HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Buffalo - Winnipeg

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-13-2012, 12:32 PM
  #51
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 37,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
From what I can gather Cormier will be about ready for a 4th line role this year, not a 3rd (I have to go by what I read here, as I havnt seen him play). I am of the oppinion that if the sabres are going to get a defensive center it should be a vet to use as a stopgap until the younger guys are ready to step in. Cormier doesn't fit into that category, therefor not really a need. Id prefer a Dom Moore type signing, or a trade for a similar player. I also believe that he would make us WAY too young at center...
I prefer other solutions as well. Doesn't change the fact that the value is Off (22 yr old goal scorer for 22 yr old bottom 6er), while the need is technically there (Bottom 6 center who can win draws)

Basically... the opposite of what I quoted you as saying

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 12:37 PM
  #52
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 37,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Kind of agree with you. value is only close if you assume the likelyhood of potential is different, which in this case I do.

I think Cormier is considerably more likely(lets say 70% chance to make it, 30% chance to bust) to become a good-to-better bottom 6 defensive specialist. He is also safe, as in even if he doesn't become a fantast defensive forward, he is almost a guarantee to be able to play a bottom six checking/energy role.

It seems Luke Adam is seen as less likely to fill his role as an average top 6 winger (should we say 50% chance?). He is also not a "safe" prospect as, going off sentiment in this thread, if he's unable to make it as a top 6 winger, he will not be able to fill a lesser need at all.

If you operate on the assumption of those two things
, then I think the values there.

If you operate on ceiling alone, then no, the jets would add. That being said, IMO you'd be foolish to only deal with ceiling.
I disagree with the assumption

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 12:37 PM
  #53
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I prefer other solutions as well. Doesn't change the fact that the value is Off (22 yr old goal scorer for 22 yr old bottom 6er), while the need is technically there (Bottom 6 center who can win draws)

Basically... the opposite of what I quoted you as saying
As I said I don't know anything about the player in question, beyond what little I have read here, so I'm trying to stay away from value comments as I do not have enough information to make a concrete comment on it.


Either way, we can both agree that the sabres do not make this deal.

HiddenInLight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 12:50 PM
  #54
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 37,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
As I said I don't know anything about the player in question, beyond what little I have read here, so I'm trying to stay away from value comments as I do not have enough information to make a concrete comment on it.


Either way, we can both agree that the sabres do not make this deal.
I'd be interested in finding a way that made the deal work. Can we get Klingberg involved?

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 01:08 PM
  #55
GerbeSonOfGloin
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,021
vCash: 500
Value's not bad, though it favors Winnipeg, but we don't need another young, unproven center, particularly one who comes off a bit like a project. Ruff doesn't need another center to babysit.

What would it take to get Slater? I know Jets fans won't love the idea of moving him, but I'm just curious.

GerbeSonOfGloin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 01:20 PM
  #56
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I disagree with the assumption
which is a completely valid concern.

That assumption is the only way value is close.

That said, i really do feel there is considerably less risk involved with cormier becoming a usefull piece as opposed to adam becoming a usefull piece. its the quintessential tradeoff of risk vs reward.

Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 01:30 PM
  #57
Flair Hay
Registered User
 
Flair Hay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,616
vCash: 50
It seems like Sabres fans feel like they could get for for Adam even if he quickly became redundant there. If Adam could be a right winger on the second line for us this year or next (Wellwood, Poni on one year deals) I can't see how Winnipeg wouldn't take the chance. Oh well. Good OP though.

Flair Hay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 01:34 PM
  #58
Paradise
Individual thinker
 
Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Waiverpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
I'd do the deal from a Jets perspective. The most I'd add is a 5th rounder. If that's not enough, then I move on.

Cormier + 2013 5th

for

Luke Adam

Paradise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 01:39 PM
  #59
Thee GM
.
 
Thee GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 993
vCash: 500
This makes sense for both teams, with the Jets getting some immediate help and Buffalo getting a player with more upside in the future.

Thee GM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 02:07 PM
  #60
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thee GM View Post
This makes sense for both teams, with the Jets getting some immediate help and Buffalo getting a player with more upside in the future.
I think you have this backwards

Cormier is almost assuredly 4thline ready, and could even end up with 2nd pairing pk time. Problem is he max's out as a third liner.

Adam on the other hand is top 6 or minor league player. He's got the upside to be a more offensive weapon, but carries a bigger risk of being completely useless to the team (if he ends up as the "classic tweener", too good of offense for the minors, not enough for the majors, and not enough D-zone play to play in the bottom 6)


As for the previous discussion of adding Klingberg I'm not sure how I feel about it. Klingberg seems almost to be the exact middleground between these two players. He's got enough energy and defensive play to stick as 4th/3rd liner while still having an outside shot at being capable of playing in the top 6 (while that's admittedly gotten less likely).

If you switch Cormier to Klingberg I think it becomes less interesting for the jets. The difference in skillset of whats going out to whats coming in doesn't make up for the risk factor IMO, though Klingberg is probably more replaceable within the Jets system (Machacek, Lowry, Kosmachuk, Sutter, Telegin all project similarly)


Last edited by Grind: 08-13-2012 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Error in wording
Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 02:19 PM
  #61
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 11,617
vCash: 500
And Klingberg as more than a sweetener doesn't help Buffalo because Cormier playing center is the actual basis of the deal.

PS- if this deal happens, Ott, Kaleta, Cormrier? Oh lawd...

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 02:26 PM
  #62
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
And Klingberg as more than a sweetener doesn't help Buffalo because Cormier playing center is the actual basis of the deal.

PS- if this deal happens, Ott, Kaleta, Cormrier? Oh lawd...
Klingberg is definitly not a sweetner, his value is likely higher then cormiers (in a vaccuum, roles/organizational needs aside, in reality its probably similar, maybe a touch lower, but not enough for it to be a 2 for 1 deal that's for sure)


Last edited by Grind: 08-13-2012 at 02:27 PM. Reason: expansion on klingbrs worth.
Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 03:31 PM
  #63
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,176
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
hell yes

JOHNBOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 03:32 PM
  #64
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 37,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
And Klingberg as more than a sweetener doesn't help Buffalo because Cormier playing center is the actual basis of the deal.

PS- if this deal happens, Ott, Kaleta, Cormrier? Oh lawd...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Klingberg is definitly not a sweetner, his value is likely higher then cormiers (in a vaccuum, roles/organizational needs aside, in reality its probably similar, maybe a touch lower, but not enough for it to be a 2 for 1 deal that's for sure)
Cormier+Klingberg
for
Adam+Brennan

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 03:58 PM
  #65
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Cormier+Klingberg
for
Adam+Brennan
Don't think we'd be too into moving both.

What's a Brennan? Sounds like a bottom pairing offensive Dman...wouldn't be much use with Postma looking like he'll likely occupy that exact role.

I

Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 04:00 PM
  #66
tsujimoto74
Moderator
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 11,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Don't think we'd be too into moving both.

What's a Brennan? Sounds like a bottom pairing offensive Dman...wouldn't be much use with Postma looking like he'll likely occupy that exact role.

I
Yeah, that's a pretty apt description of Brennan. He's pretty much known for offense and, to a lesser extent, hitting.

tsujimoto74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 04:03 PM
  #67
Tra La La
Registered User
 
Tra La La's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Buffalo, New York
Country: Ireland
Posts: 4,713
vCash: 500
A potential second line player (Adam) for a potential fourth line player (Cormier )? Something isn't working there for me. Adam is a better asset then that.

Tra La La is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 05:28 PM
  #68
Flair Hay
Registered User
 
Flair Hay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,616
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tra La La View Post
A potential second line player (Adam) for a potential fourth line player (Cormier )? Something isn't working there for me. Adam is a better asset then that.
Calling Cormier a potential 4th liner isn't really fair. He's an NHL ready 4th line center now. He's solid at faceoffs (saw a thread by BUF fan weeks ago asking for faceoff help) and he has a good amount of sandpaper in his game. Good defensively at every level do far. Just not proven.

If you guys want to hang on to Adam that works too because Cormier can generally play all three fwd positions, and we'll find some time for him somewhere when inevitable injuries occur.

Just figured it'd be worth taking a chance on a second liner when we just drafted a similar player in Sutter.

Flair Hay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 05:34 PM
  #69
Sabreality
Registered User
 
Sabreality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,189
vCash: 50
wouldnt mind seeing Adam & Tropp for Cormier & Klingberg

Adam/Cormier has been discussed, and maybe Tropp is redundant (with Machacek there), but i see him having more upside as a PF banger that can slide up and down the lineup, whereas i really see Klingberg being the more responsible D guy.

not a huge difference in either pairs upside/roster value, could even it out a bit

Sabreality is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 07:31 PM
  #70
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
wouldnt mind seeing Adam & Tropp for Cormier & Klingberg

Adam/Cormier has been discussed, and maybe Tropp is redundant (with Machacek there), but i see him having more upside as a PF banger that can slide up and down the lineup, whereas i really see Klingberg being the more responsible D guy.

not a huge difference in either pairs upside/roster value, could even it out a bit
really don't know much about tropp but his HF bio reads almost exactly like Klingbergs..

Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 07:44 PM
  #71
tsujimoto74
Moderator
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 11,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
really don't know much about tropp but his HF bio reads almost exactly like Klingbergs..
Don't know much about Klingberg, but Tropp's a speedy, gritty player. Ended last season playing his off wing (LW) with Hodgson and Vanek to add some sandpaper to that line. He has occasional flashes of nice offensive skill, but hasn't shown a consistent ability to produce in the NHL.

tsujimoto74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 08:49 PM
  #72
Beerz
Registered User
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 18,684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
really don't know much about tropp but his HF bio reads almost exactly like Klingbergs..
Needless to say... I'd rather keep Tropp.


Beerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2012, 08:56 PM
  #73
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
 
veganhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,368
vCash: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Don't know much about Klingberg, but Tropp's a speedy, gritty player. Ended last season playing his off wing (LW) with Hodgson and Vanek to add some sandpaper to that line. He has occasional flashes of nice offensive skill, but hasn't shown a consistent ability to produce in the NHL.
Basically an exact description of Klingberg IMO. Speedy and gritty with occasional flashes of nice offensive skill sums him up very nicely.

veganhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.