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Old
08-12-2012, 11:43 AM
  #126
waldohildahl
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I would trade almost any jet if the offer wAs right. That being said buff is awesome! It would take a lot to get him from wpg. There re many players who I would prefer to move before buff.

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08-12-2012, 12:00 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
I have to admit, I was as frustrated with Byfuglien's style of play as anyone on here last year (check the boards, I was pretty harsh on him )

However, I think because he has been in the league for a while everyone thinks wysiwyg with him. The fact is, the guy is still a pup in terms of the development of an NHL defenseman. Last year was only his second as a full time d man. When you throw in the success he has had (points scored, winning a cup) I'm sure it has been more of a challenge to convince Byfuglien to: be in better shape, and to play more of a system and defense first game.

For me the real key will be watching him this year to see if the modest progress in these areas continue. I get the feeling that Dustin is a bit immature or a 'free spirit'. If the coaches continue to reign that in, and he shows more of a committment to learn and improve in his own zone, we could have a real Chara story on our hands.

The guy is massive, he has a great shot, great speed for someone his size and great offensive instincts. If he adds solid defensive play to his game he well may become the best defenseman in the entire league, and I do not think that is an overstatement. As much as I was calling for the Jets to dump him last year, trading him now might be a Chara-esque mistake.


For me, the first big test will be seeing how he comes in to camp. What kind of shape, how is he practicing, etc.
I agree with you in what we need to see from Buff, and I also said in a earlier post I would take back what I said about Buff if we started to see certain changes in his game. There is no doubt he has the talent.

For me I we have found the compromise on this tread. If we start seeing the changes you have highlighted for Buff he can be a true star in this league. Maybe not the best d-man in the league but a valuable # 1 pairing guy. If he continues to seemingly ignore conditioning, plays as a free ranging rover and leads the league in giving up odd man rushes against. And we continue to have this debate season after season IMO we will need to move him or the Jets will never get past being a middling team. I just don't think we can contend with our top defenseman playing the game he currently plays.

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Old
08-12-2012, 12:04 PM
  #128
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Dear Jets,

Please do not trade Byfug.

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Old
08-15-2012, 08:19 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
Here are some trades I'd try to execute to move buff:

Buff+2nd for Marc staal

Buff+1st for Matt Duchene

Buff+1st or 2nd for Bobby Ryan

Buff+ scheifele + 1st for Tyler Seguin

Buff for Micheal Granlund

Buff for Travis Hamonic

Buff+ Scheilele+? pick for Logan Couture

Buff + scheifele + 3rd for Dougie Hamilton (and we could have just taken him straight up instead of
Scheifele)


There may be a couple more. But that's what I deem my "semi-realistic wish list for Dustin Byfuglien. And if you haven't guessed by now, scheifele doesn't blow my hair back either.

Buff for TH does not come close to being realistic. Isles think 21 yr old Travis is developing into Weberlite for them.

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Old
08-15-2012, 08:56 AM
  #130
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well..Just to stir the pot...

Buff doesn't look crazy fat in this picture...

http://instagram.com/p/OVR4tej9q8/


thats a good sign right?

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Old
08-15-2012, 09:33 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
well..Just to stir the pot...

Buff doesn't look crazy fat in this picture...

http://instagram.com/p/OVR4tej9q8/


thats a good sign right?
Doesn't look fat at all to me.

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Old
08-15-2012, 09:45 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
well..Just to stir the pot...

Buff doesn't look crazy fat in this picture...

http://instagram.com/p/OVR4tej9q8/


thats a good sign right?
Myspace angles make people look thin
I found that out the hard way after a date I "scored" from the internet when I was young... no more internet dates for Garret... haha

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Old
08-15-2012, 09:47 AM
  #133
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Buff has size, which fits, but he does not put out that buzz-saw effort that is Chevy's trademark. He floats a lot and seems (IMO) disinterested at times. The question is, can we advance to the next level with 5/6 of the guys on ice putting out 100% and the sixth 80%. Not saying he isn't a decent player, but I do think the original Waddell contract was (and still is) over payment. To me, he's the kind of guy Philly or Brian Burke would take a gamble on. As time passes and we see what Suter and Weber got, some GM's may (now) may be more amenable to taking on Buff's salary and give back a decent return.

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08-15-2012, 10:09 AM
  #134
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Can we please put a moratorium on the trade Buff threads for a few years? The Jets depth at D is paltry at best, yet some of you want to trade the guy that finished second overall in the league in scoring for defensemen last season? Yikes.

He finished with 41 assists, so clearly he was involved in a good chunk of any of the team offense that was derived via the back-end. Yes, he wandered at times, but he also picked his spots a bit better as the year wore on - probably due to Huddy constantly riding him. Yes, he wasn't overly physical, though he was also injured for much of the last half of the season, which is a limiting factor. Despite playing much of the season with an injury he finished second in scoring for defensemen; and some of you want to jettison that player?


Last edited by Gump Hasek: 08-15-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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Old
08-15-2012, 10:23 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Can we please put a moratorium on the trade Buff threads for a few years? The Jets depth at D is paltry at best, yet some of you want to trade the guy that finished second overall in the league in scoring for defensemen last season? Yikes.

He finished with 41 assists, so clearly he was involved in a good chunk of any of the team offense that was derived via the back-end. Yes, he wandered at times, but he also picked his spots a bit better as the year wore on - probably due to Huddy constantly riding him. Yes, he wasn't overly physical, though he was also injured for much of the last half of the season, which is a limiting factor. Despite playing much of the season with an injury he finished second in scoring for defensemen; and some of you want to jettison that player?
Gump... You are so right it hurts... Sigh...
Plus, Buff was still physical, especially on the boards. I think some people are just sad he doesn't hit like Scott Stevens, or his first game, every single shift

Enstrom plays better with him and Buff plays better with Enstrom. These guys actually fit well together so why split them... More sighing...

From the Statistical Analysis thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
First pairing: Iíve given my thoughts many times on my preference of Byfuglien on the first pairing so I will avoid boring you guys repeating myself. But hereís something new, when looking at the last two seasons the Jets/Thrashers have scored more 5v5 goals/60 while Enstrom-Byfuglien are on the ice and allowed less 5v5 goals/60 than when Enstrom-Bogosian have been on the ice.

Dustin Byfuglien: While Enstrom was 19th for P/GM, Byfuglien finished ranked 3rd in the league, while laboring through an injury the entire second half of the season. At times, he can get caught over pinching, take overly long shifts, and have difficulty transitioning back into the defensive zone, but many have noted that these defensive gaffs decreased throughout the season and that -- if used effectively -- his offensive upside can outweigh his occasional defensive liabilities. Byfuglien and Enstrom are exactly what any team would want in a first pairing, although their one weakness is their inability to dominate on the penalty kill, but Noel likes to maximize their time on even strength and power play anyways. Without injuries, look for improvement defensively and a similar year offensively from Big Buff (if you can believe it).
For D, Byfuglien was 2nd in pts, 6th in goals, and 3rd in assists. For 5v5 */60 with +30 GP he comes 6th in p/60, 27th in g/60, 29th for a1/60, and 12th in a2/60. Offensively speaking, Byfuglien is a very well rounded defenceman: not relying on goals or assists for points and can produce in the power play and at even strength. It's not hard to believe that both Byfuglien and Enstrom would have produced better had they had more games together (their games missed with injuries were separate).

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Old
08-15-2012, 10:23 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Can we please put a moratorium on the trade Buff threads for a few years? The Jets depth at D is paltry at best, yet some of you want to trade the guy that finished second overall in the league in scoring for defensemen last season? Yikes.

He finished with 41 assists, so clearly he was involved in a good chunk of any of the team offense that was derived via the back-end. Yes, he wandered at times, but he also picked his spots a bit better as the year wore on - probably due to Huddy constantly riding him. Yes, he wasn't overly physical, though he was also injured for much of the last half of the season, which is a limiting factor. Despite playing much of the season with an injury he finished second in scoring for defensemen; and some of you want to jettison that player?
Yeah. I don't get it.

I understand questioning his two way effectiveness, but we don't really have a better option. I don't understand the overpay sentiments either. Buff would probably land north of 7 mill a year right now.

Buff is among THE BEST, undoubtedly top 5, offensive D men in the league.
His cap hit is $5,200,000 cap hit 24th among D men.
His actual salary of $4,250,000 is 34th among D men.

That doesn't look like an overpay to me.

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08-15-2012, 10:57 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Can we please put a moratorium on the trade Buff threads for a few years? The Jets depth at D is paltry at best, yet some of you want to trade the guy that finished second overall in the league in scoring for defensemen last season? Yikes.

He finished with 41 assists, so clearly he was involved in a good chunk of any of the team offense that was derived via the back-end. Yes, he wandered at times, but he also picked his spots a bit better as the year wore on - probably due to Huddy constantly riding him. Yes, he wasn't overly physical, though he was also injured for much of the last half of the season, which is a limiting factor. Despite playing much of the season with an injury he finished second in scoring for defensemen; and some of you want to jettison that player?
So... Much... Truth...

I dont get it either

Sure, he isnt our best defensive defensemen. But you cant have 6 defensive d men on a team

You still need scoring from the back end.

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Old
08-15-2012, 11:11 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post

He finished with 41 assists, so clearly he was involved in a good chunk of any of the team offense that was derived via the back-end. Yes, he wandered at times, but he also picked his spots a bit better as the year wore on - probably due to Huddy constantly riding him. Yes, he wasn't overly physical, though he was also injured for much of the last half of the season, which is a limiting factor. Despite playing much of the season with an injury he finished second in scoring for defensemen; and some of you want to jettison that player?
He also seemed to me to be targeted by referees simply based on his size. I suppose there's a safety component to that in that he could probably really hurt somebody but it seemed a little bit like profiling in some games last year. Can't forget the look on Buff's face in the opening part of the home opener against Montreal. Habs player skated right at him, tried to move him and fell down - penalty Buff even though he stood still. I'm pretty sure he never actually felt the contact, but looked around to find the ref with his arm up calling a penalty on him. That's got to impact your ability to be physical when they're calling you for stuff you didn't even do.

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Old
08-15-2012, 11:37 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by buggs View Post
He also seemed to me to be targeted by referees simply based on his size. I suppose there's a safety component to that in that he could probably really hurt somebody but it seemed a little bit like profiling in some games last year. Can't forget the look on Buff's face in the opening part of the home opener against Montreal. Habs player skated right at him, tried to move him and fell down - penalty Buff even though he stood still. I'm pretty sure he never actually felt the contact, but looked around to find the ref with his arm up calling a penalty on him. That's got to impact your ability to be physical when they're calling you for stuff you didn't even do.
For what it's worth, Buff was 64th in the league in hits and he only played 66 games. His hit totals were very similar to Bogo's. Bogo definitely blew a few more people up, but Buff wasn't a non factor when it comes to physical play. Of course I don't really trust hitting stats, and they aren't the whole story, but they do tell you some thing.

Buff didn't have many memorable "big hits." Big hits are fun, but they are also largely overrated IMO. Hits are about effectively using your body to separate your opponents from the Puck. Buff is great at that. He almost always gets the strip and was dynamic 1 on 1. Hits don't have to be big to be effective. There is actually some benefit to being able to skate through a players and keep your feet.

Another big factor in Buff's physicality is puck possession. Jets dominated puck possession with Buff on the ice and D men don't do a ton of hitting in the O zone. I will take a players that posts up on the opposing blue line over one that scrambles around his own zone hitting forwards along the boards.


Last edited by truck: 08-15-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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Old
08-15-2012, 11:46 AM
  #140
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Buff's awesome - when he's got the puck in the offensive zone and no one can take it off him, it's like a running back carrying a pile of tacklers for a 1st down.

Of course his gaffes are highly visible. It seems like every time he gets caught pinching the puck is in the back of our net...

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08-15-2012, 12:05 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Buff's awesome - when he's got the puck in the offensive zone and no one can take it off him, it's like a running back carrying a pile of tacklers for a 1st down.

Of course his gaffes are highly visible. It seems like every time he gets caught pinching the puck is in the back of our net...
Which in my mind is a Buff issue AND a Pavi issue.

He was terrible on breakaways last year.

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Old
08-15-2012, 12:15 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Which in my mind is a Buff issue AND a Pavi issue.

He was terrible on breakaways last year.
I say it's a whole team issue.

Pavs tends to be weak on the oddman rushes and breakaways (other than december wasn't better)
Buff gets caugh when he shouldn't always be (but got better)
The 3rd forward wasn't very good at covering for Buff usually - I'm looking at you Stapleton, GST, and co (but got better as the year went on)

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Old
08-15-2012, 12:31 PM
  #143
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I say it's a whole team issue.

Pavs tends to be weak on the oddman rushes and breakaways (other than december wasn't better)
Buff gets caugh when he shouldn't always be (but got better)
The 3rd forward wasn't very good at covering for Buff usually - I'm looking at you Stapleton, GST, and co (but got better as the year went on)
Exactly.

I agree with just about everything that's been said in the last 10 posts.

The whole team had issues as far as defensive play (4thline being a thirdline, pav's inconsistency, Buff's pinches, Randy jones being on the team) but because Buff has some highlight reel guffawes he gets singled out as the sole cause of all those goals against.(even though our GAA was better with him in the lineup then out, was it not?).

In short, the guy drives the bus, is hugely important, and most importantly, he is used appropriately.

Can you rely on an offensive guy like that to be in your top pairing? Yes, if your top pairing is used as an offensive pair, which is exactly what Noel does.

The concern that buff's free roaming is detrimental to the team due to his status as the No1-2 d man would only be an issue if Noel used him as a two way/pp/pk dman, which he doesn't.

Conclusion:
I love Byfuglien and so can you!

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08-15-2012, 12:48 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
well..Just to stir the pot...

Buff doesn't look crazy fat in this picture...

http://instagram.com/p/OVR4tej9q8/


thats a good sign right?
That's a big fish.

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08-15-2012, 01:39 PM
  #145
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That's a big fish.
Mark Denkanich will one up that
http://lockerz.com/s/234714590

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #146
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I have a feeling Big Buff is going to have a record year.

With the move, court cases, injuries and all that BS behind him and with another year of development on defence I think he's going to quiet all the naysayers.

We need to keep Buff.


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08-15-2012, 01:47 PM
  #147
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Mark Denkanich will one up that
http://lockerz.com/s/234714590
What's with the sturgeon fishing? Absolute monsters.

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08-15-2012, 02:49 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Yeah. I don't get it.

I understand questioning his two way effectiveness, but we don't really have a better option. I don't understand the overpay sentiments either. Buff would probably land north of 7 mill a year right now.

Buff is among THE BEST, undoubtedly top 5, offensive D men in the league.
His cap hit is $5,200,000 cap hit 24th among D men.
His actual salary of $4,250,000 is 34th among D men.

That doesn't look like an overpay to me.
Man, if just one GM in need agrees with you, imagine what we could get in a trade.
Garret and Truck, I love the stats and your systems, but stats are not gospel. Keep up the good work, BTW.
There are many people who, for a variety of reasons, think the Jets medium term (2-5 yr) success could be enhanced by trading Buff for major league talent and youth. If we didn't exist, who would you argue with?
No moratorium.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 08-15-2012 at 03:42 PM. Reason: no need for that
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08-15-2012, 03:56 PM
  #149
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Man, if just one GM in need agrees with you, imagine what we could get in a trade.
Garret and Truck, I love the stats and your systems, but stats are not gospel. Keep up the good work, BTW.
There are many people who, for a variety of reasons, think the Jets medium term (2-5 yr) success could be enhanced by trading Buff for major league talent and youth. If we didn't exist, who would you argue with?
No moratorium.
We are the team in NEED of Byfug.

/thread

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08-15-2012, 03:56 PM
  #150
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stats aside... even just watching...
Buff played better with Enstrom and Enstrom played better with Buff...
Last year their injuries didn't overlap much so they lost almost half a season of being paired together...
I'm excited at what they can do together for a full season...

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