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Opinion of Shea Weber

View Poll Results: How was your opinion changed
Gotten Better 3 4.92%
No Change 32 52.46%
Gotten Worse 26 42.62%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-14-2012, 12:38 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Shea saying he didn't hear the terms until they were on the radio would mean the offer sheet somehow went to the league without his signing or his agent saying what was in it. But I'm sure Shea was completely ignorant of what was in the offer sheet he had to sign before submission until it made the news ... after all, that's what his statements to the press were. His agent and teams talking before the player signs is one thing, the player acting as though he didn't know what was in an accepted deal until after it went to the league and emerged in the public domain is another case all together.
You think the media waits for paperwork to be filled?

Again, I'm sure the news started with "Shea Weber and the Flyers have agreed to and offer-sheet". The media isn't waiting for stuff to be official, they're jumping on the first report, competition to be the first to break a story dictate just that. I'd bet dollars to donuts the media got the information well before the offer sheet was signed.

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08-14-2012, 12:39 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
They did. Weber wanted a short term deal. That was in the presser following the arbitration decision.
maybe I should have said, the lifetime contract he signed this year.

Weber played it smart and maxed out his money.

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08-14-2012, 12:50 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Question for you: Was it ok that the Predators took Weber to arbitration last season? I mean if the Predators really liked Weber and thought he was playing well why not offer him a long term deal last off season?
We did offer him a long term deal. He didn't sign it. We filed for arbitration, IMO, to make sure he didn't sign an offer sheet. No one expected it to get that far. I don't think we handled it well, no.

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08-14-2012, 01:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
We did offer him a long term deal. He didn't sign it. We filed for arbitration, IMO, to make sure he didn't sign an offer sheet. No one expected it to get that far. I don't think we handled it well, no.
See, to me, last season started the bad blood between Poile and Weber's agents and it's poured into this offseason. I think both parties have screwed up big time. I also commend Weber for keeping this about the business side of it and not letting is spill over into his game or his relationship with Trotz or the fans of the Predators.

Both sides have handled it wrong, Weber seems to be the only one trying to keep it right, well Weber and Trotz anyway.

I think Weber's agent is an idiot that runs off at the mouth too much and demands a ton. But if I wanted to get paid, I'm not sure I wouldn't call him, he gets results, he's just not tactful about it.

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08-14-2012, 01:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
See, to me, last season started the bad blood between Poile and Weber's agents and it's poured into this offseason. I think both parties have screwed up big time. I also commend Weber for keeping this about the business side of it and not letting is spill over into his game or his relationship with Trotz or the fans of the Predators.

Both sides have handled it wrong, Weber seems to be the only one trying to keep it right, well Weber and Trotz anyway.

I think Weber's agent is an idiot that runs off at the mouth too much and demands a ton. But if I wanted to get paid, I'm not sure I wouldn't call him, he gets results, he's just not tactful about it.
If this poll was "How has your opinion of Poile changed in the last two off-seasons?", I'd be voting "gotten worse" in that one as well. Not saying he is blameless here by any means.

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08-14-2012, 03:35 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
If this poll was "How has your opinion of Poile changed in the last two off-seasons?", I'd be voting "gotten worse" in that one as well. Not saying he is blameless here by any means.
I'd agree with you. I guess I can just see Weber's side more. I've seen how management expects the best out of you but doesn't want to pay you, I know how hard that can be to keep that from affecting you're morale and job performance.

Poile to me is management, he wants the moon at the price of a lot in Dickson.

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08-14-2012, 04:22 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
You think the media waits for paperwork to be filled?

Again, I'm sure the news started with "Shea Weber and the Flyers have agreed to and offer-sheet". The media isn't waiting for stuff to be official, they're jumping on the first report, competition to be the first to break a story dictate just that. I'd bet dollars to donuts the media got the information well before the offer sheet was signed.
Shea finding out the details of the offer sheet he agreed to from the radio is like a person finding out they lost their virginity from a third party ... patently laughable.

BTW, you've posted in this thread ... just so you know. I'd put it on Toronto radio so you could find out that way but I don't have any contacts there to make it happen.

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08-14-2012, 04:26 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I'd agree with you. I guess I can just see Weber's side more. I've seen how management expects the best out of you but doesn't want to pay you, I know how hard that can be to keep that from affecting you're morale and job performance.

Poile to me is management, he wants the moon at the price of a lot in Dickson.
According to Brett Wilson, the team's offer prior to the offer sheet was approx $104million ... not exactly not wanting to pay Weber.

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08-14-2012, 05:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Question for you: Was it ok that the Predators took Weber to arbitration last season? I mean if the Predators really liked Weber and thought he was playing well why not offer him a long term deal last off season?
Absolutely NOT ok. Not being able to sign him to a long term deal (which he didn't want) is what started this mess in the first place. Had it been me, I would've traded Weber and told Ryan he is the star on this team. This is his team (should he want it) and if not he would be traded at the deadline. Heck, with Weber out of the way Ryan may have been able to convince Parise to come here. I maintain that Suter's reasons for going had more to do with Shea than they did family.

While I am sure Weber will be a professional (well maybe, jury still out on the NTC) I think it may have been better to get an enormous package for him. Course, that's speculation and opinion... things that aren't looked on fondly on these boards.

Poile, Weber, Suter are all to blame for this mess. I blame Poile more than anyone as pretty much everyone who I have talked to in the media who knew Suter said way back LAST YEAR that he wasn't sticking around. It's a tough world.


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Old
08-14-2012, 05:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
According to Brett Wilson, the team's offer prior to the offer sheet was approx $104million ... not exactly not wanting to pay Weber.
That was this season not last, damage was done by then.

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08-14-2012, 05:54 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Shea finding out the details of the offer sheet he agreed to from the radio is like a person finding out they lost their virginity from a third party ... patently laughable.

BTW, you've posted in this thread ... just so you know. I'd put it on Toronto radio so you could find out that way but I don't have any contacts there to make it happen.
Like I said, I'm just passing on what both Blaine Bishop and Frank Wycheck have both said on how sports contracts are handled but I'm sure you in all your worldy contract experience know far more than they do I mean who are they, surely they don't know ****, you've read the CBA.

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08-14-2012, 06:16 PM
  #37
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Hockey is his job. He's allowed to make money at his job just like anyone would. He didn't demand a trade, he didn't walk out, he put himself in a position to make more money. He also put himself in a position to be a Pred for life if they matched.

In fact, I like that it forced the franchise to step up, shell out some cash, and not be pushed around. I understand this team isn't the Rangers or the Maple Leads that can just buy everything in sight, but at some point you have to tell the richer teams enough is enough or they swallow you whole. **** the Flyers, they can't come in here and boss you around.

Great ending for all parties involved, and my opinion of Shea is the same as it always was; he's my favorite player on the time.

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08-14-2012, 08:11 PM
  #38
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Is it not possible that whatever media outlet Weber claims to have heard the details from, was reporting an offer rather than a signed offer sheet, before Weber knew the details? Maybe someone in Weber's camp even leaked the details and that he was likely to sign. Weber might have given a length and dollar amount that would be suitable and the agents worked out the deal with the Flyers which reached the media before it reached Weber?

So to say that he heard it first on the radio doesn't mean he was completely surprised by the details, or that there was some great length of time between the leaked report and the time that Weber signed the deal.

Given the way his agents have already demonstrated their lack of media savvy, and the very little amount of details that we actually know about what happened, I don't think we could realistically say that it did or did not happen the way Trigg is saying it happened. But it's definitely not difficult to believe that it did indeed happen that way.

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08-14-2012, 08:12 PM
  #39
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If there is a roll back in players salaries Weber didn't want to risk losing money if he had a contract that paid him evenly over the term of the deal. With or without adjustments to the CBA he will still get all his bonus money and that's a boatload. I can't fault him for wanting to be paid as the top defenseman in the NHL.

I just don't buy that any guy who signs an offer sheet doesn't want to always leave either. He knew we could match so if he truly wanted out he would've asked for a trade.

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08-15-2012, 02:35 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Do you think Philly would even make an offer if they didn't make it tough for the Predators to sign?

You guys act like Weber sat down and made the terms of the contract. There's no way Philly even starts to talk to Weber's agent without a front loaded agreement.

Predators pushed Weber around last offseason, this season he got his payback. That's why my respect is higher, he took his medicine like a man played hard all season, I understand him completely.
bullcrap.

if its "just business" because its "in the rules" that Shea sought a potentially franchise killing offer sheet this summer, then how is it the Preds "pushed Weber around last offseason" by taking advantage of those same rules to take him to arbitration and block him from seeking the same kind of contract last year when the team wasnt in a position to handle it yet?

Yeah, Weber played hard last year.... for 7.5 million he should have and for the cash he'll be getting now he better not loaf on single damn shift or I'll be on his ass from whatever row Im in...

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08-15-2012, 06:55 AM
  #41
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bullcrap.

if its "just business" because its "in the rules" that Shea sought a potentially franchise killing offer sheet this summer, then how is it the Preds "pushed Weber around last offseason" by taking advantage of those same rules to take him to arbitration and block him from seeking the same kind of contract last year when the team wasnt in a position to handle it yet?

Yeah, Weber played hard last year.... for 7.5 million he should have and for the cash he'll be getting now he better not loaf on single damn shift or I'll be on his ass from whatever row Im in...
Oh so only management is allowed to use the tools provided in the CBA to get better deals, players just have to except it.

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08-15-2012, 08:14 AM
  #42
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Oh so only management is allowed to use the tools provided in the CBA to get better deals, players just have to except it.
um, no... thats my point... either its ok for both or its wrong for both, but you and others are acting like the Preds did something wrong to Weber last summer while what he did this summer was just peachy.


in case Im not being clear... if you are going to argue that Weber was "pushed around" by nashville last summer then I would say that Weber pushed nashville around this summer..

if you say that what weber did this summer was ok, then what poile did last summer was ok...

im fine with either viewpoint but you cant have it be that what poile did was wrong and what weber did was ok...

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08-15-2012, 08:24 AM
  #43
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I think what the Preds did last summer was fine and what Weber did was fine this summer. They both played by the rules set forth in the CBA. If we don't like what they did that's one thing but both were by the book. I know it's summer and we're bored but it sure seems like both the Preds and Weber have moved on and they're happy to have him back for the long haul and he's happy to be here for the long haul.

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08-15-2012, 08:49 AM
  #44
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um, no... thats my point... either its ok for both or its wrong for both, but you and others are acting like the Preds did something wrong to Weber last summer while what he did this summer was just peachy.


in case Im not being clear... if you are going to argue that Weber was "pushed around" by nashville last summer then I would say that Weber pushed nashville around this summer..

if you say that what weber did this summer was ok, then what poile did last summer was ok...

im fine with either viewpoint but you cant have it be that what poile did was wrong and what weber did was ok...
Well in that case yes we agree and I think I've said I think both sides have screwed up. I just don't understand why Weber's getting so much more hate then Poile for doing the same thing.

IMHO the bottom line is this, Poile waited too long to sign Weber to a long term deal, the last 2 summers are the result of that.

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08-15-2012, 08:58 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Like I said, I'm just passing on what both Blaine Bishop and Frank Wycheck have both said on how sports contracts are handled but I'm sure you in all your worldy contract experience know far more than they do I mean who are they, surely they don't know ****, you've read the CBA.
When the story broke, it was a tendered offer sheet, not the Flyers would be making an offer. For that to be the case, the player had to agree to term, bonus, and annual salary ... with his signature on the bottom left side of a document. In other words, it passed the stage where the agent and team were working on a deal and reached the point where player involvement was a must. For things to play out as Weber portrayed on the radio requires either his agents signing a binding agreement without his knowledge of the deal's structure, or Weber signing a document that he didn't bother to even glance over.

Now that agreement is deemed binding between the Preds and Weber without a NMC/NTC, and the Preds are under zero obligation to offer such a clause. The tool Weber's camp chose from the CBA kit bag requires him to "promptly" sign a contract that includes the term, bonus, and salary agreed to in the offer sheet ... and that's all. He and his agents are dragging their feet in an attempt to add a provision that their chosen tactic didn't guarantee rather than living up to their end of the obligations now that the offer was matched.

Quote:
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That was this season not last, damage was done by then.
The rumors and reports last summer were in the neighborhood of 7 years, 7mil + per year .... again, not exactly unwilling to pay the man.

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08-15-2012, 09:16 AM
  #46
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When the story broke, it was a tendered offer sheet, not the Flyers would be making an offer. For that to be the case, the player had to agree to term, bonus, and annual salary ... with his signature on the bottom left side of a document. In other words, it passed the stage where the agent and team were working on a deal and reached the point where player involvement was a must. For things to play out as Weber portrayed on the radio requires either his agents signing a binding agreement without his knowledge of the deal's structure, or Weber signing a document that he didn't bother to even glance over.

Now that agreement is deemed binding between the Preds and Weber without a NMC/NTC, and the Preds are under zero obligation to offer such a clause. The tool Weber's camp chose from the CBA kit bag requires him to "promptly" sign a contract that includes the term, bonus, and salary agreed to in the offer sheet ... and that's all. He and his agents are dragging their feet in an attempt to add a provision that their chosen tactic didn't guarantee rather than living up to their end of the obligations now that the offer was matched.



The rumors and reports last summer were in the neighborhood of 7 years, 7mil + per year .... again, not exactly unwilling to pay the man.
Man, let it go, the media world is not as black and white as the world you live in. And how in the hell do you know when Weber is referring too he never said. He could have been reading a twitter from a Toronto radio personality for all we know.

But I get it.

You don't believe Weber, that's fine, I do, especially after hearing other pro athletes say that's the way the sports world works, that a lot of times your agent agrees to terms without even talking to you about it until the signature is required. But hey, again, what do they know.

And why would they not offer him the contract Philly offered him this summer, Philly thought he was worth it. 114m is a lot more than 49m... Obviously, Weber was worth more.

You guys can hate on him all you want. He's the top defender in the league and deserves to get paid like it.

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08-15-2012, 09:19 AM
  #47
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Well in that case yes we agree and I think I've said I think both sides have screwed up. I just don't understand why Weber's getting so much more hate then Poile for doing the same thing.

IMHO the bottom line is this, Poile waited too long to sign Weber to a long term deal, the last 2 summers are the result of that.
Im not hating on Weber for using the offer sheet to maximize his compensation.

I am criticizing the way he has handled the bullspit his agents were and are saying.

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08-15-2012, 09:20 AM
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Im not hating on Weber for using the offer sheet to maximize his compensation.

I am criticizing the way he has handled the bullspit his agents were and are saying.
Fair enough.

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08-15-2012, 09:27 AM
  #49
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I think my main problem with this whole situation is that it NEVER should've gotten to this point. Last summer Nashville needed to either get Weber locked up or trade him and honestly should've focused more on Suter who probably felt like a 2nd fiddle to Weber as he was hogging all the attention. Weber was an RFA, Suter a soon to be UFA. Had you focused more on Suter, maybe you get him locked up and go to arbitration with Weber.

All parties are guilty here. Suter basically lied to Poile (though everyone seemed to know he was out the door well before Poile did), Weber knew we would have a hard matching hired ****** agents and still hasn't signed because he is holding out for a NTC. Poile is at fault for believing in people's words rather than actions and failing to make decisions ahead of time to prevent disaster. Last summers blunder with Weber and failure to improve the roster coupled with bringing Rads back, proved to be pretty fatal decisions.

And before anyone say hindsight is 20/20, I was calling for most of these moves last summer.

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08-15-2012, 09:46 AM
  #50
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I think my main problem with this whole situation is that it NEVER should've gotten to this point. Last summer Nashville needed to either get Weber locked up or trade him and honestly should've focused more on Suter who probably felt like a 2nd fiddle to Weber as he was hogging all the attention. Weber was an RFA, Suter a soon to be UFA. Had you focused more on Suter, maybe you get him locked up and go to arbitration with Weber.

All parties are guilty here. Suter basically lied to Poile (though everyone seemed to know he was out the door well before Poile did), Weber knew we would have a hard matching hired ****** agents and still hasn't signed because he is holding out for a NTC. Poile is at fault for believing in people's words rather than actions and failing to make decisions ahead of time to prevent disaster. Last summers blunder with Weber and failure to improve the roster coupled with bringing Rads back, proved to be pretty fatal decisions.

And before anyone say hindsight is 20/20, I was calling for most of these moves last summer.
I can give you a lot of that but here's my thing, how do figure we didn't improve the roster? We got rid of older vets and let the young kids take the ice. To me, while we didn't add personnel, we added youth with talent to replace talented vets on the decline. Our offense was 8th in the league. Our PP was 1st. All of this happened without adding guys but letting guys grow. In doing so, we have guys with more experience and a team that is growing together and building chemistry. We came in 4th in the division last season as well. Going into the playoffs we were as likely to win the Cup as anyone out there with the roster that was assembled and to be honest, I think adding some of the pieces we did hurt our chances in the long run. That is my hindsight of the trades we made.

Going in to this season, we have guys that now have experience, some more, some less, that can help the team grow. We have some good vets that are still around as well.

While I think Poile could have done better, how many around here thought we would have two of the big three locked up long term? I was hoping for all 3 but 2 out of 3 ain't bad at this point. I think what hurt Poile was Suter was looking to Weber and Weber to Suter to sign. The longer it went on, you know the rest. I think Poile should've gone to Suter and Weber and said, hey, we've got Rinne locked up, what do you guys need to stay here long term and get it done.

At the end of the day, while it sucked losing Suter, we will survive and who knows, we may turn out to be better without him in the long run. It depends on the growth of Josi, Ellis, Blum etc on the blue line.

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