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Old
08-14-2012, 04:41 PM
  #201
Paul4587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
No it's not. But the only thing Bob said was that it was an accident. I could see him easily slamming a chair to the ground and having it bounce around and end up hitting somebody. Stupid behavior? Absolutely. Assault? I don't think so. A sue happy victim that sees an opportunity? The world is full of them.

I'm not Bob's biggest fan, but I have a hard time seeing him intentionally throw a chair at anybody. Like I said, I want to hear both sides, but I'm not ready to convict Bob on that article.
That's what I always though happened. That or he went to throw the chair and she was behind him and caught the chair while he was winding up to throw it. I highly doubt he was actually aiming a chair at her.

I also thought nothing had come of the incident, yet it's resurfacing over three years later.

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08-14-2012, 05:05 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
No it's not. But the only thing Bob said was that it was an accident. I could see him easily slamming a chair to the ground and having it bounce around and end up hitting somebody. Stupid behavior? Absolutely. Assault? I don't think so. A sue happy victim that sees an opportunity? The world is full of them.

I'm not Bob's biggest fan, but I have a hard time seeing him intentionally throw a chair at anybody. Like I said, I want to hear both sides, but I'm not ready to convict Bob on that article.
While intent would play a role in leniency, that scenario is still considered assault(edit: I'm mixing up my terminology, battery is what it constitutes). You are expected to face the consequences of your actions, regardless if what resulted comes from malice or recklessness.

We do need to wait and see what actually happened here, but that also means not labeling the injured party as just some litigious idiot looking for free money. He's liable for things like medical bills whether he wanted to injure someone or not.


Last edited by Exit Dose: 08-14-2012 at 05:18 PM.
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Old
08-14-2012, 05:41 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
While intent would play a role in leniency, that scenario is still considered assault(edit: I'm mixing up my terminology, battery is what it constitutes). You are expected to face the consequences of your actions, regardless if what resulted comes from malice or recklessness.

We do need to wait and see what actually happened here, but that also means not labeling the injured party as just some litigious idiot looking for free money. He's liable for things like medical bills whether he wanted to injure someone or not.
I don't disagree with your analysis or that Bob may have some liability even if someone was unintentionally hurt. And I haven't yet accused the plaintiff as a sue happy victim, only that it is a distinct possibility. However, it is hard not to think in those terms when you read the following:
Quote:
Her lawyers said the attack was so vicious, it caused Paris to urinate blood and tore cartilage in her left shoulder, requiring surgery, among other injuries.

They said she was fired after her boss told her not to notify police because he was fearful of losing his broadcasting contract with the Wings.

“She’s lost her house, she’s lost her car and she hasn’t been able to work,” Paris’ lawyer, Mayer Morganroth of Birmingham, said Monday. He said Paris suffered debilitating injuries that have prevented her from working.
If all Bob did was act stupidly and accidentally hurt someone, then calling it a vicious attack tells me this is a victim mentality, sue happy person who wants to blame all of her life's failures on somebody else. And, to me, taking this kind of accusation public only reinforces that belief.

If I'm a betting man, I'm calling BS on this woman. And I'll even bet a cup of Starbucks on it (since I have no idea how to gamble vcash).

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08-14-2012, 05:42 PM
  #204
snarktacular
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Either that article is blowing things out of proportion or there was a lot more to the chair shot than initially reported. Those injuries seem very far fetched though.
It's probably less the article and more the lawyer. And it's probably par for the course. I'd say it mostly speaks to the ridiculousness of civil cases.

If Murray was really at fault, something should have come of the criminal case. This is just suing for suing's sake.

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08-14-2012, 05:53 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
If all Bob did was act stupidly and accidentally hurt someone, then calling it a vicious attack tells me this is a victim mentality, sue happy person who wants to blame all of her life's failures on somebody else. And, to me, taking this kind of accusation public only reinforces that belief.

If I'm a betting man, I'm calling BS on this woman. And I'll even bet a cup of Starbucks on it (since I have no idea how to gamble vcash).
It can be both. Bob may remember it as an accident, but being on the receiving end or as a bystander, it may look very different. As Snark points out, this is how her lawyer is framing it, which may or may not be an exaggeration.

Is Bob going to come out and say, "yeah, I smacked her up good," if it wasn't an accident?

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08-14-2012, 05:54 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
If Murray was really at fault, something should have come of the criminal case. This is just suing for suing's sake.
Her lawyer did say that she was pressured to keep silent about it.

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08-14-2012, 05:58 PM
  #207
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Here is an interesting perspective to the story:

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/articl...0Red%20Wings|p

Quote:
Murray and two assistants, Maureen Nyeholt and Ryan Lichtenfels, told police they didn't see an assault, even though they were standing on both sides of Murray in the cramped press box when he decided to head to the dressing room.

The Detroit Police Department investigated the incident, but the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office declined to issue a warrant, according to police reports.

The reports said Paris was treated with an ice pack at Joe Louis Arena after the incident, but no bruises, marks or swelling were found and she declined further treatment or to be taken to the hospital.
Hmmm....


Last edited by Eddie Shack: 08-14-2012 at 06:00 PM. Reason: wrong link
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Old
08-14-2012, 06:08 PM
  #208
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Is it possible that Murray's assistants would lie to protect their boss?

It's going to be pretty hard to fake a surgery.

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08-14-2012, 06:31 PM
  #209
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I'm willing to hear both sides in court. But the police investigated and filed no charges. She refused treatment beyond an ice pack and had no visible signs of injury but now claims to need surgery, pees blood, has torn shoulder cartilage?

The story just keeps getting better all the time:
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz23ZAWabzv

Quote:
Rachel Paris, who filed suit in U.S. District Court in Detroit in 2010, testified Wednesday that the chair was thrown by Bob Murray in the press box at Joe Louis Arena and caused severe injuries to her left shoulder, neck, back, ribs and hips. Paris, who was 55 at the time, said a few of her teeth were chipped in the attack, too.

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08-14-2012, 06:42 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I'm willing to hear both sides in court. But the police investigated and filed no charges. She refused treatment beyond an ice pack and had no visible signs of injury but now claims to need surgery, pees blood, has torn shoulder cartilage?

The story just keeps getting better all the time:
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz23ZAWabzv
If her shoulder required her to get surgery and cracked her teeth, it should be easy enough to prove. With that said, it's not exactly unheard of for someone to be injured far worse than they realize, or show outward signs of injury immediately after it occurs. If she gave in to pressure to keep it quiet, then it's not surprising that police chose not to take it any further.

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08-14-2012, 06:58 PM
  #211
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That is all possible. And I'm willing to see what develops but the story she paints gets harder to believe in that nobody in a crowded press box would have seen it happen and back her up? If it was that severe and with malice as she charges, I have a hard time believing others wouldn't have seen it and reported it to the police themselves. People would likely have stepped in if it was an actual attack. It would also very likely been talked about by many.

A more likely scenario is that she lost her job for reasons totally unrelated to this and decided to try suing in hopes of some settlement. I don't doubt she had surgery. I do seriously wonder if it had anything to do with BM.

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08-14-2012, 07:10 PM
  #212
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I would have had a hard time believing that multiple parties could successfully cover up years of child molestation at a major football program in order to protect an ex-coach, but that doesn't seem so crazy now. Maybe this is a frivolous lawsuit. Maybe a major sports franchise was able to use its clout to brush an assault under the rug. We shouldn't assume it is because it didn't play out like an episode of Law & Order. Nor should we let the fact that he GMs our favorite hockey team prejudice how we perceive her claim. It's also entirely plausible that there's a bit of exaggeration on her side, and a phony alibi on the other.

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08-14-2012, 07:37 PM
  #213
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If anything Murray's position and performance at that position makes me biased against him. And he seems angry enough that I would totally believe that he would do something like this if the accuser seemed credible.

But what's come out so far isn't exactly helping in the credibility department.

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08-14-2012, 08:07 PM
  #214
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Shoulder, neck, back, ribs, hip and teeth. Are they serious? They're actually trying to say he took the chair and mercilessly beat her with it? Not only that, but how in the hell would an assault with a chair cause a torn labrum without any other major damage? If he was hitting her that hard, I imagine it would either dislocate or separate her shoulder as well, or probably actually break something.

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08-14-2012, 09:35 PM
  #215
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I've been perusing the court documents for this case. Initially Paris filed 1) assault and battery, 2) intentional infliction of emotional distress against Murray, and 3) negligence and, 4) respondeat superior against the Ducks.

The IIED claim was dismissed as baseless. At one point, Paris had to stipulate to zero pain and suffering damages because she didn't comply with the court order to have the Ducks' shrink examine her. Then she switched lawyers.

Ken Holland was subpoenaed at one point - he filed a motion to quash.

Right now they're fight over the extent of her consequential damages. She's claiming that some screenplays she was working on in 2009 never went forward to production because of the injury, however, the Ducks deposition of her seems to indicate that the funding for those projects was never in place, and wasn't certain.

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08-14-2012, 09:44 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by My Cat View Post
I've been perusing the court documents for this case. Initially Paris filed 1) assault and battery, 2) intentional infliction of emotional distress against Murray, and 3) negligence and, 4) respondeat superior against the Ducks.

The IIED claim was dismissed as baseless. At one point, Paris had to stipulate to zero pain and suffering damages because she didn't comply with the court order to have the Ducks' shrink examine her. Then she switched lawyers.

Ken Holland was subpoenaed at one point - he filed a motion to quash.

Right now they're fight over the extent of her consequential damages. She's claiming that some screenplays she was working on in 2009 never went forward to production because of the injury, however, the Ducks deposition of her seems to indicate that the funding for those projects was never in place, and wasn't certain.
That's good to hear.

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08-15-2012, 04:12 AM
  #217
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Someone shoud translate BM into a Hulk with a chair in his hand in PS.

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08-15-2012, 09:53 AM
  #218
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If anyone's interested this is Murray's/Anaheim's version of what Paris has said. This is not their defense, it's their paraphrasing of her, between her complaint and her depo. (sorry for the formatting - cut and paste from a .pdf)

Quote:
Plaintiff filed the instant action alleging that she was injured while working in the press box at Joe Louis Arena on or about
May 14, 2009 as a result of being struck with a chair moved by Defendant Bob Murray. Plaintiff has alleged injury to her left
shoulder, neck, back, left arm, and left hip (Exhibit A, Deposition of Rachel Paris, p. 24-25, 30-32, 37-30). Plaintiff's Count
II is for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress and alleges Plaintiff has suffered “severe emotional distress, humiliation,
embarrassment, anxiety and mental anguish.” (R. 1, Plaintiff's Complaint, ¶ 19).
Plaintiff alleges that Defendant Murray hit her with a chair in the press box at the conclusion of a Detroit Red Wing playoff
game against the Anaheim Ducks (Exhibit A, p. 63). Attached as Exhibit B is a photograph of the press box at Joe Louis Arena.
The photograph depicts the area where Plaintiff was positioned at the time of the incident. Plaintiff testified she was positioned
along the back wall near where the trash bins are seen in Exhibit B (Exhibit A, p. 82). Plaintiff alleges she was hit twice with
the type of chair seen in Exhibit B (Exhibit A, p. 88).
On the night of the incident the press box was packed with people along the counter and she was positioned on the back wall
between two chairs that had her papers on them (Exhibit A, p. 83, 86). Plaintiff agreed that the distance between the counter
and the back wall in the press box is about four feet (Exhibit A, p. 85). Some people were sitting in the chairs along the counter
and others were standing up with the chairs pushed back (Exhibit A, p. 85). Plaintiff indicated that Mr. Murray was in the press
box during the game and was standing a lot during the game (Exhibit A, p. 81).
After the final horn sounded and the game was over, Plaintiff turned to her right and a chair came into her field of vision (Exhibit
A, p. 87). The chair came down and hit her legs in the shins and her chest (Exhibit A, p. 90). It was the back of the padded chair that made contact with her chest (Exhibit A, p. 90). Plaintiff was inches from the wall and went backwards into the wall and
then forward again (Exhibit A, p. 91-92). She then claims Defendant Murray picked the chair straight up by the seat portion
with the chair angled slightly toward her (Exhibit A, p. 95). Plaintiff contends Mr. Murray then extended his arms and the chair
struck her a second time (Exhibit A, p. 96). He then let go of the chair and it came down onto the floor (Exhibit A, p. 97). The
time between the first and second claimed contact with the chair is a matter of a second or so (Exhibit A, p. 98). Mr. Murray
then left the press box (Exhibit A, p. 98).
After the incident Plaintiff continued working and completed the post game show (Exhibit A, p. 100). She then went down to
speak with the police at Joe Louis Arena (Exhibit A, p. 101). About fifteen or twenty minutes after the incident, Mr. Murray
came up to Plaintiff and apologized indicating it was an accident (Exhibit A, p. 105). Plaintiff refused to accept that it was an
accident (Exhibit A, p. 105). Mr. Murray again approached Plaintiff later while still at the arena and apologized saying he was
sorry and it was an accident (Exhibit A, p. 116).

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Old
08-15-2012, 10:37 AM
  #219
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Sounds a bit hard to follow especially without all the "twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was" (apologies to Arlo Gutherie). But she seems to indicate BM made a stabbing motion towards her with the chair after he picked it up. No indication on what happened to cause it to hit her the first time...according to BM's version.

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08-15-2012, 10:44 AM
  #220
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Well, the story has made it's way to Yahoo's Puck Daddy [LINK], including this:

Quote:
Murray's lawyer Steven Potter told jurors that Paris was exaggerating her injuries, as the defense has videos showing her carrying groceries for three miles and lifting a 2.5-gallon gas can with her "debilitated" left shoulder.

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08-15-2012, 02:05 PM
  #221
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So he hit her a second time, yet no-one in a packed press box saw it?

I think I see those flying pigs outside my window as well

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08-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
So he hit her a second time, yet no-one in a packed press box saw it?

I think I see those flying pigs outside my window as well
There's a Pink Floyd concert going on outside your window?

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08-15-2012, 02:48 PM
  #223
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So he hit her a second time, yet no-one in a packed press box saw it?

I think I see those flying pigs outside my window as well
..with Kings stanley cup gear on them

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Old
09-07-2012, 11:47 PM
  #224
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Yikes 4.5 million for Marchand. Really like the guy, but not sure I like him 4.5 millions' worth.

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09-07-2012, 11:55 PM
  #225
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I think Marchand might be a case where the intangibles are worth the extra money.

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