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Will Datsyuk sign any more NHL contracts?

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Old
08-13-2012, 07:04 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Good thing we signed Sammy and Bertuzzi 2 more years so they can carry the flag after Datsyuk leaves.
Both those contracts expire at the same time as Pavel's.

As for the question, I think Pavel could sign another two-year deal but leaning towards 50/50.

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08-13-2012, 07:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Both those contracts expire at the same time as Pavel's.

As for the question, I think Pavel could sign another two-year deal but leaning towards 50/50.
Right my point was those players will be holding roster spots right until Pavel retires, instead of younger guys getting 1-2 years of experience in that time frame. One of those guys is probably taking Nyquist's spot this year, and one may be holding back Jurco/Jarnkrok next year. If not taking a roster spot, they will most likely be knocking any of those 3 guys down to a smaller role, which isn't great for development either.

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08-13-2012, 07:42 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Right my point was those players will be holding roster spots right until Pavel retires, instead of younger guys getting 1-2 years of experience in that time frame. One of those guys is probably taking Nyquist's spot this year, and one may be holding back Jurco/Jarnkrok next year. If not taking a roster spot, they will most likely be knocking any of those 3 guys down to a smaller role, which isn't great for development either.
Everyone keeps talking (/complaining) about how the old guys are taking roster spots and how we have all these injury prone players, but that's how the NHL is these days...guys get injured.

Nyquist will have plenty of opportunity this coming season to prove if he's ready to be a core player.

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08-13-2012, 07:47 PM
  #29
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Everyone keeps talking (/complaining) about how the old guys are taking roster spots and how we have all these injury prone players, but that's how the NHL is these days...guys get injured.

Nyquist will have plenty of opportunity this coming season to prove if he's ready to be a core player.
This. I don't always agree with the Wings player development, but I like that they make players earn their roles for the most part. Both Nyquist and Brunner will get a chance at some point to slid in the top six, it is on them to prevent it from changing later. Miller was a rotating forward for the first half of last year, he cemented his place in the lineup then even earned a better role on the third line.

It hurts Nyquist's chance at the Calder, but at some point he will be given a chance to run up front, it is on him to make it so the Wings don't want to even think about moving him back out of the top 6.

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08-13-2012, 08:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
This. I don't always agree with the Wings player development, but I like that they make players earn their roles for the most part. Both Nyquist and Brunner will get a chance at some point to slid in the top six, it is on them to prevent it from changing later. Miller was a rotating forward for the first half of last year, he cemented his place in the lineup then even earned a better role on the third line.

It hurts Nyquist's chance at the Calder, but at some point he will be given a chance to run up front, it is on him to make it so the Wings don't want to even think about moving him back out of the top 6.
Being the first call-up and a top 6 player is a pretty big difference. It could cost you 20-30 games of NHL experience. That's pretty valuable in terms of development. Also don't buy into the "earn your icetime" argument when regarding young guys vs veterans. Young guys get put on very tight leashes, while old guys are allowed to ride past reputations during lulls.

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08-13-2012, 08:35 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Being the first call-up and a top 6 player is a pretty big difference. It could cost you 20-30 games of NHL experience. That's pretty valuable in terms of development. Also don't buy into the "earn your icetime" argument when regarding young guys vs veterans. Young guys get put on very tight leashes, while old guys are allowed to ride past reputations during lulls.
It depends on the situation with a lot of guys. I just think at some point Nyquist will get a look in the top 6 this year, he needs to earn staying there not be given growing pain times. That isn't a great strategy in the NHL unless you're a bottom feeder.

Most cases are unique, but for instance I don't want him on the fourth line if that is how he makes the team. Would rather he tear up the AHL and wait for an injury in a better offensive role. Nyquist is a tricky case because he is so apparently NHL ready. But it is on him to earn his ice time, the kid has the talent to get himself promoted or make the most of line juggling to convince people the top 6 is where he belongs. I think he will be there in a hurry but if he starts the year shredding up Grand Rapids or making Helm relevant as an offensive player I am fine with that.

Now check back with me if he is the best player in the preseason and it has become just so obvious that he needs to be in the top 6. I liked his cameo last year but the facts remain one goal and 7 points in 18 games doesn't gift you a first line role before camp. Even Claude Giroux earned his ice time in Philly when he was first called up after being successful in the AHL. Lots of good teams employ this line of thinking.

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08-13-2012, 08:56 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
It depends on the situation with a lot of guys. I just think at some point Nyquist will get a look in the top 6 this year, he needs to earn staying there not be given growing pain times. That isn't a great strategy in the NHL unless you're a bottom feeder.

Most cases are unique, but for instance I don't want him on the fourth line if that is how he makes the team. Would rather he tear up the AHL and wait for an injury in a better offensive role. Nyquist is a tricky case because he is so apparently NHL ready. But it is on him to earn his ice time, the kid has the talent to get himself promoted or make the most of line juggling to convince people the top 6 is where he belongs. I think he will be there in a hurry but if he starts the year shredding up Grand Rapids or making Helm relevant as an offensive player I am fine with that.

Now check back with me if he is the best player in the preseason and it has become just so obvious that he needs to be in the top 6. I liked his cameo last year but the facts remain one goal and 7 points in 18 games doesn't gift you a first line role before camp. Even Claude Giroux earned his ice time in Philly when he was first called up after being successful in the AHL. Lots of good teams employ this line of thinking.
Just interesting to me that we have such a different dynamic at defense and forward right now. Kindl and Smith are slated as starters as of today, while Nyquist who had a great year last year is looking at being the odd man out amongst a group of 16 forwards. I just find it odd.

Also I really don't think preseason determines jack ****, Nyquist looked like a stud during last year's preseason.

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08-13-2012, 09:24 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Just interesting to me that we have such a different dynamic at defense and forward right now. Kindl and Smith are slated as starters as of today, while Nyquist who had a great year last year is looking at being the odd man out amongst a group of 16 forwards. I just find it odd.

Also I really don't think preseason determines jack ****, Nyquist looked like a stud during last year's preseason.
It will mean a lot to our forwards if we enter the season with this amount. Not a huge believer in preseason either, but I think it will be important for a couple guys this year. I also think preseason helped kick Nyquist off to a good start of the season in the AHL and put his name in front of Tatar who seemed to lose confidence. He is another guy I am interested to see in the preseason. I want to see if he builds off the worlds. Realistically there are only so many spots but I think it is important the guys sent down leave a good impression on the team and keep their names high up on the list.

It's time for Kindl to play a role and Smith cannot possibly learn anything at the AHL level. If the NHL locksout he is going to be bored this year down there. Nyquist can still work on corner play and other things down there. I don't think he can't do those things up here but there are parts of his game that can even be challenged on the AHL level. I don't want him there, but I am not going to go crazy about it. If Holland traded for some D or signed a couple d-man right now to put Smith back down, I would take up a torch with the rest of the villagers that have been running around these boards most of the off-season.

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08-13-2012, 09:32 PM
  #34
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This is honestly so gut-wrenching to think about. I am going to go against the grain here though and I say that he signs a 2/3-year deal after his current contract is up. I really think that coming into the league and idolizing two players in particular - Stevie and Igor - had a very big effect on the type of person Pav is.

I am hoping that he saw the level of loyalty those two guys had; and saw how much pride and care they took in mentoring and leading younger players, that he decides to do the same to our next generation. I really think that he is this type of person deep down.

Maybe I am reaching, but I think we should have a lot more faith in Pav than to just expect that he will bolt to Russia. He has too much fire and heart to walk away from this team if they are still competing.

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08-13-2012, 09:45 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by VladTheImpaler View Post
This is honestly so gut-wrenching to think about. I am going to go against the grain here though and I say that he signs a 2/3-year deal after his current contract is up. I really think that coming into the league and idolizing two players in particular - Stevie and Igor - had a very big effect on the type of person Pav is.

I am hoping that he saw the level of loyalty those two guys had; and saw how much pride and care they took in mentoring and leading younger players, that he decides to do the same to our next generation. I really think that he is this type of person deep down.

Maybe I am reaching, but I think we should have a lot more faith in Pav than to just expect that he will bolt to Russia. He has too much fire and heart to walk away from this team if they are still competing.
Part of the reason I think he is leaving is because he is a great person and thinks about more than hockey. Have seen him do interviews with his daughter as a proud papa and think that is just a decision that will be too hard on him to extend for another two or three years. I hope I am wrong.

It is interesting most people who think he is going don't bring up the money factor. I expect him to get paid more there, probably 10 million annually at least. But I don't think that matters too much to Pavel. Two or three years would be nice, he could still play a couple of swan song seasons in Russia after that and that is what I hope he does.

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08-13-2012, 10:06 PM
  #36
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I don't know. I think it all depends on the state of the Wings at the time.

I could easily see him going the Lids one year at a time route.

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08-13-2012, 10:50 PM
  #37
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I think it will depend on the money available. Holland likes to keep his best players around and regardless of what Holland allegedly thought before signing Datsyuk to his current contract he knows how valuable he is.

Datsyuk has gotten injured more frequently these last few seasons but his effectiveness is still there. I think after this contract is up we'll see him back for 2-3 more years at a contract number similar to what he has now.
Not likely. I saw him a couple of times. Recently at the WC in Helsinki. He has changed. I think he's not happy at all with his family situation. He will fulfill his contract an go back to Russia as soon as he can. In fact, he'd be happy about a lock out now as a possibility to spend a year in Russia.

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08-13-2012, 11:05 PM
  #38
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I think Pav heads back to Russia. His family is already there because he wanted his daughter to learn Russian. That is a lot of time to spend away from one's family. I think this is especially true if the Wings go through a mini rebuild the next few seasons. I don't think he'll ever play for another NHL team but I could easily see him leaving for Russia after this next contract. I'd say its 75-25 in favor of him retiring from the NHL.

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08-13-2012, 11:59 PM
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[QUOTE=RedWings19405;53547939]It depends on the situation with a lot of guys. I just think at some point Nyquist will get a look in the top 6 this year, he needs to earn staying there not be given growing pain times. That isn't a great strategy in the NHL unless you're a bottom feeder.
/QUOTE]


Even good teams let youngsters cut their teeth in bigger roles.
We're seeing this more and more the last couple years. Even from rookies who weren't regarded as big prospects or who didn't produce at high rates in the AHL.

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08-14-2012, 12:01 AM
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As for Datsyuk, I think a lot of people are doing an lot of guessing.
I get the sense he might leave, but who knows?
Maybe Pavel loves it in America now. Maybe he wants to make another 15M in the US rather than sign iffy deals in Russia.

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08-14-2012, 06:24 AM
  #41
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Yes, that's the difference maker. Not to mention we don't know if he is certainly going to leave in two years. If you were being sarcastic punch me in the face.

Whenever he leaves, i'm going to miss him. I'm quite sure his daughter is his #1 priority. Pashas mother died when he was 16.

His dad died a few years back too.

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08-14-2012, 08:23 AM
  #42
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As for Datsyuk, I think a lot of people are doing an lot of guessing.
I get the sense he might leave, but who knows?
Maybe Pavel loves it in America now. Maybe he wants to make another 15M in the US rather than sign iffy deals in Russia.
This is the way I see it too. I think the Red Wings will pay him top dollar short-term, just like the did with Lidstrom, so money shouldn't be an issue.

No one really knows, he probably doesn't even know yet what he's gonna do.

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08-14-2012, 10:30 AM
  #43
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The sky is falling!
Take Datsyuk off the current roster, and we are WAY closer to a lottery team than a cup contender.

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08-14-2012, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
This. I don't always agree with the Wings player development, but I like that they make players earn their roles for the most part. Both Nyquist and Brunner will get a chance at some point to slid in the top six, it is on them to prevent it from changing later. Miller was a rotating forward for the first half of last year, he cemented his place in the lineup then even earned a better role on the third line.

It hurts Nyquist's chance at the Calder, but at some point he will be given a chance to run up front, it is on him to make it so the Wings don't want to even think about moving him back out of the top 6.
I agree. We didn't cut Yzerman, Federov, and Shanahan to make room for Pav and Z. They earned their spots and gained time playing with Hull. They became top 6 players. They weren't granted top 6 status. Let Nyquist play to a level that Bab's can't deny.

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08-14-2012, 05:45 PM
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Being the first call-up and a top 6 player is a pretty big difference. It could cost you 20-30 games of NHL experience. That's pretty valuable in terms of development. Also don't buy into the "earn your icetime" argument when regarding young guys vs veterans. Young guys get put on very tight leashes, while old guys are allowed to ride past reputations during lulls.
If I had a prospect with that attitude he would never touch the ice. Players get more experience playing big minutes in the AHL than they do riding the pine in the NHL because they can't make themselves stand out. Let them earn it.

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08-15-2012, 03:58 PM
  #46
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Just interesting to me that we have such a different dynamic at defense and forward right now. Kindl and Smith are slated as starters as of today, while Nyquist who had a great year last year is looking at being the odd man out amongst a group of 16 forwards. I just find it odd.

Also I really don't think preseason determines jack ****, Nyquist looked like a stud during last year's preseason.
If the rookies have a great first 8-9 games and spring training, Holland will trade away some of these extra forwards at the 30game mark if the kids can take their spots permanently.

If not, we have a full roster of adults that can play.

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08-15-2012, 04:56 PM
  #47
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If I had a prospect with that attitude he would never touch the ice. Players get more experience playing big minutes in the AHL than they do riding the pine in the NHL because they can't make themselves stand out. Let them earn it.
I never insinuated that was Nyquist's perspective of the sitaution, rather stated my own personal opinion.

Nyquist was over a point a game last year, and would have finished top 5-10 in the league last year if he stayed down the whole year. Spending another year in the AHL repeating the exact same results you did last year (which is what Nyquist would do, finish top in scoring again), is a lot less valuable in development than getting to play with the big boys and learn from NHL teammates.

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08-15-2012, 05:27 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I never insinuated that was Nyquist's perspective of the sitaution, rather stated my own personal opinion.

Nyquist was over a point a game last year, and would have finished top 5-10 in the league last year if he stayed down the whole year. Spending another year in the AHL repeating the exact same results you did last year (which is what Nyquist would do, finish top in scoring again), is a lot less valuable in development than getting to play with the big boys and learn from NHL teammates.
I just think there is a lot of clamoring around here to throw the kids on the top 6 even though they haven't even earned a spot on the roster.

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08-15-2012, 05:33 PM
  #49
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Take Datsyuk off the current roster, and we are WAY closer to a lottery team than a cup contender.
With the current roster, they arent a cup contender with Datsyuk. No Datsyuk = lottery city. Unfortunately the Oilers would win the #1 pick since they have so much more experience over the Wings.

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08-15-2012, 07:44 PM
  #50
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I think Pav heads back to Russia. His family is already there because he wanted his daughter to learn Russian. That is a lot of time to spend away from one's family. I think this is especially true if the Wings go through a mini rebuild the next few seasons. I don't think he'll ever play for another NHL team but I could easily see him leaving for Russia after this next contract. I'd say its 75-25 in favor of him retiring from the NHL.
He can't afford Rosetta Stone?

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