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Ty Rattie to the Flames

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:02 PM
  #101
Andrei
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Incidentally, here is a list of players on the vaunted St. Louis Blues who scored more goals than an "average" player like Glencross (who only played 67 games) last season:

...


Last edited by Andrei: 08-13-2012 at 05:11 PM. Reason: Too many "incidentally"s!
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Old
08-13-2012, 05:10 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei View Post
Incidentally, here is a list of players on the vaunted St. Louis Blues who scored more goals than an "average" player like Glencross (who only played 67 games incidentally) last season:

...
Lol.

Truth hurts.

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08-13-2012, 05:13 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei View Post
Incidentally, here is a list of players on the vaunted St. Louis Blues who scored more goals than an "average" player like Glencross (who only played 67 games) last season:

...
Incidentally here is the list of Calgary Flames players that saw a playoff game last year.

....

Or finished top 5 in Selke and Norris voting

....

Or won the Jennings

...

Or won the Jack Adams

....

Or won GM of the year

....

Or posted one of the lowest GA totals by a team in decades

...

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBeard View Post
Incidentally here is the list of Calgary Flames players that saw a playoff game last year.

....

Or finished top 5 in Selke and Norris voting

....

Or won the Jennings

...

Or won the Jack Adams

....

Or won GM of the year

....

Or posted one of the lowest GA totals by a team in decades

...
Lol.

Truth hurts.

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBeard View Post
Incidentally here is the list of Calgary Flames players that saw a playoff game last year.

....

Or finished top 5 in Selke and Norris voting

....

Or won the Jennings

...

Or won the Jack Adams

....

Or won GM of the year

....

Or posted one of the lowest GA totals by a team in decades

...
And how exactly are any of those an argument that makes Glencross an average player?

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:17 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBeard View Post
Incidentally here is the list of Calgary Flames players that saw a playoff game last year.

....

Or finished top 5 in Selke and Norris voting

....

Or won the Jennings

...

Or won the Jack Adams

....

Or won GM of the year

....

Or posted one of the lowest GA totals by a team in decades

...
Sorry, what is the point exactly? How is this relevant to the question "is Curtis Glencross an average NHL hockey player?" How is it relevant to the broader question "do the Calgary Flames have a pathetic roster?"

Has anyone claimed that St. Louis is not a good team? Has anyone posted that St. Louis has a pathetic roster?

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08-13-2012, 05:18 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBeard View Post
Incidentally here is the list of Calgary Flames players that saw a playoff game last year.

....

Or finished top 5 in Selke and Norris voting

....

Or won the Jennings

...

Or won the Jack Adams

....

Or won GM of the year

....

Or posted one of the lowest GA totals by a team in decades

...
Yeah..has nothing to do with what you replied too.

This thread has basically become a **** fest between flames and blues fans, Jesus.

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:21 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
And how exactly are any of those an argument that makes Glencross an average player?
They have nothing to do with this thread, just like Glencross has nothing to do with this thread, just like personal goal scoring had nothing to do with this thread. That's the point.

FYI Blues had a goal differential of +45 and Calgary had -24. Great argument, bro!!

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by GirouxFlamesFan View Post
This thread has basically become a **** fest between flames and blues fans, Jesus.
I don't even think that is fair. No one has **** on the Blues. No one has even suggested that they aren't a good team. The only thing that derailed this thread were the claims that the Flames have a pathetic roster, which was supported by the claim that Curtis Glencross is a dime-a-dozen average player.

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:26 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Andrei View Post
I don't even think that is fair. No one has **** on the Blues. No one has even suggested that they aren't a good team. The only thing that derailed this thread were the claims that the Flames have a pathetic roster, which was supported by the claim that Curtis Glencross is a dime-a-dozen average player.
What do you expect? 90 percent of HF hates the flames and frankly I dont give a ****. They probably barely watch flames games and are basing claims off of what they read about what others think of the flames.

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:32 PM
  #111
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Different fan bases would be much more civilized towards each other if this site never came to be. I guess that's what happens when you give teenagers internet access and a keyboard. As for the topic on hand, I probably wouldn't mind a Rattie + Cole for Bouwmeester trade. But I also wouldn't mind just keeping Bouwmeester - he might flourish under Hartley.

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:46 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei View Post
Incidentally, here is a list of players on the vaunted St. Louis Blues who scored more goals than an "average" player like Glencross (who only played 67 games) last season:

...
Too true, too true.
I would say though that having your two of your primary scorers out for much of the season (Perron and McDonald) can cause that relatively easily.

I love Glencross and the thought of him on the Blues third line makes me happy, but he would not have scored as many goals as he did should he have been playing on the Blues last year either.

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08-13-2012, 05:47 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
Too true, too true.
I would say though that having your two of your primary scorers out for much of the season (Perron and McDonald) can cause that relatively easily.

I love Glencross and the thought of him on the Blues third line makes me happy, but he would not have scored as many goals as he did should he have been playing on the Blues last year either.
True, I think he was just trying to point our that Glenx was being severely underrated.

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:52 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Since1989 View Post
As for the topic on hand, I probably wouldn't mind a Rattie + Cole for Bouwmeester trade. But I also wouldn't mind just keeping Bouwmeester - he might flourish under Hartley.
To be honest, unless someone simply gifts the Flames way more than they should, keeping Bo would probably be in their best interest.

I do not want the Blues acquiring him because, even though Bo can be a very effective defenseman, I have seen how he does against a very aggressive, physical forecheck and frankly the Blues need someone with either the physicality to stand up to it or the deftness to move through it. Pietrangelo does that, Shatty likely will one day, Russell surprisingly did fairly well against it against the Kings in the playoffs.
Bo does not seem to do well against it. Perhaps that is because the division does not really have anyone (outside of Minnesota at the beginning of the year) with that playing style. The Blues have Nashville in their division and, if they truly believe they are competing for the cup in the near future, the Kings and Coyotes to deal with as well.

Bo's higher dollar salary, the cost of the prospects, and the issues I have observed when he deals with a physical forecheck means he likely is not a good enough fit for the Blues to consider giving up such players as Rattie and Cole at this point in time.

Cole completely falls on his face and...say...Jackman gets old in a hurry...then perhaps they look at Bo after all.

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Old
08-13-2012, 06:12 PM
  #115
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Do threads in this forum ever not degenerate into pissing contests between the two (or more) teams involved?

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08-13-2012, 06:29 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by ParadeOnMarket View Post
Do threads in this forum ever not degenerate into pissing contests between the two (or more) teams involved?
Not usally

Can someone, for the love of all that is holy, close this thing? It was clear the answer was "There is no trade that makes sense for these 2 teams" to most on page 1.

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08-13-2012, 06:29 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ParadeOnMarket View Post
Do threads in this forum ever not degenerate into pissing contests between the two (or more) teams involved?
Nope. Someone eventually says player X sucks, then its countered with the response "no you suck" and then we just free fall.

For the blues, we have a ton of depth everywhere except some very specific needs. When we refuse to sell a piece except for one of those needs, even if the value is close, people just complain that we over rate our players and they aren't any good anyway. Then we come off the rails and are rather aggresive in our own defense(though I gotta say we usually keep it pretty civil before this) and then its the same old song and dance.

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08-13-2012, 06:40 PM
  #118
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From the Flames' perspective, I think that it is very risky, at least optically, to have Rattie as the big peice coming back in any major trade because, if Rattie doesn't work out, the accusation from the media and fans will be that Flames management naively believed that WHL chemistry between Rattie and Bartschi would translate to the NHL and thus overrated Rattie.

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Old
08-13-2012, 06:44 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Dr Robot View Post
Nope. Someone eventually says player X sucks, then its countered with the response "no you suck" and then we just free fall.

For the blues, we have a ton of depth everywhere except some very specific needs. When we refuse to sell a piece except for one of those needs, even if the value is close, people just complain that we over rate our players and they aren't any good anyway. Then we come off the rails and are rather aggresive in our own defense(though I gotta say we usually keep it pretty civil before this) and then its the same old song and dance.
Only so many times we can do the old song and dance before we want to rip someones head of and dance with their corpse, amiright?

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Old
08-13-2012, 06:53 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Reinhart, Gaudreau, Nemisz, Arnold, Ramage, Granlund, Jankowski, Ortio, Irving, Seiloff... solid players with good chances at NHL futures.
Yeah, as a Blues fan, I'm embarrassed by the kiddies who have been coming into the thread and posting about how lousy Calgary's prospect pool is. The Flames have got a decent stable of prospects at every position. The highlighted ones especially, and of course Sven Bärtschi and TJ Brodie, I would take for the Blues' prospect pool in a heartbeat.

Gaudreau has big-league skills, but he's just so dang small...

Glencross is a solid player, and would be a welcome addition to the Blues' third line, and to the second line of most other teams.

That said, I'm not impressed by Bouwmeester, and would not want to pay what the Flames' fanbase thinks he's worth. Would much rather try to swing a deal for Giordano, but that seems to be a non-starter with the Flames' fans, which is understandable.

I'd like to see if there's a deal that could be made for St. Louis home boy Chris Butler and Mikael Backlund. I don't want to say that Rattie is off the table in such a deal, but I'd be very hesitant to give him up...


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08-13-2012, 07:02 PM
  #121
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Players are measured on their own merits. Rattie is a scorer who does his best work in close to the net. The question scouts will ask is will his skill set translate to the NHL? If a team believes that those skills translate they will invest in him. If they don't, they will stay away from him. I personally don't think his skills translate to the NHL. Just my opinion. Would I take Rattie on and hope I was wrong? Only if that cost was extremely low. As a principle in a trade for Bouwmeester, not a chance. As a swap for another iffy prospect, maybe. I see Rattie in the same light I see Ryan Howse. I'd wait and see how Rattie does in the minors for a couple of seasons before making a final judgement on him.

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08-13-2012, 07:12 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Yeah, as a Blues fan, I'm embarrassed by the kiddies who have been coming into the thread and posting about how lousy Calgary's prospect pool is. The Flames have got a decent stable of prospects at every position. The highlighted ones especially, and of course Sven Bärtschi and TJ Brodie, I would take for the Blues' prospect pool in a heartbeat.
You know Calgary has prospect depth when a guy like Michael Ferland doesn't even get mentioned. 47 goals, 97 points last year in the dub, and he absolutely destroys people in fights. If there were more Flames fans on this board, that kid would be getting a lot more recognition than he does.

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08-13-2012, 07:15 PM
  #123
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I looked up Tys games played real quick and compared them to svens.

Without sven
gp=22
G=13
A=21
ppg=1.54

So doing the subtraction
With
Gp=47
g=44
a=43
gaa=1.85

And to compare, I believe sven played all his games with rattie this year.

Sven
gp=47
g=33
a=61
ppg=2

They put up similar points while playing together. Rattie had a little drop off in points while playing without sven. One is a scorer the other is a playmaker, they had a pretty semiotic relationship according to the stats.

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08-13-2012, 07:18 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei View Post
I don't subscribe to HFboards' patented "a bird in the bush is worth two in the hand" method of rating rosters, so I would easily put the Flames roster ahead of (or similar to) the following teams:

Columbus
Edmonton
Anaheim
Dallas
Montreal
NYI
Toronto
Winnipeg
Tampa Bay
I already said Columbus.

Edmonton: They have 4 superstar players right now in Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, and Hall. They just signed Schultz and have good depth players. They may have been bad lately but they're going to be a very good team soon.

Anaheim: They may have missed the playoffs but they still have some very good players. Their first line is among the best in the league (they're apparently trading Ryan but they will get a bunch back for him to make up for it) They also have some very good young players that are coming up in Etem, Smith-Pelley, Fowler, and Sbisa.

Dallas: They don't have much but I would still put them better than Calgary. They still certainly have some star power; Jamie Benn, Louis Eriksson, Brendan Morrow. They picked up Derek Roy this year, and Ryder can put up some goals.

Montreal:They have an all star goalie, some good defenseman coming up. PK Subban is a star player, Josh Gorges is a good player. Jared Tinordi will be very good as well, also their draft pick this year, Galchenyuk.

NYI: They have John Tavares and they're building around him. Their future is no doubt better than Calgarys right now.

Toronto; They have Kessel, Gardiner, JVR, Lupul, and Reimer. I don't like the Leafs but they do have some quality players. Their quality is better than Calgarys quality IMO. (Notice how I'm not adding players like Grabovski and Phaneuf who are equal to someone like Glencross. I didn't even add Kadri who is much better than someone like Brodie for their prospects)

Winnipeg: Evander Kane is what Iginla used to be and if Iginla was young like Evander Kane is than they would be in a much better position. They also have Burmistrov, Ladd and Blake Wheeler (who played one of the best games against the Blues I have ever seen, seriously dominated that game)

Tampa Bay: They have the purest goal scorer in the league right now, and if I'm going to include Iginla and Kipprusof for Calgary than I'm going to include St. Louis and Vinny for Tampa Bay. They were one goal away from making the Stanley Cup Finals only 2 years ago. I think they're definitely in better shape than Calgary going forward.

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Old
08-13-2012, 07:19 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Players are measured on their own merits. Rattie is a scorer who does his best work in close to the net. The question scouts will ask is will his skill set translate to the NHL? If a team believes that those skills translate they will invest in him. If they don't, they will stay away from him. I personally don't think his skills translate to the NHL. Just my opinion. Would I take Rattie on and hope I was wrong? Only if that cost was extremely low. As a principle in a trade for Bouwmeester, not a chance. As a swap for another iffy prospect, maybe. I see Rattie in the same light I see Ryan Howse. I'd wait and see how Rattie does in the minors for a couple of seasons before making a final judgement on him.
What in his game makes you think this will be the case?

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