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Max Pacioretty signed for 6 years!! ($27M/$4.5M per)

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Old
08-14-2012, 08:16 PM
  #276
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
Obviously, since he couldn't sign an extension before July 1st...

Gauthier was fired in March.
Yah no kidding. I don't understand. I don't like Gauthier AT ALL but he wasn't even allowed. I mean, it's like *****ing we didn't sign galchenyuk before we drafted him.

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08-14-2012, 09:01 PM
  #277
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I like the topic on marchand on bruins board.

If Pac got 4.5m that means Marchand will get at least 5m...

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08-14-2012, 09:45 PM
  #278
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This can only mean one thing: Max wants to win the cup here in Montreal. And he will. Woute!

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08-14-2012, 10:16 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
I like the topic on marchand on bruins board.

If Pac got 4.5m that means Marchand will get at least 5m...
After seeing your post I went for a look.. I got as far as the stupidity to start post #6 in that thread and stopped reading since I figured it would turn into a Pacioretty bashfest..

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08-14-2012, 10:36 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
I like the topic on marchand on bruins board.

If Pac got 4.5m that means Marchand will get at least 5m...
I think some bruins fans hate max for no reason. The worse he did to them was get injured by a bruin. That being said, marchand is a good player as well, let's not kid ourselves. Also, i'd like to point out MANY bruins fans have showed logic in regards to the max deal, going as far as praising it.

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08-14-2012, 10:38 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
I like the topic on marchand on bruins board.

If Pac got 4.5m that means Marchand will get at least 5m...
Well, it's not like it's a far fetched idea..

Marchand had two good years in Boston, and he also played a very key role in them winning a cup.

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08-14-2012, 11:26 PM
  #282
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good deal for both sides, patches is locked in

and now pk's turn.

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08-15-2012, 12:03 AM
  #283
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Me like this deal.

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08-15-2012, 03:07 AM
  #284
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Just saw this deal today, love it. Patches had one year left on his contract and would have had 2 more years as an RFA, so this deal goes into 4 UFA years. Thats how a GM needs to do it, so big thumbs up for MB. MB identified Patches as a young core piece who has shown enough and committed to him. Its been pointed out that due to his injury Patches would want the security of a long term deal, but Im still going to take it as Patches wanting to stay in Montreal for the long term. Montreal, those who like it, like it a lot.

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08-15-2012, 03:50 AM
  #285
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Wonderful deal!

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08-15-2012, 07:27 AM
  #286
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Loved hearing him on the radio yesterday. He won't celebrate the new contract because he's busy preparing for next season and doesn't want to lose focus.

Of all the players making $4.5 million last year, only one player scored more goals than Pacioretty; Cole.

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08-15-2012, 08:46 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I couldn't careless about being applauded by others...I don't post to have other agree with me. Also, i've got over 16K posts on this forum, I doubt if 10% of those are cap related.

was a pleasure chatting my man...too bad you can't handle someone having a different opinion than you.

cheers
I don't care that your opinion is different, I think you made your point 100 times over. There is no point to your posts anymore. You don't like fans taking issue with contracts and finanacial ongoings of the league, you're well within your rights to hold this view, but you expressed this point ad nauseum. Now everytime a topic comes up, you jump in with your ridiculous "put the calculators away" or the "cap doesn't matter" mantra, nevermind the fact that player evaluation can't take place without considering their contracts, a point you continually ignore you are nothjiing more than a nuissance, if you don't like cap discussions, feel free to not discuss it, but those who do enjoy discussing the inner workings of the league are free to do so.

You didn't offer a differing view, you completely ignored my question I had asked in the first place, which was a cba related question and answered with your typical " put your calculator away" crap.

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08-15-2012, 10:00 AM
  #288
roy munson
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think some bruins fans hate max for no reason. The worse he did to them was get injured by a bruin. That being said, marchand is a good player as well, let's not kid ourselves. Also, i'd like to point out MANY bruins fans have showed logic in regards to the max deal, going as far as praising it.
What do you mean "for no reason"? Did you not see what he did to Chara's forearm?

I love this deal because I'm a huge Pacioretty fan (the player AND the man), but also because of what it says about our new management. If you want to keep a player long term, do what's necessary a soon as possible.

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08-15-2012, 10:54 AM
  #289
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The breakdown of the contract goes like this;

Year 1 to 3: 4M
Year 4 to 6: 5M

As already mentionned before there's no NMC/NTC included in this deal

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08-15-2012, 11:18 AM
  #290
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I don't care that your opinion is different, I think you made your point 100 times over. There is no point to your posts anymore. You don't like fans taking issue with contracts and finanacial ongoings of the league, you're well within your rights to hold this view, but you expressed this point ad nauseum. Now everytime a topic comes up, you jump in with your ridiculous "put the calculators away" or the "cap doesn't matter" mantra, nevermind the fact that player evaluation can't take place without considering their contracts, a point you continually ignore you are nothjiing more than a nuissance, if you don't like cap discussions, feel free to not discuss it, but those who do enjoy discussing the inner workings of the league are free to do so.
You do care that my opinion is different since you've continually asked me to stop repeating it. I think i've admitted that I've probably gone overboard with the sensationalism in an effort to show how annoyed I am with the singular focus there is on salaries and cap hits...that's my fault.

But i've also explained why I think focusing solely on cap hits like many here, including you, is completely pointless IMO. It's funny you're mentionning that player evaluation can't take place without consdering their contracts, but my issue is it's the ONLY thing you and many here are considering. Look in this very thread at the beginning when the extension was announced...many people were waiting with baited breath to hear how much is cap hit was going to be for.

I've never said that the salary cap does not matter...I've just said it's not the only thing to consider and i've also extrapolated that in today's NHL, the salary cap might as well not exist. Therefore it is IMO, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me, that focusing solely on cap hits, makes no sense.

If you think that my only points are about "putting your calculators away" and "cap doesn't matter"...then you're just guilty of tunnel vision. Because I've done more than just repeat those mantras.
Quote:
You didn't offer a differing view, you completely ignored my question I had asked in the first place, which was a cba related question and answered with your typical " put your calculator away" crap
Again, I think i've already mentioned that it was my mistake...if you're going to keep re-hasing that, then I don't know what else to say. I've offered for you to put me on ignore, yet it seems you want to continue this ridiculous back & forth for which we're both guilty for.

i'm more than willing, not to mention capable, of discussing this 'salary cap' issue with you without using the mantras your so upset about. But if not, again, the ignore function is there for everyone to use, cause your certainly not going to web-bully me into changing my point of view.

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08-15-2012, 11:27 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You do care that my opinion is different since you've continually asked me to stop repeating it. I think i've admitted that I've probably gone overboard with the sensationalism in an effort to show how annoyed I am with the singular focus there is on salaries and cap hits...that's my fault.

But i've also explained why I think focusing solely on cap hits like many here, including you, is completely pointless IMO. It's funny you're mentionning that player evaluation can't take place without consdering their contracts, but my issue is it's the ONLY thing you and many here are considering. Look in this very thread at the beginning when the extension was announced...many people were waiting with baited breath to hear how much is cap hit was going to be for.

I've never said that the salary cap does not matter...I've just said it's not the only thing to consider and i've also extrapolated that in today's NHL, the salary cap might as well not exist. Therefore it is IMO, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me, that focusing solely on cap hits, makes no sense.

If you think that my only points are about "putting your calculators away" and "cap doesn't matter"...then you're just guilty of tunnel vision. Because I've done more than just repeat those mantras.


Again, I think i've already mentioned that it was my mistake...if you're going to keep re-hasing that, then I don't know what else to say. I've offered for you to put me on ignore, yet it seems you want to continue this ridiculous back & forth for which we're both guilty for.

i'm more than willing, not to mention capable, of discussing this 'salary cap' issue with you without using the mantras your so upset about. But if not, again, the ignore function is there for everyone to use, cause your certainly not going to web-bully me into changing my point of view.
Is there anyone focusing solely on cap hits?

I think all rational and informed fans agree that cap hit is an important component of player value.

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08-15-2012, 11:30 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think some bruins fans hate max for no reason. The worse he did to them was get injured by a bruin. That being said, marchand is a good player as well, let's not kid ourselves. Also, i'd like to point out MANY bruins fans have showed logic in regards to the max deal, going as far as praising it.
There is a reason. He's an awesome player and in the prototypical Bruin mold to boot.

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08-15-2012, 11:39 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Is there anyone focusing solely on cap hits?

I think all rational and informed fans agree that cap hit is an important component of player value.
Yes, I think there is a singular focus on cap hits...you don't think the overall tone of this thread would be completely different if Pacioretty's cap hit would be 5.5M instead of 4.5?

Yes, I also agree that all rational and informed fans would agree that cap hit is an important component of player value, I just think that at the fan level...there's an over-focus (not even sure it's a word lol) on it. It especially comes through when fans start bickering about who is overpaid or not.

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08-15-2012, 11:41 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Yes, I think there is a singular focus on cap hits...you don't think the overall tone of this thread would be completely different if Pacioretty's cap hit would be 5.5M instead of 4.5?

Yes, I also agree that all rational and informed fans would agree that cap hit is an important component of player value, I just think that at the fan level...there's an over-focus (not even sure it's a word lol) on it. It especially comes through when fans start bickering about who is overpaid or not.
I for one would be happy with 5.5.

If the number were 6.5 I'd be neutral-to-worried, and if it were 7.5 I'd be unhappy.

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08-15-2012, 11:48 AM
  #295
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I for one would be happy with 5.5.

If the number were 6.5 I'd be neutral-to-worried, and if it were 7.5 I'd be unhappy.
Perhaps you would...but i'm not entirely sure this thread would be so filled with joy as it currently is, if that was the case. Hell, people were calling the Canes crazy for signing Jeff Skinner to his 6yr 34M contract. Another example, a lot of Habs fans were calling for Gauthier's head last summer when he signed Erik Cole to his deal (funny how all of a sudden his contract is a steal).

P.S. - there was no way Pacioretty was going to sign an extension at 6.5M to 7.5M...his contract range for his age/production is well established. There is an industry standard for every type of player in the NHL, unless of course your talking free agency, the free market tends to skew things...but all things considered, it's not like you're going to see a 4th line player making 5M per year. Salaries are very much controlled, that was the whole point of instituting the salary cap, every type of player is going to make within a certain range of salary, sometimes it's on the lower scale (like Pacioretty's deal)...other times it's on the higher scale (like Skinner's deal).

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08-15-2012, 12:19 PM
  #296
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Good contract for a very good player

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08-15-2012, 12:24 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Yes, I think there is a singular focus on cap hits...you don't think the overall tone of this thread would be completely different if Pacioretty's cap hit would be 5.5M instead of 4.5?

Yes, I also agree that all rational and informed fans would agree that cap hit is an important component of player value, I just think that at the fan level...there's an over-focus (not even sure it's a word lol) on it. It especially comes through when fans start bickering about who is overpaid or not.
You've got a point, but I think you're thumping that point over everyone's heads too strongly this offseason. Cap hits have mattered a great deal since the lockout. Any contending team must be shrewd with their core, and that has enabled those teams to surround their core with excellent complementary players.

Pacioretty's value right now is in the $4.5 - $5m range, I'd say, on a short-term deal intended to prove himself as a front-line player. The fact that Montreal got him signed up through his prime goal-scoring years (in all likelihood) makes for a phenomenal deal--one which should enable the club to sign up an extra core player even. (let's say Pacioretty signed $4.5m for two years, and put up similar stats and all-around very strong play as he did this past season. Combine that with the fact that his next contract would be in mostly UFA seasons, and account for some inflation, and it's within the realm of reason to think Pacioretty would be making $6.5m at that point. Those $2m in savings on Pacioretty are the difference between signing a secondary scorer for $4m and a legit front-liner at $6m.)

For most teams, cap hits don't matter because they're not contenders and either don't spend to the cap, or shouldn't be spending to the cap (and likely have a Gomez, Kaberle or Bourque that are overpaid and can be dumped if necessary). In this cap environment, where the cap is incredibly high, I don't think the cap actually matters as much as it did a couple of years ago.

But all the above said: I see ample reason for fans to be enthusiastic about this deal. It's a terrific deal. And, as mentioned, it ought to make a big difference for Montreal moving forward.

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08-15-2012, 12:29 PM
  #298
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You've got a point, but I think you're thumping that point over everyone's heads too strongly this offseason. Cap hits have mattered a great deal since the lockout. Any contending team must be shrewd with their core, and that has enabled those teams to surround their core with excellent complementary players.

Pacioretty's value right now is in the $4.5 - $5m range, I'd say, on a short-term deal intended to prove himself as a front-line player. The fact that Montreal got him signed up through his prime goal-scoring years (in all likelihood) makes for a phenomenal deal--one which should enable the club to sign up an extra core player even. (let's say Pacioretty signed $4.5m for two years, and put up similar stats and all-around very strong play as he did this past season. Combine that with the fact that his next contract would be in mostly UFA seasons, and account for some inflation, and it's within the realm of reason to think Pacioretty would be making $6.5m at that point. Those $2m in savings on Pacioretty are the difference between signing a secondary scorer for $4m and a legit front-liner at $6m.)

For most teams, cap hits don't matter because they're not contenders and either don't spend to the cap, or shouldn't be spending to the cap (and likely have a Gomez, Kaberle or Bourque that are overpaid and can be dumped if necessary). In this cap environment, where the cap is incredibly high, I don't think the cap actually matters as much as it did a couple of years ago.

But all the above said: I see ample reason for fans to be enthusiastic about this deal. It's a terrific deal. And, as mentioned, it ought to make a big difference for Montreal moving forward.
Which is exactly what i've been saying all offseason, and you're right (as well as others)...I've perhaps tried to thump that point over everyone's head too hard this offseason, I have admitted that.

Also, i've never said no one should be enthusiastic about this deal...I fully agree it is a terrific deal, but whether it makes a big dfference or not for Montreal moving forward depends on a lot of variables. The costs savings are just one of those variables...to continue to drive that point over and over again isn't any different then me trying to drive the point about the salary cap not mattering in today's landscape either.

It takes several elements to build a successful team...managing your salary cap is part of those elements, but I wouldn't say it's any more important than player evaluation or drafting or player development. They all work hand in hand.

Also, another point...it's unrealistic for fans to expect Bergevin to be able to sign core players like Pacioretty to these types of deals everytime.

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08-15-2012, 03:08 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You do care that my opinion is different since you've continually asked me to stop repeating it. I think i've admitted that I've probably gone overboard with the sensationalism in an effort to show how annoyed I am with the singular focus there is on salaries and cap hits...that's my fault.

But i've also explained why I think focusing solely on cap hits like many here, including you, is completely pointless IMO. It's funny you're mentionning that player evaluation can't take place without consdering their contracts, but my issue is it's the ONLY thing you and many here are considering. Look in this very thread at the beginning when the extension was announced...many people were waiting with baited breath to hear how much is cap hit was going to be for.

I've never said that the salary cap does not matter...I've just said it's not the only thing to consider and i've also extrapolated that in today's NHL, the salary cap might as well not exist. Therefore it is IMO, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me, that focusing solely on cap hits, makes no sense.

If you think that my only points are about "putting your calculators away" and "cap doesn't matter"...then you're just guilty of tunnel vision. Because I've done more than just repeat those mantras.


Again, I think i've already mentioned that it was my mistake...if you're going to keep re-hasing that, then I don't know what else to say. I've offered for you to put me on ignore, yet it seems you want to continue this ridiculous back & forth for which we're both guilty for.

i'm more than willing, not to mention capable, of discussing this 'salary cap' issue with you without using the mantras your so upset about. But if not, again, the ignore function is there for everyone to use, cause your certainly not going to web-bully me into changing my point of view.

Web-bully you? You have got be kidding right, either that or you're the king of spin. I was polite in my posts, it was you who tried to tell me what I need to be concerned with. All I've asked was that if you don't have an answer to my question or arent even somewhat interest in answering them, why bother telling me how to think. You can deny, twist and spin how you like.

I really am done with this conversation, you have me defending a position I don't even take, ie cap hit is all that matters, which is nothing more than a straw man. I asked a CBA related question and you were compelled to tell me what to do.

In the end, cap hits do matter, I will continue to discuss them even though it's not even the question I had asked. Lol

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08-15-2012, 03:25 PM
  #300
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Web-bully you? You have got be kidding right, either that or you're the king of spin. I was polite in my posts, it was you who tried to tell me what I need to be concerned with. All I've asked was that if you don't have an answer to my question or arent even somewhat interest in answering them, why bother telling me how to think. You can deny, twist and spin how you like.

I really am done with this conversation, you have me defending a position I don't even take, ie cap hit is all that matters, which is nothing more than a straw man. I asked a CBA related question and you were compelled to tell me what to do.

In the end, cap hits do matter, I will continue to discuss them even though it's not even the question I had asked. Lol
And i'll continue to downplay their importance...to each their own

But as it relates to Pacioretty and the Habs...good on both sides for agreeing to a great deal that benefits both the individual and the team.

Go low cap hits!

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