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It's been another long off-season.... What are your lines for next year?

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Old
08-13-2012, 11:14 AM
  #301
Asher
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Originally Posted by Kreator View Post
I really wish we had a good 2C...
It could make our team so much better. Instead we have a million 3C's.

Nsoilfan... I'd rather have #19 than #6 right now.
Because of health concerns Whitney is debatable, but he's got Potter ahead of Schultz. There's no way that's happening. Potter is 6-7 guy. My guess is that he'll be sent down to OKC. That means possibly losing him on waivers, but I think they're willing to take that chance. The other scenario would be to send Peckham down, but from an optics point of view losing him would probably look worse.

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08-13-2012, 12:02 PM
  #302
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Well I wouldn't pencil 19 into anything less than top 4.
So 44 and 24 weren't even an issue.

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08-13-2012, 02:29 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
In the all time list of things that will never happen, that ranks pretty high. Implicit in Schultz's signing here was the opportunity to play with the big club all year and the Oilers aren't going to taint their relationship with him and all future free agents by reneging.

He would have to really, really, struggle to be sent down to OKC.
I thought this was just here say and never realy happened.

Schultz has openly said that he did not demand to be on any team before he would sign and he expects to make the team just like everyone else.

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08-13-2012, 02:32 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Kreator View Post
Well I wouldn't pencil 19 into anything less than top 4.
So 44 and 24 weren't even an issue.
The way I see it:

5 - 2
6 - 25
15 - 19
44,24

This way, we have an offensive and a defensive Dman in every pairing. Our 3,4,5,6 Dmen, are all top-4 (maybe not Sutton).

If Whitney plays to 80%+, we should be fine.

Carlson could help bump Sutton out of the top 6

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Old
08-13-2012, 02:43 PM
  #305
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hehe I'm kinda excited to see Petry in #2

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08-13-2012, 06:02 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Kreator View Post
I really wish we had a good 2C...
It could make our team so much better. Instead we have a million 3C's.

Nsoilfan... I'd rather have #19 than #6 right now.
Gagner's a 2c.

He was 39th in scoring last year and that's his avg point total. He also avg's 75 games/season and he's only 23.

Your expectations are a bit out of whack, it seems like what you're really looking for there is a proven #1c who's willing to play on Edm's 2nd line.

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08-13-2012, 06:37 PM
  #307
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Points are OK.
But I want a 2-way 2C.
I dont think Sam can become that.

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08-14-2012, 02:09 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreator View Post
Points are OK.
But I want a 2-way 2C.
I dont think Sam can become that.
Got the best defensive results of any Oilers forward last year.

Your argument is thin.

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08-14-2012, 03:38 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Got the best defensive results of any Oilers forward last year.

Your argument is thin.
So Gagner is suddenly the best defensive forward on the Oilers? Funny they don't use him on the PK more then.

You're putting WAY too much faith in +/- and even if you believe that to be a good indicator of defensive awareness (which it isn't) look at Gagner's career numbers before just last year... not so pretty.

Gagner is an ok, smallish, slowish decent offensive center with average defensive abilities (at best) and mediocre faceoff skills. He's the best option they have in a #2 centre but he certainly isn't an ideal option.

I and many others here would much rather have a bigger centre with better faceoff and defensive skills and who plays more physical. Hard to find that floating around anywhere for a reasonable price of course which is why we have to make do with Gagner at that spot.

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08-14-2012, 04:04 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Got the best defensive results of any Oilers forward last year.

Your argument is thin.
That's asinine.

I think we've all heard enough Gagner stats but in reality he's not a two way player.

I don't know how people can say he is. I guess if you look at +/- and never watch the team play you'd think that but +/- is a dumb stat.

Fact is Gagner doesn't add much than secondary production. His defense is average at best. He isn't physical and he gets over matche by literally every other center in hockey.

Now this would be okay if Joe Thornton was our 1c but unfortunately we have a finesse player as out 1c who makes Gagner redundant.

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08-14-2012, 05:38 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Got the best defensive results of any Oilers forward last year.

Your argument is thin.
Gagner? Best? Defensive?


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08-14-2012, 12:56 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
So Gagner is suddenly the best defensive forward on the Oilers? Funny they don't use him on the PK more then.

You're putting WAY too much faith in +/- and even if you believe that to be a good indicator of defensive awareness (which it isn't) look at Gagner's career numbers before just last year... not so pretty.

Gagner is an ok, smallish, slowish decent offensive center with average defensive abilities (at best) and mediocre faceoff skills. He's the best option they have in a #2 centre but he certainly isn't an ideal option.

I and many others here would much rather have a bigger centre with better faceoff and defensive skills and who plays more physical. Hard to find that floating around anywhere for a reasonable price of course which is why we have to make do with Gagner at that spot.
I'm kind of salty right now, so this is going to be more prickly than usual.

You need to stop pretending you've looked at the whole statistical picture on every argument: You haven't. Each and every argument you make in this way demontrates some sort of bias towards one particular hypothesis, which anyone can make with these numbers.

I never said he was the best defensive player on the team, I said he had the best results. He did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
That's asinine.

I think we've all heard enough Gagner stats but in reality he's not a two way player.

I don't know how people can say he is. I guess if you look at +/- and never watch the team play you'd think that but +/- is a dumb stat.

Fact is Gagner doesn't add much than secondary production. His defense is average at best. He isn't physical and he gets over matche by literally every other center in hockey.

Now this would be okay if Joe Thornton was our 1c but unfortunately we have a finesse player as out 1c who makes Gagner redundant.
It's more than plus minus.

Scoring chances, ES GA vs ES GF, GAON vs GAOFF.

He was simply the best all-around Oiler forward last year in terms of outscoring, and his defensive numbers were all around good for a 29th placed team.

Which, again, if you look at the context of the statement this dude made. He said that he wished we had a 2C, which someone demonstrated his offense clearly puts him that category. The guy poo-pooed the points and said he wanted defense, but Gagner got the best results in that category.

Some members of this board have to accept a certain degree of subtletly in the game of hockey that they don't see. I don't believe Gagner is a tremendous defensive player, but I do believe that he was not getting lit up when he wasn't scoring or producing. To pull that off from a club like this clearly outweighs the opinion of some random on a message board about his board work or faceoff prowess.

Because frankly, no other C on the team pulled it off and that wasn't a happy accident over a 75 game sample.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Gagner? Best? Defensive?

Image meme as a response.

You should change your name to The Boring Man.

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:07 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
I'm kind of salty right now, so this is going to be more prickly than usual.



Image meme as a response.

You should change your name to The Boring Man.
Very salty. On the bright side, you'll be feeling better in, say, two weeks' time?

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08-15-2012, 04:48 AM
  #314
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Eh... its hardly worth debating because it all goes around in circles.

You have the pro-Gagner crowd (he's improving and on the verge of a breakout), the anti-Gagner crowd (stagnating, smallish and will never be more than a one-dimensional player) and those in the middle who can actually see and agree with elements of both sides.

Honestly I feel I'm in the middle group. I certainly see his flaws and limitations... physically, defensively, speedwise and in the faceoff department... BUT I also think he has decent offensive skills AND the guy has heart and a work ethic basically unrivalled on the team. I'd like nothing more than to see him break out and reach another level... offensively/defensively, on faceoffs, improving his physicality and puck possesion/battling skills, improving footspeed etc.

I'm an Oilers fan first and foremost and if Gagner steps it up I'll be one of the first to trumpet his ascension... because the team needs a solid all-around #2 centre ... BADLY, and if he can become that then more power to him.

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08-15-2012, 04:54 PM
  #315
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You're all forgetting Hordi!

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08-15-2012, 04:59 PM
  #316
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How about a 3rd line of
Paajarvi-Horcoff-Yakupov ? Speed skill with some defensive awareness at the middle.

Smyth gets moved up to top 6.

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08-15-2012, 05:45 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
How about a 3rd line of
Paajarvi-Horcoff-Yakupov ? Speed skill with some defensive awareness at the middle.

Smyth gets moved up to top 6.
I would prefer to have the guy with the best shot on the team playing with a talented playmaker (Hemsky or RNH).

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08-15-2012, 06:02 PM
  #318
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For those putting Paajarvi in the starting lineup, it would be nice to also write which of Petrell, Peckham or Potter you propose to put on waivers to make room for him.


Last edited by Bergeron47: 08-15-2012 at 07:14 PM.
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08-15-2012, 06:09 PM
  #319
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For those putting Paajarvi in the starting lineup, it would be nice to also write which of Purcell, Peckham or Potter you propose to put on waivers to make room for him.
If we had Teddy Purcell, I definitely would want him in the line-up over Paajarvi. I am a little less concerned about losing Lennart Petrell.

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08-15-2012, 06:14 PM
  #320
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Lennart Purcell?

Teddy Petrell?

Lenny Peckman?

IM SO CONFUSED

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08-15-2012, 11:36 PM
  #321
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delete


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08-15-2012, 11:47 PM
  #322
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For those putting Paajarvi in the starting lineup, it would be nice to also write which of Petrell, Peckham or Potter you propose to put on waivers to make room for him.
Any of them, quite easily. But if you want an order, I'd go Potter, Petrell, then Peckham.

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08-16-2012, 01:34 AM
  #323
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Paajaarvi needs more seasoning, 4th line should be:

Hordichuk-Petrell-Eager

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08-16-2012, 05:21 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by ninetynine View Post
Paajaarvi needs more seasoning, 4th line should be:

Hordichuk-Petrell-Eager
I think it depends on how he does in camp but our top 6 is STACKED so he would benefit more in the AHL,

Hemsky-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Gagner-Yakupov

That is a pretty sick top 6

I dont think Petrell plays C. Belanger is a solid 4C. He can win FO's and is good defensively.

Eager-Belanger-Petrell
Hordichuk

is a solid fourth line IMO


Last edited by pSlayer*: 08-16-2012 at 05:27 AM.
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Old
08-16-2012, 09:28 AM
  #325
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There is nothing wrong with playing in the AHL

this is one area where $ on contracts have to change a bit to convince the Euro's to come over and develope in the AHL instread of developing in the Euro leagues on big ice and a completely different game.

i dont think there is anything wrong with playing Schultz, PRV, Hart, Omark in the AHL to start the year, it gives us quality guys to play on the farm and develope and it also give us guys who develope togeather so when they come to play for the oilers they are already up todate with our systems/ Staff/ players/ ect.

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