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Flyers 'step up' offer for Bouwmeester

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Old
08-13-2012, 01:51 PM
  #476
GetThePuckOut
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I'm a Flames fan, and a Couturier fan, and there's no way in hell that the Flames are getting Couturier. He's gonna be a #1 C in the league and Philly's not giving him up for anything. Schenn will go way before Couturier does, and I wouldn't hold my breath for that either.

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08-13-2012, 01:53 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
To be fair, not many Defensive specialists are as highly touted from an OFFENSIVE perspective prior to their draft. He was used primarily in defensive situations, no PP time and on the 4th line the majority of the year. Give him time.
He didn't score a lot of goals this year but the ones that he did score, he showed a pretty dirty wrist shot on a lot of them. He's a good playmaker too.

I think his production will spike drastically, just like it did in his second year in Drummondville when he was given a bigger role.

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08-13-2012, 01:56 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
It often gets lost on HFB for some reason, but just because a guy's value is X, doesn't mean every team in the league has the positional depth, cap room, roster balance, or need to meet that value. And if they say that's the case, it doesn't mean they're unreasonable or under/over valuing someone.

Bottom line: Bouwmeester only makes sense for the Flyers if he comes at a bargain. That may very well mean no deal ends up being made, but just because someone makes that point doesn't mean they're being unreasonable.
I don't understand this. A top pair defenseman is the Flyers biggest need. Why wouldn't they be willing to pay for it? His contract is fine if he eats 25 minutes a night playing at a high level. Without a deal the Flyers D is not strong enough for them to go deep in the spring. They will need to give up a good offensive asset (their strength) to get a good defensive player (their weakness). Unless you think JBO isn't a first pairing Dman this whole string is silly.


Last edited by spiny norman: 08-13-2012 at 02:01 PM. Reason: qep
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08-13-2012, 01:56 PM
  #479
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It is totally fair to not want to part with certain players to acquire other players. However, Im not sure I understand why some Flyers fans feel they don't have the depth to trade Couts for JBow. I think most people would agree that with a few pieces added on either side, the value if not that far off, and Philly does need help on D.

At center, Philly is stacked with Briere, Giroux, Schenn, Couts, Talbot, Rinaldo and prospects like Laughton & cousins. Something is going to have to give to give all of them the playing time they need/want to develop properly. The top 6 wingers all seem to be solid as well, but the bottom 6 could be improved.

It seems to me like a trade involving JBow and a winger from Calgary maybe stempniak or Tim Jackman (who would fit Philly nicely), for someone like Couts would make a lot of sense. Strengthen the wing in the top 9 and add a 1/2D and it would cost depth at center, where there is a logjam of depth developing. Of course, other pieces may be needed to get the value right.

Granted I am a Flames fan and would love to see Couts in Calgary, but that is how I see it.

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08-13-2012, 01:57 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
To be fair, not many Defensive specialists are as highly touted from an OFFENSIVE perspective prior to their draft. He was used primarily in defensive situations, no PP time and on the 4th line the majority of the year. Give him time.
I agree give him time. He may turn out to be a perennial all star but he apparently will not be even considered in any deal and I think that's overdoing it a little.

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08-13-2012, 02:11 PM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I don't understand this. A top pair defenseman is the Flyers biggest need. Why wouldn't they be willing to pay for it? His contract is fine if he eats 25 minutes a night playing at a high level. Without a deal the Flyers D is not strong enough for them to go deep in the spring. They will need to give up a good offensive asset (their strength) to get a good defensive player (their weakness). Unless you think JBO isn't a first pairing Dman this whole string is silly.
Because once JvR and Jagr moved on, the forward depth was depleted greatly and the prospect pool is not deep except with non-top shelf D-man types, which are needed on the roster right now. It's not about meeting some price tag, it's about having enough expendable assets to avoid opening up another hole to close an exisiting one that Bouwmeester only partially closes.

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08-13-2012, 02:16 PM
  #482
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So would people have traded Couturier for Carle?? he's a top 2 defenseman that eats 25 minutes a night.

Some Calgary fans are hillarious. You would of given Boumeester away at the start of the year, now that there is a demand for defenseman you think you are going to get blue chip prospects back. hillarious.

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08-13-2012, 02:16 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by flamesfan04 View Post
At center, Philly is stacked with Briere, Giroux, Schenn, Couts, Talbot, Rinaldo and prospects like Laughton & cousins. Something is going to have to give to give all of them the playing time they need/want to develop properly. The top 6 wingers all seem to be solid as well, but the bottom 6 could be improved.

It seems to me like a trade involving JBow and a winger from Calgary maybe stempniak or Tim Jackman (who would fit Philly nicely), for someone like Couts would make a lot of sense. Strengthen the wing in the top 9 and add a 1/2D and it would cost depth at center, where there is a logjam of depth developing. Of course, other pieces may be needed to get the value right.

Granted I am a Flames fan and would love to see Couts in Calgary, but that is how I see it.
You can't treat "offense" and "defense" like they're in a vacuum. The Flyers defensive issues were as attributable to the forwards as they were the defensemen last season, if not more. Which is why trading the best defensive forward - not to mention a center in a division with a ton of great offensive centers - doesn't make sense if you're trying to address defensive shortcomings.

And I don't see the problems fitting Giroux/Schenn/Couturier/Talbot on a roster. Rinaldo is a non-factor, Schenn can play on the wing, and Cousins and Laughton aren't ready and Calgary fans don't seem to want futures in a trade. I'll worry about my "too many centers on the 2014 roster" issues in 2014.

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08-13-2012, 02:18 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I don't understand this. A top pair defenseman is the Flyers biggest need. Why wouldn't they be willing to pay for it? His contract is fine if he eats 25 minutes a night playing at a high level. Without a deal the Flyers D is not strong enough for them to go deep in the spring. They will need to give up a good offensive asset (their strength) to get a good defensive player (their weakness). Unless you think JBO isn't a first pairing Dman this whole string is silly.
The Flyers depth if greatly overstated. With the loss of Jagr and JVR (with no immediate replacements for either besides a healthy Schenn), the Flyers are in no position to pay the required price for a top pairing defender.

Trading Schenn or Couturier or even Simmonds for Bouwmeester would significantly change the dynamic of the entire team. Instead of having three balanced lines that can score, we suddenly would only have two, and in the event of injury, we would be forced to play an extremely weak third line with an AHL quality fourth line. Suddenly our 'star studded offense' would seem extremely pedestrian.

Trading a forward for a defender makes a lot less sense for the Flyers then people tend to think. Especially after the JVR/Schenn trade, we simply do not have the numbers to lose any impact forwards without getting an impact forward in return.

Like a poster said on the previous page, it's not just that the Flyers wont give up what it would take for Bouwmeester, it's that they are not able to give it up. It would be a much safer bet to sign Colaiacovo and keep the rest of the team the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flamesfan04 View Post
It is totally fair to not want to part with certain players to acquire other players. However, Im not sure I understand why some Flyers fans feel they don't have the depth to trade Couts for JBow. I think most people would agree that with a few pieces added on either side, the value if not that far off, and Philly does need help on D.

At center, Philly is stacked with Briere, Giroux, Schenn, Couts, Talbot, Rinaldo and prospects like Laughton & cousins. Something is going to have to give to give all of them the playing time they need/want to develop properly. The top 6 wingers all seem to be solid as well, but the bottom 6 could be improved.

It seems to me like a trade involving JBow and a winger from Calgary maybe stempniak or Tim Jackman (who would fit Philly nicely), for someone like Couts would make a lot of sense. Strengthen the wing in the top 9 and add a 1/2D and it would cost depth at center, where there is a logjam of depth developing. Of course, other pieces may be needed to get the value right.

Granted I am a Flames fan and would love to see Couts in Calgary, but that is how I see it.
Briere is not a long term option for the team anymore. Year to year he's a great player to have, but sacrificing a core piece of the Flyers future (Schenn/Couturier) would be foolish. Talbot is better suited on the wing, Rinaldo has never been a center, and Laughton/Cousins are at least a year or two away from even making the lineup in a bottom six role. It's not worth the risk when you know you have players who can contribute now and in the future.

After trading Richards and Carter, the Flyers main goal has been to build a long term contender. No need to sacrifice those goals just yet to make a panic trade. We'd rather stay the course for now and see what may open up in the future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
So you do realize that you just said exactly what I did but when I say it you claim it is dumb, right? Show me where I said the Flyers would trade Couturier for him or where I say they should.
Just ignore them. Flyers fans tend to ignore the entirety of posts when they see Couturier's name involved on the trade boards. I wish more people understood that saying "Team X would ask for Player Y" does not mean that Team Z is expected to oblige them. That's a lesson that some people on the trade boards need to learn.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
So would people have traded Couturier for Carle?? he's a top 2 defenseman that eats 25 minutes a night.

Some Calgary fans are hillarious. You would of given Boumeester away at the start of the year, now that there is a demand for defenseman you think you are going to get blue chip prospects back. hillarious.
Relax. Not many people are expecting the Flyers to give up Couturier. If Calgary is to trade Bouwmeester, they'd be looking for something that improves their team. Gustafsson+picks or whatever does not do that. There's nothing wrong with asking for a blue chip player. It doesnt mean that they will get it, but it just means that they have no reason to trade Bouwmeester for anything less.

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08-13-2012, 02:18 PM
  #485
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I'm just curious how much Philly is bidding right now with their injuries and if the bidding war is Detroit vs. Philly.
I hope the only real interest the Predators have is to drive the price up for Philly and/or Detroit. In the end, I'd hope we wouldn't give up enough to get him.

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08-13-2012, 02:20 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by flamesfan04 View Post
It is totally fair to not want to part with certain players to acquire other players. However, Im not sure I understand why some Flyers fans feel they don't have the depth to trade Couts for JBow. I think most people would agree that with a few pieces added on either side, the value if not that far off, and Philly does need help on D.

At center, Philly is stacked with Briere, Giroux, Schenn, Couts, Talbot, Rinaldo and prospects like Laughton & cousins. Something is going to have to give to give all of them the playing time they need/want to develop properly. The top 6 wingers all seem to be solid as well, but the bottom 6 could be improved.

It seems to me like a trade involving JBow and a winger from Calgary maybe stempniak or Tim Jackman (who would fit Philly nicely), for someone like Couts would make a lot of sense. Strengthen the wing in the top 9 and add a 1/2D and it would cost depth at center, where there is a logjam of depth developing. Of course, other pieces may be needed to get the value right.

Granted I am a Flames fan and would love to see Couts in Calgary, but that is how I see it.
Ok, so then a package around Laughton and/or Cousins for JBo?

Seriously though, why trade a player like Couturier in 2012 when there MIGHT BE a "too many players, not enough ice time" problem in 2014 (and that would only be a 1 year thing since that's Briere's last year under contract). If Couturier develops like everyone in Philly thinks he can then he becomes 10x more valuable as a trade asset at that point.

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08-13-2012, 02:23 PM
  #487
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Philly already had a soft D-man that played over 23 minutes a game. They decided not to sign him FOR FREE. Why give up assets for another one that is paid more??

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08-13-2012, 02:27 PM
  #488
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bouwmeester + backlund (has the potential to be a top 6 center if he has decent wingers) + 3rd round pick 2013 for couturier.

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08-13-2012, 02:31 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by calgaryflames1212 View Post
bouwmeester + backlund (has the potential to be a top 6 center if he has decent wingers) + 3rd round pick 2013 for couturier.
Asked and answered a few pages back - No. If your goal is to get better on defense, trading your best defensive forward is not the answer. Backlund + a 3rd is not a really valuable package, especially to a team that has a full compliment of Centers.

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08-13-2012, 02:32 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by calgaryflames1212 View Post
bouwmeester + backlund (has the potential to be a top 6 center if he has decent wingers) + 3rd round pick 2013 for couturier.
How many times does Philly have to say NO to trading Couturier????????

I have an idea!!!! Maybe we should all reverse things!!!!! Philly WANTS to trade Couturier!!!! Is J-Bow the best we can get for him????

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08-13-2012, 02:35 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
So would people have traded Couturier for Carle?? he's a top 2 defenseman that eats 25 minutes a night.

Some Calgary fans are hillarious. You would of given Boumeester away at the start of the year, now that there is a demand for defenseman you think you are going to get blue chip prospects back. hillarious.
How is Jaybo for a blue chip prospect "hillarious"??

I do agree that Couts is too much btw...but Jaybo is worth something decent at least.

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08-13-2012, 02:36 PM
  #492
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Couturier is not getting traded for Bouwmeester.

That means that Detroit's alleged Filpulla+ offer is better than anything that Philly can come up with. So it will likely be Detroit that gets him, if he gets traded at all.

Most likely though, Feaster waits to see what Bob Hartley can get out of him.

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08-13-2012, 02:37 PM
  #493
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Relax. Not many people are expecting the Flyers to give up Couturier. If Calgary is to trade Bouwmeester, they'd be looking for something that improves their team. Gustafsson+picks or whatever does not do that. There's nothing wrong with asking for a blue chip player. It doesnt mean that they will get it, but it just means that they have no reason to trade Bouwmeester for anything less.
Wow, the first Flyer fan on this thread that finally had a well thought out, well articulated and two way response to the thread.

You are 100% right in all of you said. Calgary is not trading from a point of weakness, they'd like to get a massive return by taking advantage of holes other teams need to fill. Philly will probably need defensive help this year, and it doesn't matter how many times their fans try to sugar coat it. Calgary has a big name defenceman testing the trade waters.

It doesn't make sense for Calgary to ask for Read, a b prospect or/and a first or second pick. It's a step backwards. Suggesting these trades are pointless, you have to be willing to give up something of value to get it back.

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08-13-2012, 02:37 PM
  #494
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How many times does Philly have to say NO to trading Couturier????????
Prolly as many times as they said Richards would never be traded.

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08-13-2012, 02:42 PM
  #495
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Prolly as many times as they said Richards would never be traded.
That's right because Richards supposedly/rumored being on a bad stance with the ownership from supposed/rumored partying (and I mean supposed/supposedly/rumored), and 26 years old. Couturier has had one full season, he's 19, and everyone in management and ownership loves him.

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08-13-2012, 02:42 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
Couturier is not getting traded for Bouwmeester.

That means that Detroit's alleged Filpulla+ offer is better than anything that Philly can come up with. So it will likely be Detroit that gets him, if he gets traded at all.

Most likely though, Feaster waits to see what Bob Hartley can get out of him.
The only people alleging Detroit has offered Filppula+ are in this thread.

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08-13-2012, 02:43 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I agree give him time. He may turn out to be a perennial all star but he apparently will not be even considered in any deal and I think that's overdoing it a little.
Oh I'd trade him, just not for JBO.

To everyone. Learn to read. Because I feel JBO isnt worth Couturier, doesnt mean I wouldnt trade him for a D-man.

This is the 12th time I've had to remind people of that, I say it every post. Start reading the entire post and not until you disagree then respond......

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08-13-2012, 02:47 PM
  #498
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Relax. Not many people are expecting the Flyers to give up Couturier. If Calgary is to trade Bouwmeester, they'd be looking for something that improves their team. Gustafsson+picks or whatever does not do that. There's nothing wrong with asking for a blue chip player. It doesnt mean that they will get it, but it just means that they have no reason to trade Bouwmeester for anything less.
Wow, the first Flyer fan on this thread that finally had a well thought out, well articulated and two way response to the thread.

You are 100% right in all of you said. Calgary is not trading from a point of weakness, they'd like to get a massive return by taking advantage of holes other teams need to fill. Philly will probably need defensive help this year, and it doesn't matter how many times their fans try to sugar coat it. Calgary has a big name defenceman testing the trade waters.

It doesn't make sense for Calgary to ask for Read, a b prospect or/and a first or second pick. It's a step backwards. Suggesting these trades are pointless, you have to be willing to give up something of value to get it back.

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08-13-2012, 02:49 PM
  #499
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My two Cents.

With Giroux couts and schenn you have 3 young top 6 centers. Yes its great to have more but you have 3 for 2 slots. Considering you just traded for another schenn Couts is the guy that could potentially move.

You have to give too get. I like Jbo and on a better team i think he could get back too 10 goals 40 points and his durability its unquestionable. Is Philly in enough of a win now mode? only PM knows.

As much as philly fans hate the idea of moving Couts for a dman. He is in the position your deepest at and you have a very similar blue chipper that will want the same slot in your top 6. Just cause someone can play wing doesnt mean he will want too.

As a neutral fan i am not invested at all but i dont feel the value is that off.

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08-13-2012, 02:50 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
How is Jaybo for a blue chip prospect "hillarious"??

I do agree that Couts is too much btw...but Jaybo is worth something decent at least.
I think everyone was surprised by that. Not a fair comparison.

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