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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XVII

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Old
08-15-2012, 02:01 PM
  #51
Ten Thousand Hours
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Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post
So everything isn't fine, but don't bother reporting stuff that isn't positive, because it won't have any effect?

It's obvious based on this team meeting (minus the manger) they are spending more time worrying about things they don't control and spedning less time worrying about winning games.

A culture change is needed and having accountabilty is a start.
I never said "don't bother reporting stuff that isn't positive, because it won't have any effect". Go ahead. Report it. Fine. But it's still not going to have any effect. Accountability doesn't start with the media and the fans. Kicking and screaming will not make them play well. The article said that it would. I couldn't disagree more. But if they want to report negative things, that's fine. That's the media's job.

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08-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Seguin2Marshmont View Post
I never said "don't bother reporting stuff that isn't positive, because it won't have any effect". Go ahead. Report it. Fine. But it's still not going to have any effect. Accountability doesn't start with the media and the fans. Kicking and screaming will not make them play well. The article said that it would. I couldn't disagree more. But if they want to report negative things, that's fine. That's the media's job.
I'm not sure how it could hurt anything, because it sure isn't working the way it is now.
These guys don't deserve to be protected.
If you knew some crap you were pulling wasn't going to be swept under the carpet, would you act differently? I know I would.

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08-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Seguin2Marshmont View Post
I never said "don't bother reporting stuff that isn't positive, because it won't have any effect". Go ahead. Report it. Fine. But it's still not going to have any effect. Accountability doesn't start with the media and the fans. Kicking and screaming will not make them play well. The article said that it would. I couldn't disagree more. But if they want to report negative things, that's fine. That's the media's job.
Accountability starts at the top with the owners. I agree with you that no matter what the media does the players will not be accountable as a result. Its not their job to listen to the media.

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08-15-2012, 02:08 PM
  #54
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I agree that transparency & owning up to mistakes etc. Will be good for the fans & the goodwill of the city & team, but there are plenty of problems on the field alone that need to be solved. Some of the prospects probably aren't ready yet, throwing money around seems to only hurt, & big money k's need to be moved somehow.

There needs to be an on-field & off-field remaking of the team. Didn't see this coming when I was being told what a genius Theo is all those years. He either needs to return his genius card or he tanked this team on purpose. Going with the former.

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08-15-2012, 02:10 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
Accountability starts at the top with the owners. I agree with you that no matter what the media does the players will not be accountable as a result. Its not their job to listen to the media.
I agree it starts at the top, but do you really think if this stuff was being reported the PR conscience ownership wouldn't do anything? especially if it starts effecting brick sales?

I bet we see a change going foward and this story will be in part a result.

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08-15-2012, 02:11 PM
  #56
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If this rebuild happens its going to happen through things other than FA signings. If you're a marquee player why in the hell would you sign in Boston?

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08-15-2012, 02:11 PM
  #57
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I agree it starts at the top, but do you really think if this stuff was being reported the PR conscience ownership wouldn't do anything? especially if it starts effecting brick sales?

I bet we see a change going foward and this story will be in part a result.
They should have told the players to shut up and play from the get go. They didn't and they turned this into the circus that it is.

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08-15-2012, 02:13 PM
  #58
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I don't think Theo tanked it. I just think he was overrated.

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08-15-2012, 02:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
They should have told the players to shut up and play from the get go. They didn't and they turned this into the circus that it is.
I agree 100%, that however doesn't mean the beat guys can't report any of the nonsense because the owners created it.
One has nothing to do with the other.

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08-15-2012, 02:15 PM
  #60
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I'm not sure how the media can hold the team accountable. Does anyone really think Josh Beckett cringes at the thought of Dan Shaugnessy writing a piece critical of his performance this season? I sure as hell don't. Ditto everyone else on the team.

Yes the media needs to investigate and report the facts as to why this team is having such a terrible season. I just don't see how it will make a damn bit of difference to the players. The fans are a different matter. If they have the facts they can then decide whether or not to support this organization.

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08-15-2012, 02:15 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
If this rebuild happens its going to happen through things other than FA signings. If you're a marquee player why in the hell would you sign in Boston?
they won't pay the luxury tax going foward and can' tmove any of these overpriced stiffs. This is a much bigger mess than I think some realize IMO.

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08-15-2012, 02:16 PM
  #62
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I don't think Theo tanked it. I just think he was overrated.
I agree other than the Crawford signing. Cant figure out how it fit at the time at all.

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08-15-2012, 02:17 PM
  #63
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I'm not sure how the media can hold the team accountable. Does anyone really think Josh Beckett cringes at the thought of Dan Shaugnessy writing a piece critical of his performance this season? I sure as hell don't. Ditto everyone else on the team.

Yes the media needs to investigate and report the facts as to why this team is having such a terrible season. I just don't see how it will make a damn bit of difference to the players. The fans are a different matter. If they have the facts they can then decide whether or not to support this organization.
And if the fans aren't happy they won't buy tickets and bricks, who do you think will notice that? the ownership maybe? thats how it could have an effect.

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Old
08-15-2012, 02:19 PM
  #64
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They should have told the players to shut up and play from the get go. They didn't and they turned this into the circus that it is.
This ^

It should have been spelled out from day one- this is the new manager. We will not tolerate any one going behind his back with complaints either to the front office, ownership or the media. If you do we'll fine your @$$ big time. You have a problem, go to him & discuss it. Period. Amen. End of subject.

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08-15-2012, 02:21 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post
And if the fans aren't happy they won't buy tickets and bricks, who do you think will notice that? the ownership maybe? thats how it could have an effect.
I agree it would have an effect. Absolutely.

What I am saying is that the media criticizing the players isn't going to bother the players directly in the slightest. The real impact will be felt by ownership if the fans decide to do something else with their money.

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08-15-2012, 02:22 PM
  #66
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On 98.5 Gammon just hinted that things could get worse. It sounds like we haven't heard all the nonesense.

It's time for Henry to buy some gifts and get the boat ready for another cruise.

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08-15-2012, 02:23 PM
  #67
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On 98.5 Gammon just hinted that things could get worse. It sounds like we haven't heard all the nonesense.

It's time for Henry to buy some gifts and get the boat ready for another cruise.
GET THE DUCK BOATS READY!!

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08-15-2012, 02:23 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
If this rebuild happens its going to happen through things other than FA signings. If you're a marquee player why in the hell would you sign in Boston?
$

Not the only factor, but a lot of times it's still the biggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
Accountability starts at the top with the owners. I agree with you that no matter what the media does the players will not be accountable as a result. Its not their job to listen to the media.
Regardless of the media, is it too much to ask these players to be accountable for themselves, for each other and for the fans?

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08-15-2012, 02:26 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by BMC View Post
I agree it would have an effect. Absolutely.

What I am saying is that the media criticizing the players isn't going to bother the players directly in the slightest. The real impact will be felt by ownership if the fans decide to do something else with their money.
Sure, thats what I've been attempting to get across. It's results would be indirect. I've heard nothing but pissed of fans since this story broke, not the PR ownership is looking for.

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08-15-2012, 02:27 PM
  #70
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This ^

It should have been spelled out from day one- this is the new manager. We will not tolerate any one going behind his back with complaints either to the front office, ownership or the media. If you do we'll fine your @$$ big time. You have a problem, go to him & discuss it. Period. Amen. End of subject.
Agree. Unfortunately, there are simply too many underachieving babies on this team to even do that.

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08-15-2012, 02:28 PM
  #71
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GET THE DUCK BOATS READY!!
Maybe Henry can take a sail down the cape and let these guys swim with the seals

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08-15-2012, 02:36 PM
  #72
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http://www.boston.com/sports/columni...c:on:twit:eric

Finally, there is the overriding idea that the front office and ownership has allowed this to happen. The Red Sox seem intent on appeasing their players as unprofessional behavior often goes unchallenged. The players are unhappy about a doubleheader? Bribe them off with headphones and a yacht trip. The players are out of shape? Fire the strength and conditioning coach. The players quit on the manager? Fire the manager. The players are unhappy with the new manager? Rush to New York and have a meeting with them.

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Old
08-15-2012, 02:38 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post
I agree it starts at the top, but do you really think if this stuff was being reported the PR conscience ownership wouldn't do anything? especially if it starts effecting brick sales?

I bet we see a change going foward and this story will be in part a result.
The thing is, and I know I've said this before (also - side note - I'm not just actively trying to disagree with things you say; we just have different views on this fiasco), if brick sales start to fall, the owners' coming out and talking against the players in order to "hold them accountable" won't help. Brick sales are based on people thinking the team is worth putting money into. Why do you guys want brick sales to go down (not that I'd ever but a brick myself or that I'd ever suggest you guys buy bricks)? First of all, they're such a minor thing. Stop trying to turn them into a symbol for something that they're not. Secondly, more money earned means they can spend more money on the team (I know a lack of money isn't the issue, but money still helps). But what I'm saying is that because of the owners' interest in keeping ticket sales (and I guess brick sales) high, they will never come out and bash the team. With very few exceptions (like maybe Jerry Jones or Al Davis), owners just don't do that. For any team in any sport.

If you're looking for someone to hold the team accountable, don't look to ownership. Look to the manager. But unfortunately, it seems like the players don't respond well to his holding them accountable. Which is why I am putting almost all of the blame for this season on the players themselves. Not their baby sitters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
If this rebuild happens its going to happen through things other than FA signings. If you're a marquee player why in the hell would you sign in Boston?
$$$. We'd have to outbid teams by a decent margin, but thanks to good ownership, we do have some money.

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Originally Posted by BMC View Post
I'm not sure how the media can hold the team accountable. Does anyone really think Josh Beckett cringes at the thought of Dan Shaugnessy writing a piece critical of his performance this season? I sure as hell don't. Ditto everyone else on the team.

Yes the media needs to investigate and report the facts as to why this team is having such a terrible season. I just don't see how it will make a damn bit of difference to the players. The fans are a different matter. If they have the facts they can then decide whether or not to support this organization.
That's exactly what I'm saying. Thank you. Well, until you got to the part about fans. Speaking of which...

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Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post
And if the fans aren't happy they won't buy tickets and bricks, who do you think will notice that? the ownership maybe? thats how it could have an effect.
Again, read my comment to you other post. If the fans stop supporting the organization, that can only hurt. Ownership won't bash the team in order to "hold them accountable" nor should they. Less fan support will only mean less money for the team to spend. I mean, that's not to say that fans should just keep supporting the team. The ways things like that works is you have to have a good product in order to get money, and if the product continues to suffer, the number of fans will inevitably decrease. But to think that that will help the team is wrong.

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08-15-2012, 02:40 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post
http://www.boston.com/sports/columni...c:on:twit:eric

Finally, there is the overriding idea that the front office and ownership has allowed this to happen. The Red Sox seem intent on appeasing their players as unprofessional behavior often goes unchallenged. The players are unhappy about a doubleheader? Bribe them off with headphones and a yacht trip. The players are out of shape? Fire the strength and conditioning coach. The players quit on the manager? Fire the manager. The players are unhappy with the new manager? Rush to New York and have a meeting with them.
I can agree with some of that. But I can't agree that doing the opposite (bashing the players) would be in the best interest of the owners.

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08-15-2012, 02:43 PM
  #75
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I can agree with some of that. But I can't agree that doing the opposite (bashing the players) would be in the best interest of the owners.
It's not about bashing, it's about covering the team and reporting things good or bad. If these guys know they won't get thrown under the bus, they aren't going to worry about how they act, they've proven that.

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