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2012-13 CBA Discussion Thread *NHL/NHLPA Please do Something!!*

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Old
08-15-2012, 10:38 AM
  #76
TexMurphyPI
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Not really a hard cap if you can just buy cap space, even if the amount is limited. This deal will bring the NHL closer to MLB where the teams with money can just get the better player by either buying cap space to add them to the team or buying top picks to add top young players. Potentially turning the draft into the top players holding out for the better teams as we see in MLB some times.

Of course the lowest revenue generating teams might like it as they can profit from spending less and make more money since many owners will trade winning games for more profit.

The teams in the middle will absolutely hate it as they can't afford to buy the cap space or add the extra money and other teams get to add to their teams making it harder for the mid teams to compete, so they eventually decide to stop spending as much and you end up with the same top teams each season with a surprise or 2 and a bunch of along for the profit teams below.

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:43 PM
  #77
JKP
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Originally Posted by IslesBeGood View Post
Not really a hard cap if you can just buy cap space, even if the amount is limited. This deal will bring the NHL closer to MLB where the teams with money can just get the better player by either buying cap space to add them to the team or buying top picks to add top young players. Potentially turning the draft into the top players holding out for the better teams as we see in MLB some times.

Of course the lowest revenue generating teams might like it as they can profit from spending less and make more money since many owners will trade winning games for more profit.

The teams in the middle will absolutely hate it as they can't afford to buy the cap space or add the extra money and other teams get to add to their teams making it harder for the mid teams to compete, so they eventually decide to stop spending as much and you end up with the same top teams each season with a surprise or 2 and a bunch of along for the profit teams below.
No, it's still a hard cap because it's a cap on overall portion of revenue that the players get. What Fehr's changing is the distribution of that hard cap from an equal cap on each team to the ability to sell cap space among teams. Either way, players still only make 57%.

Now your point about the impact of it is valid, which is why I don't like it. But it is still a hard cap system.

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Old
08-15-2012, 02:40 PM
  #78
Bunk Moreland
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Originally Posted by JKP View Post
No, it's still a hard cap because it's a cap on overall portion of revenue that the players get. What Fehr's changing is the distribution of that hard cap from an equal cap on each team to the ability to sell cap space among teams. Either way, players still only make 57%.

Now your point about the impact of it is valid, which is why I don't like it. But it is still a hard cap system.
Ok I get it.. The entire system is based on a hard cap in relation to HRR but it could fluctuate team to team...



Well really all of this is irrelevant because it sounds like the owners flat out rejected it today after the meetings... Here's some tweets from Michael Grange of Sportsnet Canada:

Quote:
Bettman: 'the sides are far apart and have different views of the world' #NHLPA #NHL
Quote:
Bettman: 'it takes 2 sides to make a deal, 2 sides to negotiate and 2 sides to make it go bad' #NHL #NHLPA
Quote:
Bettman cites #NBA and #NFL as context for #NHL deal
Quote:
Most forthcoming Bettman has been - players proposal didn't respond to theirs & didn't acknowledge industry trends (paraphrase) #NHL #NHLPA
Quote:
Bettman also said he's disappointed that the #NHLPA hasn't responded to contractual issues #NHLPA #NHL
So any optimism that was hyped up yesterday is now dead...

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Old
08-15-2012, 02:46 PM
  #79
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Response quotes from Fehr again from Grange:

Quote:
Fehr: the players said issues are club specific and players are willing to partner to fix it #NHLPA #nhloa
Quote:
Fehr: rather than citing #NBA and #NFL the glaring omission by Bettman was #MLB
Quote:
Fehr: if there are problems maybe the problem is the system? #NHLPA #NHL
Quote:
Fehr: if there is a gap consider the where the owners started with there proposal #NHL #NHLPA

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08-15-2012, 02:56 PM
  #80
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let the battle Begin

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Old
08-15-2012, 03:33 PM
  #81
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Well at least any work issues that go on will help me greatly when I try to get Center Ice heavily discounted form Directv this year.

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Old
08-15-2012, 03:35 PM
  #82
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According to TSN hockey analyst Aaron Ward, the offer also calls for a limit on 'non-player' spending such as costs for head coaching, front office and management payrolls.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403145

This is hilarious. The employees are trying to tell the employer how many managers he can have and how much he can spend on them.

Oh well, all part of the bargaining fun! Although, I bet Wang liked this one.

Seriously, though, now that both deals are laid out here's my answer:

- Agree on a 50-50 HRR split (what's more fair than half each?)

- Rejig the revenue sharing with the 7% diverted from the players to the owners (to help the poorer teams)

- In concert, roll back all salaries 7% to match the change in HRR split (equivalent of 2 weeks salary a year, which most players will lose in a lockout of any duration anyway, esp the dudes with big front-loaded deals)

- Agree to cap contracts at 7 years (a reasonable compromise, that allows for security and kills the cap circumvention)

- Make ELCs 4 years (PAs always sacrifice the young for the vets anyway)

- Make no year of a contract worth more than +/-30% of the average annual amount (the silly front loading needs to stop, especially after the Weber thing)

- Leave UFA the way it is (the other changes should correct most of the current UFA issues)

- Agree to go to Sochi in 2014 (feel good for the players and doesn't cost the owners too much)

- Agree to standardize the discipline into 5 or 6 levels of sanctions (fines and/or suspensions), defined in the CBA by the league and PA during the negotiation, that are clearly defined and then broadly applied.
Ex: Shanny would then go on camera and say "because of the blah-blah-blah of this act, I'm assessing a Level 4 punishment." At least this way, all the players know broadly what the possible impacts of acts are and the discretion is in the League's judgement of which set punishment fits the nature of the offence committed. This would only be for on-ice / in-game stuff, not off-ice where the league needs more discretion.

Print this up, ship it off to them, get it signed and then get on with life.

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Old
08-15-2012, 11:19 PM
  #83
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What did you think about having struggling clubs being able to "sell or trade" $4 million of cap space directly to financially sound clubs?

I think I heard Wang groan with joy over that one.

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Old
08-16-2012, 08:08 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
What did you think about having struggling clubs being able to "sell or trade" $4 million of cap space directly to financially sound clubs?

I think I heard Wang groan with joy over that one.
We're screwed.

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Old
08-16-2012, 08:31 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Isles Shawn View Post
We're screwed.
I do not think that is going to get through. I think its a Bad idea for the NHl to allow such things to happen. I understand some teams need help but to sell cap space just seems really dumb. I doubt most would go for this. this would only benefit a small hand full of clubs. Teams that are in the mid Tier of the league in terms of finances get hurt the most from such a system. Rich teams would just buy Picks and cap space etc.

Could you imagine a Cup winner from a large market. Example Wings win the cup we THe jackets have the first overall pick. Wings call jackets hey guys 6M bucks and we get your pick. Now not only did they win the cup they have the first overall pick ?
A mid tier team wins cup do you think they are going to have the Cash to spend on that pick from the jackets ?

Meanwhile the bottom feeders actually make cash and keep putting crap on the ice each and every season.

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Old
08-16-2012, 12:05 PM
  #86
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08-16-2012, 12:45 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
What did you think about having struggling clubs being able to "sell or trade" $4 million of cap space directly to financially sound clubs?

I think I heard Wang groan with joy over that one.
Because of how Wang has run the isles, I'd be against any sort of rule that allows teams to sell cap space or draft picks.

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Old
08-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #88
Bunk Moreland
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Michael Grange from Sportsnet has an article up on how to fix the CBA issue which pretty much says contract the Isles and Panthers and move Phoenix and Columbus to Canada...

Quote:
Perhaps the biggest challenge facing NHL owners is that they are in business with some real dog-and-pony shows. On one hand you have Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which -- on-ice performance aside -- is perhaps the most sophisticated sports ownership group on the planet. According to Forbes, the Leafs' 2010–11 operating income of $81.8 million nearly matched the next two most lucrative operations -- the Rangers and Canadiens -- combined. (And if you're looking for a staggering figure, the other 27 teams combined for $44.4 million in operating losses.)

On the other hand you have the New York Islanders, who could hold a rat rodeo in the bowels of the decrepit Nassau Coliseum and have taken John Tavares hostage. Phoenix is Phoenix. Columbus is a joke, and Florida can barely draw Canadians during March Break. But what if we chopped two teams and moved two more? More revenue for the league and the players to share, and less bad news for the rest of us. No-brainer.

Lopping off two teams (and before you say that's crazy, I talked to one former NHL governor who wished it was six) makes the league six percent smaller, but as the former governor told me, “You know that revenues wouldn't drop by six percent.” Right away, each remaining team's share of revenues would increase as they would only have to divide by 28 instead of 30; it would also mean two fewer clubs on the receiving end of revenue-sharing cheques. Lopping off the Islanders and Panthers would cut league revenues by $144 million (based on 2010–11 figures compiled by Forbes) but would increase the average earned per team from $103 million to $105 million.

Similarly, moving the next two weak sisters to Canada would add significantly to the league's coffers. If Phoenix and Columbus come north (with the Blue Jackets sliding over to the Eastern Conference to balance them out), with one team in southern Ontario and another in Quebec City, it seems reasonable that they could generate a combined $214 million in revenues, which is the league average. That would bump overall league revenues up by $64 million.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/magazine/201...ve_easy_steps/

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08-16-2012, 03:09 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
Michael Grange from Sportsnet has an article up on how to fix the CBA issue which pretty much says contract the Isles and Panthers and move Phoenix and Columbus to Canada...



http://www.sportsnet.ca/magazine/201...ve_easy_steps/
Michael Grange can suck my *******! Got to love piece of **** reports like that.

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08-16-2012, 03:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
Michael Grange can suck my *******! Got to love piece of **** reports like that.
He did not say anything groundbreaking. Alot of people suggest the same thing all the time. Retract two teams and move two other to bigger markets. In a way it makes sense. However i do not think it will happen

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08-16-2012, 03:31 PM
  #91
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He did not say anything groundbreaking. Alot of people suggest the same thing all the time. Retract two teams and move two other to bigger markets. In a way it makes sense. However i do not think it will happen
You don't take teams away form a league. It's a stupid idea and makes your league look extremely weak. Just think if MLB or the NFL contracted two teams. It would look really bad for for the league. Then on top of that move two other teams? If all that happened it would be a huge black eye for the league.

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08-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
You don't take teams away form a league. It's a stupid idea and makes your league look extremely weak. Just think if MLB or the NFL contracted two teams. It would look really bad for for the league. Then on top of that move two other teams? If all that happened it would be a huge black eye for the league.
i never sad i would do it. I agree with you. However i also see how it could work.

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08-16-2012, 03:53 PM
  #93
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i never sad i would do it. I agree with you. However i also see how it could work.
I don't see how, you destroy 4 markets but ripping two teams out and sticking them in Canada and obliterating the other two. So that's four markets right away which they will never touch again by doing that. It's not a good business strategy.

The Reporter in the end is a moron(like most of them out there, especially the hockey writers).

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Old
08-16-2012, 05:02 PM
  #94
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Michael Grange can suck my *******! Got to love piece of **** reports like that.
You gotta remember that Grange and the guys at SportsNet / Bob McCowan's crew (of which he's one) are all incredibly Toronto-oriented and don't know squat about the Isles real situation.

Just a couple nights ago they were talking about how the "situation in Long Island" is hopeless and the area could never support a team (with or without a new building). Yet Quebec City and Saskatoon, with their giant corporate bases and massive populations would...

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08-16-2012, 09:45 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by JKP View Post
You gotta remember that Grange and the guys at SportsNet / Bob McCowan's crew (of which he's one) are all incredibly Toronto-oriented and don't know squat about the Isles real situation.

Just a couple nights ago they were talking about how the "situation in Long Island" is hopeless and the area could never support a team (with or without a new building). Yet Quebec City and Saskatoon, with their giant corporate bases and massive populations would...
The whole state of Long Island only has 2,000,000 people, though, right?

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08-17-2012, 08:23 AM
  #96
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The whole state of Long Island only has 2,000,000 people, though, right?
More like 3 million without counting Queens and BK.

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08-17-2012, 09:12 AM
  #97
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Not sure where this belongs, but I heard on XM Home Ice that Detroit has canceled their prospect tournament in Traverse City. Guess I won't have to get PO'ed about the Isles never getting invited, at least this year.

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08-17-2012, 10:32 AM
  #98
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Not sure where this belongs, but I heard on XM Home Ice that Detroit has canceled their prospect tournament in Traverse City. Guess I won't have to get PO'ed about the Isles never getting invited, at least this year.
They invite other teams ?

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08-17-2012, 11:23 AM
  #99
JKP
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The whole state of Long Island only has 2,000,000 people, though, right?
The entire province of Saskatchewan only has 1M people, Saskatoon only has ~250k. QC's metro pop is only ~750k.

I get pissed off at the many Canadians that view this is our game and should only be played here in front of 'real' fans that 'get' it. These feelings are most prominent in Toronto (and its media), where you can sell out a team for years without making the playoffs and without winning a cup in over 40 years.

The only reason the Cdn teams are viable again is because the CAD has appreciated so much against the USD. If the dollar slides back into the mid-70s against the USD, Winnipeg is dead with Ottawa and Edmonton not too far behind.

I believe there are a lot of latent NYI fans waiting for a decent team again. Fix the building situation, and the team will be fine. Move to another good building situation in the NYC area and they'll be fine.

The media clowns in Toronto are just talking out of their ***** again... as usual.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:27 AM
  #100
Bunk Moreland
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Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
They invite other teams ?
Yes.. Here's an article for you:

Quote:
An early indication of the likelihood of an NHL lockout came Thursday when the Detroit Red Wings canceled their annual Prospects Tournament in Traverse City, Mich, which was scheduled to be played in early September....

..The popular Traverse City tournament, which features some of the league's top prospects, has been played for many years. This year, the Red Wings were going to be joined by the Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Hurricanes, Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, New York Rangers, Minnesota Wild and St. Louis Blues.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...out/57101062/1

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