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Rangers Prospect Poll: #17

View Poll Results: Who is our #17 prospect?
G Scott Stajcer 11 15.94%
G Cameron Talbot 7 10.14%
RW Thomas Spelling 20 28.99%
G Jason Missiaen 1 1.45%
LW Ryan Bourque 26 37.68%
D Peter Ceresnak 4 5.80%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:23 AM
  #26
Beacon
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The ECHL is easily better than any of the junior leagues. Half the junior guys never make the ECHL as they grow up. While the ECHL does not have the top-end talent that juniors have, it is much deeper and has experienced adult players, not a bunch of kids who still dont know the basics and dont have adult bodies.

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08-11-2012, 02:03 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
The ECHL is easily better than any of the junior leagues. Half the junior guys never make the ECHL as they grow up. While the ECHL does not have the top-end talent that juniors have, it is much deeper and has experienced adult players, not a bunch of kids who still dont know the basics and dont have adult bodies.
Then how come his numbers went up going to a stronger league? The Junior leagues have more talented players than the ECHL. You don't see team's top picks playing in the ECHL, but you'll find them in junior hockey. Playing in the ECHL is like a death note for your NHL career. You do not see many, if any players that played in the ECHL playing at the NHL level. Junior hockey is easily better than the ECHL. That talent in the junior leagues is much higher.

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08-11-2012, 02:44 PM
  #28
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Why on Earth are people voting for Bourque? The guy has no shot at making the NHL. He doesn't even seem like he can handle the AHL.

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08-11-2012, 03:03 PM
  #29
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The ECHL, overall, is superior to any of the CHL leagues.

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08-11-2012, 04:58 PM
  #30
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Why on Earth are people voting for Bourque? The guy has no shot at making the NHL. He doesn't even seem like he can handle the AHL.
Apparently, neither do the other options.

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08-11-2012, 05:39 PM
  #31
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Apparently, neither do the other options.
Spelling has a good deal of upside, is 6'1", and will be playing in the SEL this year.

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08-11-2012, 08:26 PM
  #32
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Add Ilya Gorokhov.

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08-11-2012, 08:28 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Spelling based on the fact that's advancing at a faster pace than some of the other choices on this list.

Borque is a real question mark as a prospect at this point.

Ceresnak does not impress me at all. Never has. Not one time have I seen him and said "I can see this kid making it."
2nd Tier HAS to end after Boo.

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08-11-2012, 09:26 PM
  #34
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Having watched roughly just as much Ceresnak as Noreau last year, I'm wondering what it is that Noreau does so much better than Ceresnak, other than fight and hit harder?

I think Ceresnak is the better defensive player, though he may not be physical enough. He also has just one year in North America under his belt right now, so I'm interested to see how he continues to adjust.

Offensively, neither does much outside of shoot hard. Noreau might be a bigger pain in the ass to play against, but I saw Ceresnak stop more opposition advances up the ice per game than Noreau.

It's so easy for people to fall in love with big guys who hit hard, but I like the chances of making it to the NHL better for guys who can make the simple, fundamental plays consistently.

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08-11-2012, 09:57 PM
  #35
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2nd Tier HAS to end after Boo.

Agree. Hrivik, McColgan and Calle are third tier.

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08-12-2012, 05:54 PM
  #36
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Agree. Hrivik, McColgan and Calle are third tier.
Definitely.

After Boo you start getting into some bigger question marks.

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08-12-2012, 05:57 PM
  #37
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So...are we going to get to #18? feels like this has been stickied forever.

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08-12-2012, 06:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Having watched roughly just as much Ceresnak as Noreau last year, I'm wondering what it is that Noreau does so much better than Ceresnak, other than fight and hit harder?

I think Ceresnak is the better defensive player, though he may not be physical enough. He also has just one year in North America under his belt right now, so I'm interested to see how he continues to adjust.

Offensively, neither does much outside of shoot hard. Noreau might be a bigger pain in the ass to play against, but I saw Ceresnak stop more opposition advances up the ice per game than Noreau.

It's so easy for people to fall in love with big guys who hit hard, but I like the chances of making it to the NHL better for guys who can make the simple, fundamental plays consistently.
Make no mistake, this isn't clash of the titans. At this point we're into more of our longshot prospects.

Personally, I like Noreau better for several reasons:
I think defensively they are about even.

Ceresnak just looks like an average junior player right now. And those extra elements Noreau has - size, fighting, the pain in the ass factor, may just be enough to give him an edge.

Ceresnak not only doesn't impress me with his ability to bring it every night, he doesn't seem to have too much to bring. Frankly, he looks to be a dime a dozen player.

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08-12-2012, 06:16 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Then how come his numbers went up going to a stronger league? The Junior leagues have more talented players than the ECHL. You don't see team's top picks playing in the ECHL, but you'll find them in junior hockey. Playing in the ECHL is like a death note for your NHL career. You do not see many, if any players that played in the ECHL playing at the NHL level. Junior hockey is easily better than the ECHL. That talent in the junior leagues is much higher.
The Q is a higher scoring league than the ECHL.

In terms of depth, the ECHL is much better than the CHL. Adding the fact they are adults.

And oh yeah I guess 490 players who played in the NHL after the ECHL is "not many, if any" http://www.echl.com/aliu-becomes-490...ch-nhl-p176990

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08-12-2012, 07:05 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
The Q is a higher scoring league than the ECHL.

In terms of depth, the ECHL is much better than the CHL. Adding the fact they are adults.

And oh yeah I guess 490 players who played in the NHL after the ECHL is "not many, if any" http://www.echl.com/aliu-becomes-490...ch-nhl-p176990
So riddle me this: How come teams generally send players back to the CHL for an overage season instead of putting them in the ECHL? Wouldn't you want them playing against adults to see where they end up instead of an inferior league?

That 490 is anyone that played at least one game in the NHL. While it's a nice number, a lot of those players haven't been players that can stick in the NHL. Luckily for goalies, the ECHL isn't as bad because the fact only 4 goalies in an organization can play in the NHL and AHL. Other positions, it's tough to come out of. You really defy the odds coming from the ECHL to the NHL for a sustained amount of time.

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08-12-2012, 07:17 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
So riddle me this: How come teams generally send players back to the CHL for an overage season instead of putting them in the ECHL? Wouldn't you want them playing against adults to see where they end up instead of an inferior league?

That 490 is anyone that played at least one game in the NHL. While it's a nice number, a lot of those players haven't been players that can stick in the NHL. Luckily for goalies, the ECHL isn't as bad because the fact only 4 goalies in an organization can play in the NHL and AHL. Other positions, it's tough to come out of. You really defy the odds coming from the ECHL to the NHL for a sustained amount of time.
You said earlier in the thread sending Stajcer back to the OHL rolls over a year on his contract, you've already answered your own question.

Yeah most guys who played in the ECHL don't usually turn out to be good players at the NHL level but it doesn't mean if you're in the ECHL then your hopes at NHL are gone. But it is a lot more common for goalies.

The ECHL is an overall better standard than any of the CHL leagues, there is no doubt about that. The high end talent in juniors (the Yakupov's and the Murray's for example) is better than the top players in the ECHL but the junior teams do not even come close depth-wise

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08-12-2012, 08:02 PM
  #42
Beacon
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Then how come his numbers went up going to a stronger league? The Junior leagues have more talented players than the ECHL. You don't see team's top picks playing in the ECHL, but you'll find them in junior hockey. Playing in the ECHL is like a death note for your NHL career. You do not see many, if any players that played in the ECHL playing at the NHL level. Junior hockey is easily better than the ECHL. That talent in the junior leagues is much higher.

Top picks play in juniors when they are 18/19. If a player makes it to the ECHL, he's already 20+, meaning further along in his development. It's ok to play in a lower league at 18, but not at 22.

While the juniors have some top picks, most of their players NEVER wind up making the ECHL because they NEVER become good enough for it. They either stop playing hockey or play in borderline-pro leagues.

But even if you compare the top players, a top-end ECHLer at the age of 27 is better than a #5 draft pick at the age of 18. The fact that he's older means he won't improve much and won't make the NHL, but it also means he's more experienced, physically stronger, emotionally more mature to handle adversity better, and less likely to make stupid mistakes.

The ECHL is easily better than the juniors.

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08-12-2012, 08:20 PM
  #43
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Make no mistake, this isn't clash of the titans. At this point we're into more of our longshot prospects.

Personally, I like Noreau better for several reasons:
I think defensively they are about even.

Ceresnak just looks like an average junior player right now. And those extra elements Noreau has - size, fighting, the pain in the ass factor, may just be enough to give him an edge.

Ceresnak not only doesn't impress me with his ability to bring it every night, he doesn't seem to have too much to bring. Frankly, he looks to be a dime a dozen player.
Yeah, I don't think Ceresnak is anything special, either. I'm not expecting stardom from either player. I just like Ceresnak's positioning, his stick checking, and his consistency in his own zone. I think he's stronger in all three areas than Noreau, and I value those characteristics more than hard hitting and fighting.

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08-12-2012, 11:26 PM
  #44
Edge
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Yeah, I don't think Ceresnak is anything special, either. I'm not expecting stardom from either player. I just like Ceresnak's positioning, his stick checking, and his consistency in his own zone. I think he's stronger in all three areas than Noreau, and I value those characteristics more than hard hitting and fighting.
Fair enough. At this point it's really going to come down to traits that one values over other traits.

If Ceresnek makes the kind of strides I've seen from Noreau, I might take a greater liking to him. But right now, I just don't see it.

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