.

I'm not sure what Abdelkader has in common with the rest of the bottom 6. He's not as good offensively as some of them but he was far and away the most physical player of our forwards last year.

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08-12-2012, 02:49 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
its not that he isnt good or dosent serve his purpose, by all means he does and does it fairly well, its just that our bottom 6 apart form helm and now tootoo could very easily be described using the same adjectives

given his age and his contract demands coupled with his career #'s, I simply see him being used in a deal to secure another dman(a good dman top pairing) if such a one should come about
Compare his career numbers to Helm's, then compare the numbers of the linemates each has had each season.

Abby is the best person for the 4th line center position within the Wings organization, and that's now his best position. The team is worse with Emmerton as the 4C. If you compare Abby at 2m to the free agents signed this off-season, I don't see how that is a bad contract. Hopefully, someone can step up to the 4C position next season to allow Abby to play wing.

The Wings haven't lacked skill the past few seasons, but they have lacked physicality and heart. Replacing Abby with Tootoo doesn't help that problem, but having both does.

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08-12-2012, 02:51 PM
  #80
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The guy can play wing, centre, hits pretty hard and is the only willing forward to drop the gloves while being only 25 years old. He gets stuck playing fourth line center with terrible linemates (Homer and Emmerton) while he is much better at playing wing and still only produced 3 less points then Miller who got to play wing on the third line. Miller doesnt hit or fight and lacks physicality completely, is older and cant play center but everyone here has a ***** for him and doesnt want Abdelkader back. Makes sense to me

Hes going to go out there and play with Tootoo this year who is actually a solid linemate and he will be valuable. There was even a thread on the mainboard talking about physical bottom 6 players and fans of other teams mentioned Abdelkader quite a bit.

Hes forced to act like the only tough guy on the team because the team has been so soft. There is no wy a guy like Abdelkader should be stepping up a weight class and fighting Ryane Clowe. When he fights guys like Ott and Lappiere he does fine.

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08-12-2012, 03:20 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
The guy can play wing, centre, hits pretty hard and is the only willing forward to drop the gloves while being only 25 years old. He gets stuck playing fourth line center with terrible linemates (Homer and Emmerton) while he is much better at playing wing and still only produced 3 less points then Miller who got to play wing on the third line. Miller doesnt hit or fight and lacks physicality completely, is older and cant play center but everyone here has a ***** for him and doesnt want Abdelkader back. Makes sense to me

Hes going to go out there and play with Tootoo this year who is actually a solid linemate and he will be valuable. There was even a thread on the mainboard talking about physical bottom 6 players and fans of other teams mentioned Abdelkader quite a bit.

Hes forced to act like the only tough guy on the team because the team has been so soft. There is no wy a guy like Abdelkader should be stepping up a weight class and fighting Ryane Clowe. When he fights guys like Ott and Lappiere he does fine.
How is Ryane Clowe "up" a weight class from Abdelkader? They're basically the same size height and weight wise. Clowe is probably stronger.

at least according to nhl.com, they're 1 inch and 6 lbs apart.


Last edited by Frk It: 08-12-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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08-12-2012, 03:41 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
How is Ryane Clowe "up" a weight class from Abdelkader? They're basically the same size height and weight wise. Clowe is probably stronger.

at least according to nhl.com, they're 1 inch and 6 lbs apart.
I agree, Clowe and Abdelkader are in the same weight class (or very close to it) but Clowe does have WAY more experience fighting.

Abs has a total of 13 nhl fights to Clowe's 54.

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08-12-2012, 03:42 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
How is Ryane Clowe "up" a weight class from Abdelkader? They're basically the same size height and weight wise. Clowe is probably stronger.

at least according to nhl.com, they're 1 inch and 6 lbs apart.
In hockey, weight class is as much about experience and ability as it is about height and weight.

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08-12-2012, 05:06 PM
  #84
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Why is Abby still unsigned?

Because if Kenny signed Abby there would not be room for the inevitable signing of Homer.

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08-12-2012, 05:37 PM
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Speaking of which what the **** are we going to do with 16 forwards?

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08-12-2012, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Speaking of which what the **** are we going to do with 16 forwards?
Good question.

I hope the answer isn't: waivers.

Btw, is that Brunner on your avatar?

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08-12-2012, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Good question.

I hope the answer isn't: waivers.

Btw, is that Brunner on your avatar?
Yes it is, doing his variation of the "Datsyuk"

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08-12-2012, 06:56 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
How is Ryane Clowe "up" a weight class from Abdelkader? They're basically the same size height and weight wise. Clowe is probably stronger.

at least according to nhl.com, they're 1 inch and 6 lbs apart.
Fighting in hockey isnt about size and weight, those are just terms thrown around to describe how good a fighter is. Tie Domi wasnt a light weight.

And Ryane Clowe is up a weight class because he can absolute kill legit enforcers in fights. Abdelkader did better then Parros did against him. The wings are so soft, and Abdelkader actually has the balls to step up to a guy whose usually busy fighting guys like Parros, Bissonette etc. But if youre questioning weight classes I'm guessing you dont know a whole lot about fighting in hockey


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08-12-2012, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Fighting in hockey isnt about size and weight, those are just terms thrown around to describe how good a fighter is. Tie Domi wasnt a light weight.

And Ryane Clowe is up a weight class because he can absolute kill legit enforcers in fights. Abdelkader did better then Parros did against him. The wings are so soft, and Abdelkader actually has the balls to step up to a guy whose usually busy fighting guys like Parros, Bissonette etc. But if youre questioning weight classes I'm guessing you dont know a whole lot about fighting in hockey

I think it's silly to call a good fighter a heavyweight regardless of their size. That was more of my point.

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08-12-2012, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I think it's silly to call a good fighter a heavyweight regardless of their size. That was more of my point.
Well thats the way it goes in the NHL and hockey in general. You may find it funny but its the way people distinguish fighters in hockey.

Abdelkader is a solid middlweight guy that can take on the pests so he should be kept. Tootoo is tougher and can actual handle some heavyweight guys every now and then. Smith same thing, he can take on heavyweights and he'll handle himself but he wont be the toughest dman in the league.

A wings team with Abdelkader, Tootoo and Smith all playing regular minutes is a fairly tough team, especially by red wing standards. Say what you want about Abdelkader and how he only tries to hit, but he lays some big ones every single year. People just make **** up to make him seem worse then he is.

I think an issue with that is us wing fans are used to having the hardest hitter in the league patrolling the blue line where hits are different. Abdelkader isnt the hardest hitting forward in the league but hes still a very hard hitter, especially for a forward. Not everyone will hit like Kronwall and it seems thats what all wings fans want physical players to do or else theyre useless

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08-12-2012, 07:44 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Well thats the way it goes in the NHL and hockey in general. You may find it funny but its the way people distinguish fighters in hockey.

Abdelkader is a solid middlweight guy that can take on the pests so he should be kept. Tootoo is tougher and can actual handle some heavyweight guys every now and then. Smith same thing, he can take on heavyweights and he'll handle himself but he wont be the toughest dman in the league.

A wings team with Abdelkader, Tootoo and Smith all playing regular minutes is a fairly tough team, especially by red wing standards. Say what you want about Abdelkader and how he only tries to hit, but he lays some big ones every single year. People just make **** up to make him seem worse then he is.

I think an issue with that is us wing fans are used to having the hardest hitter in the league patrolling the blue line where hits are different. Abdelkader isnt the hardest hitting forward in the league but hes still a very hard hitter, especially for a forward. Not everyone will hit like Kronwall and it seems thats what all wings fans want physical players to do or else theyre useless
The problem is even with his hitting he doesn't really seem to make all that much of an impact out there. Most of his shifts are pretty forgettable for a guy who is supposed to hit people and cause chaos.

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08-12-2012, 07:48 PM
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The way I see it, Abby's body hasn't caught up with the way he tries to play. He'll have a breakout season soon enough. Let's just give him a free pass till it happens like most of us did with Filpulla.

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08-12-2012, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Well thats the way it goes in the NHL and hockey in general. You may find it funny but its the way people distinguish fighters in hockey.

Abdelkader is a solid middlweight guy that can take on the pests so he should be kept. Tootoo is tougher and can actual handle some heavyweight guys every now and then. Smith same thing, he can take on heavyweights and he'll handle himself but he wont be the toughest dman in the league.

A wings team with Abdelkader, Tootoo and Smith all playing regular minutes is a fairly tough team, especially by red wing standards. Say what you want about Abdelkader and how he only tries to hit, but he lays some big ones every single year. People just make **** up to make him seem worse then he is.

I think an issue with that is us wing fans are used to having the hardest hitter in the league patrolling the blue line where hits are different. Abdelkader isnt the hardest hitting forward in the league but hes still a very hard hitter, especially for a forward. Not everyone will hit like Kronwall and it seems thats what all wings fans want physical players to do or else theyre useless
Hopefully Tootoo rubs off on Abdelkader's game. Tootoo can take on guys his own size and bigger. Abby gets mauled by guys his own size. Tootoo, like Kronwall, delivers those vicious hits that change momentum and energy levels in games. I'd like to see Abby do that more often, and I think he is plenty capable.

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08-12-2012, 08:48 PM
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The problem is even with his hitting he doesn't really seem to make all that much of an impact out there. Most of his shifts are pretty forgettable for a guy who is supposed to hit people and cause chaos.
Abdelkader has forgettable shifts because a) even when he plays tough he has no backup

b) his line was garbage last year. Emmerton and Homer shouldnt have even been on the team. When he was paired with Helm they had shifts where they ran all over the other teams defense, I expect him to do the same now that he has some back up and another strong forechecker like Tootoo
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Hopefully Tootoo rubs off on Abdelkader's game. Tootoo can take on guys his own size and bigger. Abby gets mauled by guys his own size. Tootoo, like Kronwall, delivers those vicious hits that change momentum and energy levels in games. I'd like to see Abby do that more often, and I think he is plenty capable.
He definitely will. Abdelkader played his roughest hockey when he was paired up with May. Tootoo being one of the biggest pains in the league will suck Abdelkader into more fights and keep him more fired up physically.

Also he wont automatically be the toughest forward so he'll have to keep pushing himself to be better.

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08-12-2012, 08:51 PM
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Tootoo and Gator = new bash brothers

Honestly, I think Gator is a talented player that offers a lot. Like others, I've been disappointed in his progress. If he wasn't a 1st round pick. I think the criticism would be less. Still think he has the potential to be a 2nd line player in the right situation, but most likely he's a bottom 6'er on a good team like the Wings.

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08-12-2012, 09:05 PM
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Gotta wonder if a potential Bouwmeester trade isn't holding back this signing. I could see us trying to throw him into a deal.

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08-12-2012, 09:39 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
Tootoo and Gator = new bash brothers

Honestly, I think Gator is a talented player that offers a lot. Like others, I've been disappointed in his progress. If he wasn't a 1st round pick. I think the criticism would be less. Still think he has the potential to be a 2nd line player in the right situation, but most likely he's a bottom 6'er on a good team like the Wings.
Gator is a 2nd round pick.

He showed that 2nd line potential at the worlds. He still flashes it from time to time. Find it interesting when Z is out he still slides up instead of Helm, so the Wings still believe it. Another thing I think has plagued him to a certain extent is we saw the scorer locally at Michigan State and he scored a couple of timely Stanley Cup playoff goals, people expected more of that. I still think he has some promising attributes, will be curious as he played the Homer role at State on the power play and could see him getting run there if Cleary, Bert and Franzen aren't getting the job done.

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08-12-2012, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Well thats the way it goes in the NHL and hockey in general. You may find it funny but its the way people distinguish fighters in hockey.

Abdelkader is a solid middlweight guy that can take on the pests so he should be kept. Tootoo is tougher and can actual handle some heavyweight guys every now and then. Smith same thing, he can take on heavyweights and he'll handle himself but he wont be the toughest dman in the league.

A wings team with Abdelkader, Tootoo and Smith all playing regular minutes is a fairly tough team, especially by red wing standards. Say what you want about Abdelkader and how he only tries to hit, but he lays some big ones every single year. People just make **** up to make him seem worse then he is.

I think an issue with that is us wing fans are used to having the hardest hitter in the league patrolling the blue line where hits are different. Abdelkader isnt the hardest hitting forward in the league but hes still a very hard hitter, especially for a forward. Not everyone will hit like Kronwall and it seems thats what all wings fans want physical players to do or else theyre useless
Add Ericsson to the list. The guy can hold his own.

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08-12-2012, 09:50 PM
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Add Ericsson to the list. The guy can hold his own.
Buddies with an AHL enforcer that said he throws harder punches than Downey.

Big E is more than just reach, when he throws down he rarely loses and he hurts the other guy often.

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08-12-2012, 10:26 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Abdelkader has forgettable shifts because a) even when he plays tough he has no backup

b) his line was garbage last year. Emmerton and Homer shouldnt have even been on the team. When he was paired with Helm they had shifts where they ran all over the other teams defense, I expect him to do the same now that he has some back up and another strong forechecker like Tootoo


He definitely will. Abdelkader played his roughest hockey when he was paired up with May. Tootoo being one of the biggest pains in the league will suck Abdelkader into more fights and keep him more fired up physically.

Also he wont automatically be the toughest forward so he'll have to keep pushing himself to be better.
I agree, and I think this has gone overlooked. Posters like to bring up that 20+ points is not enough for Abby, despite him outscoring most fourth liners in the NHL. Further, he has had almost the same point totals as Helm despite having played with with Emmerton, Homer, May, Maltby, etc. He is doing just as much as the third line players with half of the support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
Tootoo and Gator = new bash brothers

Honestly, I think Gator is a talented player that offers a lot. Like others, I've been disappointed in his progress. If he wasn't a 1st round pick. I think the criticism would be less. Still think he has the potential to be a 2nd line player in the right situation, but most likely he's a bottom 6'er on a good team like the Wings.
I think he has the potential to be a 2nd line player like Cleary did/does. Abby isn't overly skilled, but he can create space, be physical in the corners, and he has good vision. However, like Cleary, he cannot carry Emmerton and Homer to 30+ point seasons.

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