HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-2013 Lockout Discussion Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-14-2012, 05:33 PM
  #176
BlueShirts88
Section 208 Row 15
 
BlueShirts88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,349
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BlueShirts88
I'm a little more optimistic after reading through this thread.

I have a feeling the owners will counter with something absurd and make the players even more mad, though. The owners are at a majority of the fault IMO.

__________________
"Matteau! Matteau! Matteau!"~H. Rose
BlueShirts88 is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 06:16 PM
  #177
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,697
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Some numbers for 2011/2012 from Cap geek

TOTAL NHL SALARIES (incl bonuses) - 1.765.884.994
Average per team - 58.862.833

LTIR Money exceding cap - 9.057.167
Average per team - 301.906

TOTAL PAID NHL SALARIES - 1.774.942.161
Average per team - 59.164.738

Cap ceiling - 64.300.000
Average under cap ceiling per team - 5.135.262
% under cap ceiling - 7,99%
Bonuses (deferrable in future?) - 94.083.750

With 1,89 B in player revenue and an 8% overage ceiling (with a flat, fixed cap for 3 years) the cap roof would wind up slightly over 68 M. Workable imo...


Last edited by BBKers: 08-14-2012 at 06:23 PM.
BBKers is online now  
Old
08-14-2012, 06:24 PM
  #178
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,404
vCash: 500
So that would give us about 9 million left in cap space?

Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 06:27 PM
  #179
mrjimmyg89
'13-'14 East Champs
 
mrjimmyg89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
So that would give us about 9 million left in cap space?
If they don't allow salaries to be stashed in the minors, it will be less with Redden counting again. Although, my guess is they would do an amnesty situation like the NBA and Redden would be the first person to get bought out.

mrjimmyg89 is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 06:29 PM
  #180
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Under the NHLPA's proposal, the salary cap would end up at $78.93 million in 2014-15, the third year of the agreement
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/st...17705149628416

Kyper had tweeted no increases for 3 years.

The NHL accepting a $79M cap?

The NHL proposed a $52.5M cap.

Quote:
The NHL’s Declaration of War presented to the Players’ Association in the guise of a first proposal on Friday would roll back the salary cap to approximately $52.5 million for 2012-13. The drop of nearly $10 million from last season would represent the lowest number since 2007-08, sources with knowledge of the league’s scheme have told Slap Shots.

This $52.5 million off a “midpoint” of $48.5 million is the result of a calculation based on the ramifications of slashing the players’ share of the gross to 46 percent from the current 57 percent, coupled with the redefinition of Hockey Related Revenue with the express written intent of dramatically reducing the amount in the pool.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...#ixzz23ZBQvX3V

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 06:30 PM
  #181
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
If they don't allow salaries to be stashed in the minors, it will be less with Redden counting again. Although, my guess is they would do an amnesty situation like the NBA and Redden would be the first person to get bought out.
But that was done before the new CBA, how could that effect the Rangers now? I wouldn't doubt they will make stipulations that you can't stash salaries. On the other hand, I'm willing to bet you they do nothing about that if there is increased revenue sharing. They got to give large market teams some sort of incentive.

Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 07:04 PM
  #182
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
The NHLPA also calls for expanded revenue sharing of what Fehr said would be up to $250 million a season. The league proposed $190 million, I’m told by sources, which is up from $170 million in the previous CBA. In the player proposal, I’m told the figure listed is actually $240 million (not 250, like Fehr said in his presser). Whatever: $240 million or $250 million is relatively not a long ways off from $190 million, so that’s pretty negotiable.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/166193886.html

$190M

$240M

Split the difference. $215M. $45M increase.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 07:19 PM
  #183
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
The proposal includes delinking the salary cap from hockey-related revenue and setting a fixed rate increasing by two per cent for the first year, four per cent for the second and six per cent for the third. That would see the salary cap grow to US$78.93-million for the 2014-15 season.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...+Article+Links

The NHL could agree to a fixed rate at a lower number. Under that proposal,the upper limits would be

Year 1-$71,604,000

Year 2-$74,468,160

Year 3-$78,936,250

Bettman isn't accepting that.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 07:33 PM
  #184
Jabroni
The People's Champ
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...+Article+Links

The NHL could agree to a fixed rate at a lower number. Under that proposal,the upper limits would be

Year 1-$71,604,000

Year 2-$74,468,160

Year 3-$78,936,250

Bettman isn't accepting that.
So right now, the cap ceiling is based off of HRR?

How does that work?

Jabroni is online now  
Old
08-14-2012, 08:28 PM
  #185
silverfish
Mr. Glass
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 15,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...+Article+Links

The NHL could agree to a fixed rate at a lower number. Under that proposal,the upper limits would be

Year 1-$71,604,000

Year 2-$74,468,160

Year 3-$78,936,250

Bettman isn't accepting that.
And suddenly, this NHLPA proposal is not as fair as we thought. A cap of $71.604 million is a joke, let alone nearly $79 million. In year 3 the cap floor would be like $60 million. 16 teams are currently under the $60 million number.

silverfish is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 08:37 PM
  #186
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 11,984
vCash: 500
John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet
Part of PA Proposal includes ability to "trade" cap space. Same amount of money/cap remains in system yet can be redistributed or "bought"

John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet
Have been told it's a minor part of PA Proposal and has very limited use, specifically for teams in distress.Doubt the League will agree.

__________________
http://hfboards.com/image.php?u=53946&type=sigpic&dateline=1320361610
NYRFAN218 is online now  
Old
08-14-2012, 08:49 PM
  #187
Jabroni
The People's Champ
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet
Part of PA Proposal includes ability to "trade" cap space. Same amount of money/cap remains in system yet can be redistributed or "bought"

John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet
Have been told it's a minor part of PA Proposal and has very limited use, specifically for teams in distress.Doubt the League will agree.
Sounds like something from a roller hockey league.

Jabroni is online now  
Old
08-14-2012, 09:17 PM
  #188
Blazephr
Registered User
 
Blazephr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vermont - NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,857
vCash: 500
Can someone please explain how revenue sharing works amongst owners and players?

Blazephr is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 09:51 PM
  #189
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
Can someone please explain how revenue sharing works amongst owners and players?
There is a couple ways to do it that I know of:

1)Set operations fee, where all 30 teams donate a set amount of money. Its collected, and then redistributed among those teams deemed in need.

2)Percentage contribution where teams that have certain amount of revenue have to donate more, and teams with less revenue do not. Money is collected and redistributed to those in need.

Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
08-14-2012, 10:40 PM
  #190
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
 
I Eat Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 6,084
vCash: 500
The latest NHLPA proposal is ridiculous. Looks like no hockey until January, and I'm being an optimist.

I Eat Crow is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 06:46 AM
  #191
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,859
vCash: 500
The exceptions to the hard cap

Quote:
Clubs could go up to $4M over cap and drop to $4M under floor by adding or trading cap space re PA proposal....
Quote:
NHLPA has also proposed extra draft picks for teams in financial trouble that could be used, traded or sold, Post has learned...
Quote:
PA also has proposed that NHL establish a limit on non-player spending by teams
Quote:
NHLPA intends to submit own proposals re systemic issues (e.g, free agency, entry level, salary arb)..
Quote:
PA will propose eliminating team walkaways on salary arbitration, Post has learned...
https://twitter.com/NYP_Brooksie

Why is the NHLPA proposal ridiculous? The hard cap is still in place. They can work around the other stuff. Fehr didn't propose scraping the cap. No luxury tax.

They can play around with setting the upper limit. The PA proposal keeps it at $70.2M. The mid-point is currently $59.2M. They added 5% and added $8M for $70.2M. Maybe they remove the 5% and add $8M to $59.2M. $67.2M and go from there. $2.9M higher than $64.3M. Maybe there's no increase for 12-13. Its $67.2M and the fixed increases begin in the 2nd year.

The concept is there. The players are guaranteed $189M which is 57% of $3.3B and small fixed increases. The owners grow the business. They keep more. Revenue sharing helps the lower revenue teams reach the floor. The money collected in revenue sharing will be allocated for those teams to spend. The NHL has proposed $190M which is $20M more than the current CBA and the PA has proposed $240M.

Quote:
Proposal eliminates current restrictions on teams like NYI and ANA (market size). Also eliminates reduced payment for teams that do not...
Quote:
grow their own revenues at the league average. (That really hurt CLB, for example.) There are also no changes to what is currently...
Quote:
considered Hockey Related Revenue. Couple sources say the new model is similar to, but not exactly, MLB's structure. Once money is placed...
Quote:
in pool, both NHL and NHLPA would distribute to teams based on need. Anyway, hope this is fresh. Vacation time. Take care, everyone.
https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC

The Islanders and Anaheim are not allowed to receive revenue sharing because they play in the NY/LA media markets. There was too many TV homes in those markets.

MLB has something called Competitive Balance Lottery in their new CBA.

Quote:
Now that Major League Baseball has gone through its first Draft and signing period under the new rules of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, it's time to move on to the next phase of the new system: the Competitive Balance Lottery.

The lottery, scheduled to take place Wednesday at 1:30 p.m. ET in New York, is a mechanism designed to help teams perceived to need the most assistance by awarding extra Draft picks to some of them. The 10 smallest-market teams and 10 lowest-revenue teams will have the chance to win one of six extra selections in the 2013 First-Year Player Draft.
Quote:
Only a team that wins a pick in the lottery can trade it, meaning that selection can be traded just once. It can't be sold for cash, and it may only be dealt during the season. Trading can commence the day after the lottery is held and is allowed until the end of that regular season. So seeing a lottery pick or two involved in some July 31 Trade Deadline deals is a possibility. They cannot be included in any Winter Meetings deals, however, with trading of picks again permitted at the beginning of the following regular season.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

The PA has proposed selling picks for cash. The NBA allows teams to buy draft picks. Its usually $3M for a #1 pick. Maybe the Rangers can buy a #1 pick to replace the pick sent to Columbus. The NHLPA proposing extra picks for smaller market/lower revenue teams and teams buying picks isn't a ridiculous when its already part of the MLB and NBA.

The owners will want a longer term than 3 years and 1 players option. They can work around that.

That's a bad deal.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 07:06 AM
  #192
Kane One
Global Moderator
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 27,823
vCash: 2749
What is that non-player spending thing?

__________________
Kane One is online now  
Old
08-15-2012, 07:11 AM
  #193
Realize
Registered User
 
Realize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Germany / Aachen
Country: Germany
Posts: 479
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Realize Send a message via MSN to Realize Send a message via Skype™ to Realize
I really hate that I don't understand why a lockout could happen ...
I'm watching the NHL again since 10-11 season right now and do really not get why this could happen.

The only think is that I know there needs to be an agreement between players and .. what..? League?!

Realize is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 08:26 AM
  #194
Cliffy1814
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 629
vCash: 500
The ability to buy Cap space and draft picks will appeal to large market teams.
Of course, you really don't have a hard cap anymore if you allow teams to exceed it, but that is OK.

Aa Haad cap and a luxury tax in theory are both there to accomplish the same thing, so a hybrid type system could work.

Out of the box thinking no doubt. It sounds like a workable framework is there. Plenty of goodies left to use in negotiating back and forth (UFA age, EL contracts, arbitration, etc).

Bettman's comments today will let us know if we'll have hockey by Thanksgiving or not.

Cliffy1814 is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 08:48 AM
  #195
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
I truly believe they will get a deal done rather quickly, and hockey will start on time. Too much to lose. When push comes to shove, they will do it.

It might go to the 11th hour, but I really believe when humans put their minds together to accomplish a goal, and resolve differences for a greater purpose, they will be able to come to an agreement.
Not saying you're wrong...but what do you think is different this time around?

broadwayblue is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 08:51 AM
  #196
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realize View Post
I really hate that I don't understand why a lockout could happen ...
I'm watching the NHL again since 10-11 season right now and do really not get why this could happen.

The only think is that I know there needs to be an agreement between players and .. what..? League?!
Its pretty simple.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 08:53 AM
  #197
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
The latest NHLPA proposal is ridiculous. Looks like no hockey until January, and I'm being an optimist.
Its really not. Its actually a serious proposal.

Unlike the comical garbage that Bettman threw out there.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 09:10 AM
  #198
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
 
Clowes Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Yawk
Country: United States
Posts: 12,544
vCash: 500
I'm so bored I'm watching Game 1 of Nashville-Detroit on NHL Network.

Come September/October, I better not be watching this...

Clowes Line is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 09:11 AM
  #199
McDonagh
Slow it down 30GHz
 
McDonagh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,685
vCash: 1350
You could buy a 1st round draft pick from other teams? That would be really interesting. I didn't even know they had that in other sports.

McDonagh is offline  
Old
08-15-2012, 09:14 AM
  #200
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,209
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its really not. Its actually a serious proposal.

Unlike the comical garbage that Bettman threw out there.
Yup. The framework of the NHLPA's proposal is completely reasonable. There may be some numbers that are high, like the upper cap limit, but that's simply how initial proposals work.

Good on the NHLPA for taking this seriously.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.