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2012-2013 Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 12/5)

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Old
08-12-2012, 05:27 PM
  #226
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A username named 'Brock' posted an article on Ranger OHL prospects:

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2012...k-rangers.html

Good read.

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08-13-2012, 10:17 AM
  #227
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Minnesota has so many D on the roster. Seven returning players and the two freshmen in Skjei and Reilly. I read one of the D can play at upfront too. A few of the other returnees will have to fight for their icetime this season. Injuries do happen during the season.

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08-13-2012, 02:17 PM
  #228
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Chris Peters

Quote:
J.T. Miller – The lone forward in camp with World Junior experience looked every bit the veteran in camp. Miller showed flashes of his play-making ability that helped make him the 15th overall selection by the Rangers in 2011. He has terrific speed, immense physical strength and displayed a maturity in his game that I had not seen in the past. Miller can score, but he showed terrific vision and patience. One thing I really like about Miller is that he can play at a high level at varying paces, but seemed to excel in slowing things down in the offensive zone in order to make the right play and allow things to set up a bit. As long as he’s healthy, he’s top-six on this club.
Peters projected team

Quote:
Gaudreau – Galchenyuk – Miller
Lucia – Kuraly – Noesen
Kerdiles – Trocheck – Biggs
Pietila – Fogarty – Hartman
Matteau
On the bubble: Bardreau, Boyd

Reilly – Jones
Gostisbehere – Trouba
Skjei – Murphy
McCabe
On the Bubble: Grzelcyk, Haar, Sieloff

Gibson
Sparks
On the Bubble: Stolarz
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012...final-wrap-up/

One or two players not invited to the camp play their way onto to the team. Boo Nieves still has a chance.

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08-13-2012, 02:56 PM
  #229
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Ooh, another person "over-rating" Miller.

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08-13-2012, 04:29 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Ooh, another person "over-rating" Miller.
But but but you don't understand. His junior stats weren't all pretty like St. Croix's.

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08-13-2012, 05:31 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
But but but you don't understand. His junior stats weren't all pretty like St. Croix's.
Miller's all around game is a lot better than St.Croix's. At the development camp, Miller was the roughly the best player out there & St.Croix was no where to be heard of on the ice.

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08-13-2012, 06:53 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Joey Bones View Post
Miller's all around game is a lot better than St.Croix's. At the development camp, Miller was the roughly the best player out there & St.Croix was no where to be heard of on the ice.
Did you actually miss the sarcasm there? Really?

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08-13-2012, 07:20 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Did you actually miss the sarcasm there? Really?
It's tough to tell. I think he was just adding to what you meant in your sarcasm through a serious supporting opinion of Miller.

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08-13-2012, 08:16 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
But but but you don't understand. His junior stats weren't all pretty like St. Croix's.
Don't see what MSC has to do with it (the prospect poll just showed what our board thinks of their respective ranking in the organization)

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08-13-2012, 08:20 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
Don't see what MSC has to do with it (the prospect poll just showed what our board thinks of their respective ranking in the organization)
I think it has a lot to do with who will actually make it to the NHL and why. Too many fans have hopped on the MSC train because he put up a lot of points. That doesn't mean anything if you can't translate it to the NHL. He was unimpressive in the prospect camp MSC. Miller was very impressive. He has an all around game, the size, and ability to compete for a top 9 NHL spot right now. He could very well push himself into a top 6 spot. He could end up being a better version of dubinsky only because dubinsky still hasn't been able to figure out what type of player he is and is not. MSC puts up top 6 player stats in the WHL but he might not ever make it to the NHL.

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08-13-2012, 08:26 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
Don't see what MSC has to do with it (the prospect poll just showed what our board thinks of their respective ranking in the organization)
There is a devoted sect of posters who go out of their way to put down Miller because of his junior numbers, while pumping up St. Croix.

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08-13-2012, 11:13 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
There is a devoted sect of posters who go out of their way to put down Miller because of his junior numbers, while pumping up St. Croix.
Yeah, prospect board/trade board is a cesspool out there. They think Miller is a disappointment, why? Because he didn't put up great OHL numbers.

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08-14-2012, 02:30 AM
  #238
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Stats in any other league other that the NHL mean NADA when it comes to future success in the NHL. Period. That being said, I think Miller fits the mold perfectly for where we may need to slot him in the future in the NYR lineup. 3rd line center. Big, mobile, gritty, 2 way player with some offensive upside. Flank him next year with Hagelin (for speed) and one of Fast/Thomas ( for finish) and we have an excellent homegrown 3rd line that will be fast, tough, efficient and affordable. Replacing The Pack line which wound up in Columbus (2/3s)! Making the 4th line a place to be for goons, giants and ghastly assassins,as it should be... lol

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Old
08-14-2012, 04:23 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I'm a bit skeptical that Skjei (or a number of those other players Sonier listed, for that matter) will be ready next season. 2 years sounds like a much more reasonable guess, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I think it has a lot to do with who will actually make it to the NHL and why. Too many fans have hopped on the MSC train because he put up a lot of points. That doesn't mean anything if you can't translate it to the NHL. He was unimpressive in the prospect camp MSC. Miller was very impressive. He has an all around game, the size, and ability to compete for a top 9 NHL spot right now. He could very well push himself into a top 6 spot. He could end up being a better version of dubinsky only because dubinsky still hasn't been able to figure out what type of player he is and is not. MSC puts up top 6 player stats in the WHL but he might not ever make it to the NHL.
Yeah, good points.

With time, when watching prospects, you really learn just how much the NHL is about playing hockey in three zones and how little it is about top end, or specialized, abilities. I think Zetterberg and Datsyuk are great examples. I saw alot of both early in their careers, and neither really had top end abilities. Very smart and talented players, of course. But not "1.5 PPG in the CHL" type of players. Their strength was to create chances, not to do something with the chances created. Z especially was weak in that area, and neither could shoot the puck to save their life... Marc Staal is another example, just a darn fine hockey player. No real hitting or flashy offense. McIs and Bobby Sangs scouting reports pwns Staals scouting report on paper.

And it's so obvious when watching the game, but so hard obviously to put in practise. Who can think of a player in the NHL who dominates the play but isnt a star because he can't bury the puck or make the last pass? Andy McDonald? Nah... Then there are a few examples of the opposite. Players who are flawed overall, but are stars because tremendous top end abilities. But they are very rare.

Its a great sign when a pick is playing for his country and doing well in international tournaments, like Skeij and Neeves. And Fogarty? Because that's what it is about, taking your game to the next level and contributing. A national team coach won't pick any free passengers.

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08-14-2012, 05:09 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
What's your opinion on Miller in the AHL next year versus the OHL?
I don't think it makes too much of a difference, personally. He's a good player, and I think he's going to get better either way.

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08-14-2012, 07:39 AM
  #241
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The Rangers have Richards,Stepan,Callahan,Nash,Kreider and Hagelin. That's 6 forwards. Add Miller in 13-14. Top 6 forwards in Richards,Stepan,Callahan,Nash and Kreider. Hagelin is the utility player. He can play in the top 6/excellent top 9 forward. Put Miller in the Hagelin mix for 13-14. That's 7 forwards. That's the nucleus of the team upfront in the new CBA era. Rangers management can fill the holes around them. They have enough good forwards in the system where you hope 2 of them become NHL contributors. Thomas,Yogan,Fast,Lindberg,etc.

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08-14-2012, 09:35 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Yeah, prospect board/trade board is a cesspool out there. They think Miller is a disappointment, why? Because he didn't put up great OHL numbers.
I only follow our prospects board and I just don't remember "MSC sect" putting down Miller - I thought Miller was almost universally supported by the Rangers board members (I might have missed it).

That's why I didn't see a reason to put down MSC in comparision to Miller - I mean, one was a pick #15 and the other was selected in the 2nd hundreds! So, could anyone argue that St Croix was a bad pick in 4th round or that he just had not an outstanding season in his own right with Oil Kings? Every prospects has his own development path and in the context of where he was picked and how he's developing - MSC is just fine.

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08-14-2012, 10:57 AM
  #243
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I'll be the first to admit I have seen VERY little of Miller...what i've seen, has not been all that impressive. He looks like a decent 3rd liner.

but, sample size is important, so i'll defer to the ppl that watch him regularly.

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08-14-2012, 03:22 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
There is a devoted sect of posters who go out of their way to put down Miller because of his junior numbers, while pumping up St. Croix.
Ahhhh yes, they keyboard kings of HFBoards who look only at stats and probably have never watched a junior game in their lives.

Tom Sestito, the plug who had a cup of coffee this year with the Flyers and who Richards uttered the hilarious "this is fantasy camp" chirp at during 24/7 outscored James Neal at the same age (19) on their 06/07 Plymouth Whalers team. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...011452007.html

There's thousands of similar examples I can bring up in the last decade. You want your prospects to put up points and factor in offensively, but you have to realize there's so much you can't tell about a player by looking at the stats sheet.

St. Croix is a long term prospect. 3-4 years away. Miller might be ready to step in right now.

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08-14-2012, 03:33 PM
  #245
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Tom Sestito scored 42 goals in a junior season? And outscored James Neal? LOL.

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08-14-2012, 03:35 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers have Richards,Stepan,Callahan,Nash,Kreider and Hagelin. That's 6 forwards. Add Miller in 13-14. Top 6 forwards in Richards,Stepan,Callahan,Nash and Kreider. Hagelin is the utility player. He can play in the top 6/excellent top 9 forward. Put Miller in the Hagelin mix for 13-14. That's 7 forwards. That's the nucleus of the team upfront in the new CBA era. Rangers management can fill the holes around them. They have enough good forwards in the system where you hope 2 of them become NHL contributors. Thomas,Yogan,Fast,Lindberg,etc.
Your assuming Gaborik is gone already this year?
And let΄s see the final cap numbers are before we decide what "the new CBA era" means. No?
You may very well be right on both points though...

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08-14-2012, 04:01 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
I only follow our prospects board and I just don't remember "MSC sect" putting down Miller - I thought Miller was almost universally supported by the Rangers board members (I might have missed it).

That's why I didn't see a reason to put down MSC in comparision to Miller - I mean, one was a pick #15 and the other was selected in the 2nd hundreds! So, could anyone argue that St Croix was a bad pick in 4th round or that he just had not an outstanding season in his own right with Oil Kings? Every prospects has his own development path and in the context of where he was picked and how he's developing - MSC is just fine.
Not from Rangers fans, you are correct that almost all of us are high on him.

It's the opposing teams' uneducated fans. They assume Miller is a disappointment due to his lack of production in the CHL. During the time of the Rick Nash rumors, Rangers fans were scoffed for putting him as a top prospect and most posters on the Nash rumor thread claimed he's 'an average prospect at best'.

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08-14-2012, 04:36 PM
  #248
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Tom Sestito scored 42 goals in a junior season? And outscored James Neal? LOL.
Clearly means he's better than James Neal. Just like MSC is better than Miller.

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Old
08-14-2012, 05:53 PM
  #249
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St.Croix has to get some size & get better at his all around game to make the Rangers. Sure he puts up numbers in juniors, but lacks the physical presents that the NYR organization wants & craves for. If he can add size & bring a more fierce player in him out & still be capable of putting up 100+ points, look for him to be the newest top prospect in Ranger land.

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08-15-2012, 10:39 AM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Joey Bones View Post
St.Croix has to get some size & get better at his all around game to make the Rangers. Sure he puts up numbers in juniors, but lacks the physical presents that the NYR organization wants & craves for. If he can add size & bring a more fierce player in him out & still be capable of putting up 100+ points, look for him to be the newest top prospect in Ranger land.
Good post.
I judge prospects by how they fare against top competition at/or close to their age group. That's why the WJC is a good barometer of prospects development and POTENTIAL at the next level. Usually players that perform well in the WJC, USUALLY graduate to the next level and ultimately play and produce at some level in the NHL. However, for every Kreider and Stepan there is a Dube and Dawes, and so on.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if you're of a small stature, you better be able to play big and get to the dirty areas to make things happen. I was pretty high on MSC with a lot of things being said about him from posters who had seen him play regularly.
Well, I saw MSC play in the recent Memorial Cup (3 games), and I was totally not impresse by him at all. Never mind NOT even being close to being the top offensive player on his team, he looked lazy and disinterested in all three zones. I hope he was injured or had some other good reason for his performance that week, but this kid was very average and with his size, I seriously doubt he ever makes it to the NHL. Hope I'm wrong.

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