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Flyers 'step up' offer for Bouwmeester

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08-13-2012, 12:21 PM
  #451
ORYX
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Bouwmeester is a #2 defenseman who has played the role of #1 and 2 defenseman his whole career. Put him on the top pair of a defense that has another top pair guy and you will see how good he is.
You are probably right. Problem is Flyers have Coburn for that role on a much better contract.

How has JBO looked in the playoffs? I'm not sure anyone since his Novice days could accurately answer that question.....

JBO is good, I agree. But he isnt good enough to justify the money and the trading chips. Personally I wouldnt even want to trade Read+ for him because of the value balance and Flyers loss of Jagr and JVR on the wing.

They have lost alot and gained a little. Losing more to add something that doesnt address a need outside of a warm body is a knee jerk reaction to injuries that may not even affect the team once a game is played. See what I'm saying?

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08-13-2012, 12:21 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Oh my good god, just give up the Couturier for Jaybo talk. It's a joke. You are never getting Couturier for Jaybo.
A very well thought-out, eloquent response to a legitimate question. You should write professionally.

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08-13-2012, 12:21 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
You evidently believe Jbo is a top pairing D-man on a team looking to contend? I don't. You should see my point. (I believe he is a minute eater, top pairing d-man on a mediocre to average team, not one that wants the holy grail, thus parting with assets which could be used to acquire a bonafide, top pairing guy for a stop gap is poor asset management)

Why spend picks and players on a guy who isnt an improvement on what you've got slated to come back, potentially before the season even starts? Yes Jbo is better then Mesz, but IMO adding another 2nd pairing d-man isnt the answer.

99% of Flyer fans will tell you its redundant to add a 2nd/3rd pairing dman when the they already have arguably 6. If they want to add via trade, make the investment worth it and go for a top guy. If you want a stop gap, theres stop gaps available at no cost other then a contract.

Jbo is not the answer, they'd probably miss the playoffs if they brought him in....
jbo is a top pairing d-man on any team in the nhl pretty much. he's better than any defenceman the flyers have on their roster at this point. plus you guys have injuris. to say that he's not what the flyers need is hilarious. and obviously by your assessment, you haven't spent a lot of time watching one of the best skaters in the nhl do his thing.

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08-13-2012, 12:21 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
I don't see how Philly can outbid other teams for these defenseman without putting Couturier into the equation. If I were a Feester I would demand Couturier from the Flames since I don't need to deal Jay. He is a FLame for 2 more years unless osmeone convinces them to trade him.
comments like this are just dumb.

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08-13-2012, 12:22 PM
  #455
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I'm just curious how much Philly is bidding right now with their injuries and if the bidding war is Detroit vs. Philly.

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08-13-2012, 12:22 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
ya, you're right, roszival and coliacovo are equal to jbo
Yeah, no one said that.

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08-13-2012, 12:22 PM
  #457
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This thread is exactly why deals are so rare in the NHL today. People believe so strongly in their own players that they are unreasonable when it comes to trying to find common ground. Flyers fans want a top pair defenseman who will eat up 25 minutes a game but are not willing to give up anything of value to get one. There were only 11 guys who played that much each game last season, which tells you just how rare a player that is. You have to give to get, but based on the number of untouchables there are in Philadelphia, which is anything of tangible value, a deal will likely not be made and Philadelphia will have to go with the blueline they have and hope Bryzgalov finds his confidence over the summer. It's a gamble, because if the team gets off to a rocky start you may see the Flyers' hand forced and a defenseman brought in. The problem there is cost at that point will only be higher.

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08-13-2012, 12:23 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
comments like this are just dumb.
Why is that exactly?

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08-13-2012, 12:23 PM
  #459
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we see what the Flames fans want for Bouwmeester, I wonder what Flames management is looking for him?
I would have to think the Flames hold onto him and then if they are looking to deal him they do so at the trade deadline when there are more teams bidding for his services.
right now the Flyers cant afford to trade a top 9 forward. They would be hurting the depth up front to add to the backend. doesnt make much sense. If this was last offseason and the Flyers still had JVR and Jagr I would think the Flyers would look to move a top 9 guy.
I would probably see if Calgary would be interested in a combo of prospects and picks right now. If Calgary is looking for NHL ready forwards for Bouwmeester right now I would say the Flyers are out of the mix IMO

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08-13-2012, 12:24 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
A very well thought-out, eloquent response to a legitimate question. You should write professionally.
To be fair, he cold probably write for broadcast News. He was simple, concise, and presented only facts.

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08-13-2012, 12:26 PM
  #461
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philly is not trading courtier for Jay Bo, but they have plenty of O without him either way.

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08-13-2012, 12:26 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
This thread is exactly why deals are so rare in the NHL today. People believe so strongly in their own players that they are unreasonable when it comes to trying to find common ground. Flyers fans want a top pair defenseman who will eat up 25 minutes a game but are not willing to give up anything of value to get one. There were only 11 guys who played that much each game last season, which tells you just how rare a player that is. You have to give to get, but based on the number of untouchables there are in Philadelphia, which is anything of tangible value, a deal will likely not be made and Philadelphia will have to go with the blueline they have and hope Bryzgalov finds his confidence over the summer. It's a gamble, because if the team gets off to a rocky start you may see the Flyers' hand forced and a defenseman brought in. The problem there is cost at that point will only be higher.
No. All this thread shows is that Flyers fans don't want to give up top assets for J-Bo. We don't really want him at all, actually. If he can be had dirt cheap, fine then. But otherwise, who would want that.

And Gio is a more attractive piece to most teams, but he's still not the answer to our #1 D problem.

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08-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
To be fair, he cold probably write for broadcast News. He was simple, concise, and presented only facts.
A fair statement.

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08-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Why is that exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
I don't see how Philly can outbid other teams for these defenseman without putting Couturier into the equation. If I were a Feester I would demand Couturier from the Flames since I don't need to deal Jay. He is a FLame for 2 more years unless osmeone convinces them to trade him.
maybe this?

Feester can demand Couturier, and he has every right to ask for him if he feels the Flyers are desperate for a defenseman who can play top pairing minutes. I just cant see Holmgren trading Couturier for more then just one reason which have already been explained.

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08-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
jbo is a top pairing d-man on any team in the nhl pretty much. he's better than any defenceman the flyers have on their roster at this point. plus you guys have injuris. to say that he's not what the flyers need is hilarious. and obviously by your assessment, you haven't spent a lot of time watching one of the best skaters in the nhl do his thing.
He is a #2 on most teams. He would be the number 1 in Philly, does that mean we should settle for him? Not at all. Coburn is very capable of playing the number 2 role, with a better #1 in the fold then JBO.

Yea, he's a great skater, got it. Yea his contract blows, got that too. Never played and NHL or Junior playoff game, giving up a major youth asset for him? Not in my playbook.

You calgary posters are confusing the lack of desire from Flyer fans to deal Couturier for him not because we think he sucks, but their injuries may be healed by the time season starts, and he isnt the type of player they want to slot into the number one position.

Flyers dont want an inexperienced marginal 1-2 guy, then want a bonafid number 1. Period. Not a number 1 on their current roster, but a guy who fits into the number 1 spot on most teams.

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08-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
maybe this?

Feester can demand Couturier, and he has every right to ask for him if he feels the Flyers are desperate for a defenseman who can play top pairing minutes. I just cant see Holmgren trading Couturier for more then just one reason which have already been explained.
So you do realize that you just said exactly what I did but when I say it you claim it is dumb, right? Show me where I said the Flyers would trade Couturier for him or where I say they should.

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08-13-2012, 12:35 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
He is a #2 on most teams. He would be the number 1 in Philly, does that mean we should settle for him? Not at all. Coburn is very capable of playing the number 2 role, with a better #1 in the fold then JBO.

Yea, he's a great skater, got it. Yea his contract blows, got that too. Never played and NHL or Junior playoff game, giving up a major youth asset for him? Not in my playbook.

You calgary posters are confusing the lack of desire from Flyer fans to deal Couturier for him not because we think he sucks, but their injuries may be healed by the time season starts, and he isnt the type of player they want to slot into the number one position.

Flyers dont want an inexperienced marginal 1-2 guy, then want a bonafid number 1. Period. Not a number 1 on their current roster, but a guy who fits into the number 1 spot on most teams.
Good luck getting that player via trade without giving up a major youth asset... I wouldn't trade Couturier for Bouwmeester and am not saying the Flyers should, but if you want a guy who is a bonafide #1 then SC is probably going back the other way. Like what the Kings did when they traded Schenn for Richards, you do remember that one right? I'm sure Holmgren said "If you want Richards give us Schenn+"

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08-13-2012, 12:37 PM
  #468
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What would the Red Wings have to give then? Just curious as I assume you're a Wings fan and here apparently in the hunt.
I'd give up Filppula/Tatar/Tvrdon, Quincey, and a First. That's just me.


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08-13-2012, 12:39 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
I'm just curious how much Philly is bidding right now with their injuries and if the bidding war is Detroit vs. Philly.
There likely isn't a bidding war, both probably inquired and are waiting for the new cba.

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08-13-2012, 12:40 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I'd give up Filppula/ Tatar/ Tvrdon, Quincey, and a First. That's just me.
That beats anything I'd be willing to give up.

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08-13-2012, 12:41 PM
  #471
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It often gets lost on HFB for some reason, but just because a guy's value is X, doesn't mean every team in the league has the positional depth, cap room, roster balance, or need to meet that value. And if they say that's the case, it doesn't mean they're unreasonable or under/over valuing someone.

Bottom line: Bouwmeester only makes sense for the Flyers if he comes at a bargain. That may very well mean no deal ends up being made, but just because someone makes that point doesn't mean they're being unreasonable.


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08-13-2012, 12:41 PM
  #472
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Good luck getting that player via trade without giving up a major youth asset... I wouldn't trade Couturier for Bouwmeester and am not saying the Flyers should, but if you want a guy who is a bonafide #1 then SC is probably going back the other way. Like what the Kings did when they traded Schenn for Richards, you do remember that one right? I'm sure Holmgren said "If you want Richards give us Schenn+"
You obviously havent been reading my posts in their entirely......

When have I said I want that without giving up?

I said dont give up assets that can be used to acquire a bonafide #1 for a marginal top pairing player that is simply a stop gap, not to mention no playoff experience on an overpaid contract.

JBO is not their guy, at that price. Its that simple really.

Read the entirely of my posts instead of responding after seeing one thing you disagree with, you might find I'm not trying to trade pocket lint for a gold bar, but that I'm not willing to trade young assets for a stop gap, especially when the season may not even start on time, giving the injured Flyers more time to get back healthy. Thats a knee jerk reaction at a time when there is ZERO urgency to make a trade.

You mention Feaster doesnt need to trade JBO. News for yea, Flyers have stop gap options in FA, season likely wont start on time, and its mid august (jesus lord its mid august, wtf), they dont have any urgency to trade for him unless the price is right from their perspective.

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08-13-2012, 12:45 PM
  #473
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
I'm sure Holmgren said "If you want Richards give us Schenn+"
A top line, entering prime proven winner at every level player, signed to a 10 year cap friendly contract is far and beyond more valuable then a has never played 1 playoff game, mediocre top pairing d-man on an overpaid contract that expires in years kind of player. No question.

JBO is good, but not that good.

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08-13-2012, 12:45 PM
  #474
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In the end...it come down to this:

Are the Flyers better with Couts + say a Rosival or Coli or

adding a Bouwmeester but costing Couts. It's fairly easy to guess the 1st one is the better choice for Philly.
Flyer fans have done a great job of pumping Couturier up. Can we wait until this 20 year old scores more than 27 points on the highest scoring team in the league before we make him something extra special. Is he strong defensively? It appears so. But defensive specialists never get the kind of love that this guy is getting. Calm down just a bit.

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08-13-2012, 12:51 PM
  #475
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Flyer fans have done a great job of pumping Couturier up. Can we wait until this 20 year old scores more than 27 points on the highest scoring team in the league before we make him something extra special. Is he strong defensively? It appears so. But defensive specialists never get the kind of love that this guy is getting. Calm down just a bit.
To be fair, not many Defensive specialists are as highly touted from an OFFENSIVE perspective prior to their draft. He was used primarily in defensive situations, no PP time and on the 4th line the majority of the year. Give him time.

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