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The Lockout Thread Part I

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08-14-2012, 01:24 PM
  #101
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Something I never thought I'd say,

Here's some useful thoughts from Eklund (!):

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...r-less/1/46080

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08-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #102
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PA's Counteroffer

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...o-make-a-deal/

Quote:
The nuts and bolts of the NHLPA offer are:

– Proposed three-year collective bargaining agreement, with an option for a fourth. (link)

– The fourth year is an option to revert to the current CBA. (link)

– Players are willing to take a lower HHR (hockey related revenue) share over the next three years. (link)

– Current rules for player salaries, contract lengths and free agent eligibility would remain unchanged. (link)

– Deal would include a hard salary cap “with some exceptions.” (link)

– One exception appears to be a luxury tax. (link)

As for the tone of and reaction to the meeting, Fehr said the talks were “frank” and “certainly professional,” but added that players and owners “don’t see the world the same way.”
All below information is by Aaron Ward of TSN.

Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl

Sense is the NHL believes todays proposal from the NHLPA was better than what was expected.No details on proposal yet. #CBA #TSN First impression of NHLPA proposal was that it was not a 'counter attack' in response to the League's July 13th proposal. #TSN. Second impression was that it possessed economic elements that were 'interesting' to the League. #TSN. Proposal theme is to partner with the stronger teams in league to help smaller market/struggling teams.In past as revenues go up,cap goes up.Now players share will grow at an artificially slower rate.If revenue grows at least by 7%, owners would keep $465 million.Rev grew at 9% this year and at 10.2% year before which means teams could stand to make double.In essence players are saying,go for it,make money and Grow the game and keep what's leftover and in the 4th year the Players have the option to revert back to present system at 57%. Parameters in proposal as to how that money is used to help teams 'in need'. #TSN

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08-14-2012, 03:08 PM
  #103
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I figure if I ignore this whole story, it will work out like with the NFL. Right?

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08-14-2012, 06:48 PM
  #104
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I have confidence that with the outcome of the meetings today, this thing might actually get done in a timely manner. Kudos to Don Fehr and the NHLPA for not letting their egos get the best of them (so far). Gary Bettman should really be given the axe. Send him back to the NBA, let him ruin some other sport.

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08-15-2012, 12:07 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
I have confidence that with the outcome of the meetings today, this thing might actually get done in a timely manner. Kudos to Don Fehr and the NHLPA for not letting their egos get the best of them (so far). Gary Bettman should really be given the axe. Send him back to the NBA, let him ruin some other sport.
Honestly, I don't think that initial proposal is Bettman's. I think at this point he's basically acting as a mouthpiece.

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08-15-2012, 08:15 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Honestly, I don't think that initial proposal is Bettman's. I think at this point he's basically acting as a mouthpiece.
Bettman plays his role. While I can see people being disgruntled with him, I don't get the level of angst. Fans reaction to him is just now a source of comedy to me now, it used to be puzzlement.

I'm curious to see how the next week plays out, I'm holding reservation on the counter proposal for a bit. I want to see more because my initial reaction based on these like in this thread seemed to be "punt". That can't be accurate, so I need to do more digging and I didn't get a chance last night.

Reading the TSN article after I posted the above, I see that I need far more information to digest what the union proposed to make any real educated response.

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08-15-2012, 08:40 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Honestly, I don't think that initial proposal is Bettman's. I think at this point he's basically acting as a mouthpiece.
Meh. The president always takes the blame when the country's people get mad. Bettman is the fall guy.

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08-15-2012, 08:57 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Meh. The president always takes the blame when the country's people get mad. Bettman is the fall guy.
Yeah well the fans have been perpetually mad at Bettman for pretty much ever. Not sure I would use that analogy. With Congress at 10% approval, it's not like they get booed every time they talk to a crowd.

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08-15-2012, 09:06 AM
  #109
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I don't understand why Bettman is booed by any Columbus fans. A lot of good things have happened to Columbus under Bettman.

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08-15-2012, 11:44 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Yeah well the fans have been perpetually mad at Bettman for pretty much ever. Not sure I would use that analogy. With Congress at 10% approval, it's not like they get booed every time they talk to a crowd.
That's because most constituencies like their individual congressman. It's the ones they don't vote for who cause the problems

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08-15-2012, 01:25 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hip check View Post
I don't understand why Bettman is booed by any Columbus fans. A lot of good things have happened to Columbus under Bettman.
Because if we don't then folks don't take us seriously as a hockey market.

Not that they do anyways, but there'd be even more folks disdaining us...

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08-15-2012, 04:07 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
I have confidence that with the outcome of the meetings today, this thing might actually get done in a timely manner. Kudos to Don Fehr and the NHLPA for not letting their egos get the best of them (so far). Gary Bettman should really be given the axe. Send him back to the NBA, let him ruin some other sport.
I have no confidence. Expect a lockout, maybe a long one

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08-15-2012, 08:49 PM
  #113
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Dont get too excited about the season starting on time

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403156

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08-15-2012, 09:29 PM
  #114
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Still time, talk is talk, until the deadline date comes I won't be too worried.

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08-15-2012, 09:33 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Dont get too excited about the season starting on time

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403156
Well, that sucked.

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08-15-2012, 10:05 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Dont get too excited about the season starting on time

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403156
The owners are going to have to be less bullish to get the deal done at all, let alone on time.

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08-16-2012, 06:12 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
The owners are going to have to be less bullish to get the deal done at all, let alone on time.
I'm beginning to side with the players - their proposal seemed reasonable to me.

But to me there are two big issues. One is the cap and if it is allowed to rise with revenues then the smaller market teams are at a perpetual disadvantage. The second is the revenue sharing point-without a better split, the smaller market teams are again always disadvantaged.

I'd shoot for something like the 50/50 split of revenues to start and unbundling the cap from revenues. Let it go up, but not at the same pace as revenues unless the revenue sharing was equitable and it too rose with revenues and the cap.

Why they wait until the end to negotiate these things amaze me - same as players who decide to have surgery to correct a chronic problem a week before a season starts.

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08-16-2012, 07:36 AM
  #118
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From the video on TSN's page, it sounds like the owners want a model closer to the NBA's, and the players want a model closer to what MLB has....no real shocker there with Fehr in charge. If thats true, this thing wont be settled for quite a while

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08-16-2012, 08:16 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I'm beginning to side with the players - their proposal seemed reasonable to me.
They certainly sound like they are reasonable. However, it seems to me my initial reaction was accurate on everything But revenue sharing. They ignored everything else in the owners proposal and focused on revenue sharing. They did make concessions on pct of revenue moving forward.

It's a start, but I wouldn't give the player anything beyond a D+ for the first attempt based on what I've seen. That's better than the owners F, but there was almost no chance the owners were going to go with what was proposed.

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08-16-2012, 09:09 AM
  #120
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You know. The more and more I think about this, the more and more likely I am going to start to treat hockey like other sports. I had a deep love for the game, but when people start discussing a 50/50 player/owner split and rational and good I start to question all rationality.

Start to consider all the expenses involved with the other 50 percent of the revenue, all the way from GM's to coaching staffs to trainers to ice girls. How does all this get paid for? Some of it is from media revenue, in which a team like Columbus can not keep up with the larger market teams. The local population will only pay so much for a ticket. Eventually you simply get to a point that a market like ours can not raise ticket prices and can not get additional revenue from other sources. We will only pay so much for a beer. Meanwhile you get mocked by the pompous ass fans of the larger market teams.

Frankly when is the last time that you talked to the owner of our company (or the board) and told them how much people of your job function should receive in a paycheck as a percentage of overall company revenue? You would get laughed out of the office.

Frankly, these fights really make me consider even my now really modest investment in the team. The only reason I do it now is so that I go to a few games and help keep the team local so I can watch the team on TV. I'm not even sure how much I care to spend my money on playoff tickets now.

The steady increase in revenue with the widening gap in have's .vs. have nots, on top of the player being greedy frigin ********, on top of the large market teams exploiting their revenue streams..... I can go on and on.

I'll be honest, I'm getting to the point I've got bigger things to worry about in my life without listening to these jack holes squabbling. My heart bleeds for none of them. Owners fighting owners, players fighting owners. Meanwhile every last one of them has a pretty good lifestyle. Me? I'm just trying to figure out retirement while perhaps helping a future blahblah junior go to college.

Screw every last one of the player and owners. I love hockey, but the rest of them? The only thing that makes me not turn away from it is my love for the game on top of the players that make a difference in the community. Why should I care about these jackholes, when the best times this fanbase will have is if we build a consistent playoff contender with a once a decade realistic chance (if we are lucky) at a Cup run. Where the best you can hope for is maybe to model ourselves after the Preds.

I have no tolerance for this. The upcoming Presidential election is far more important.

Increasing the number of playoff teams to increase interest and soak every last dollar they can out of us? Screw that and screw them. I am not a frigin lemming.

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08-16-2012, 09:30 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Frankly, these fights really make me consider even my now really modest investment in the team. The only reason I do it now is so that I go to a few games and help keep the team local so I can watch the team on TV. I'm not even sure how much I care to spend my money on playoff tickets now.

The steady increase in revenue with the widening gap in have's .vs. have nots, on top of the player being greedy frigin ********, on top of the large market teams exploiting their revenue streams..... I can go on and on.

I'll be honest, I'm getting to the point I've got bigger things to worry about in my life without listening to these jack holes squabbling. My heart bleeds for none of them. Owners fighting owners, players fighting owners. Meanwhile every last one of them has a pretty good lifestyle. Me? I'm just trying to figure out retirement while perhaps helping a future blahblah junior go to college.

Screw every last one of the player and owners. I love hockey, but the rest of them? The only thing that makes me not turn away from it is my love for the game on top of the players that make a difference in the community. Why should I care about these jackholes, when the best times this fanbase will have is if we build a consistent playoff contender with a once a decade realistic chance (if we are lucky) at a Cup run. Where the best you can hope for is maybe to model ourselves after the Preds.
Exactly my thoughts. Thanks for expressing them so well. I was beginning to wonder if mine were "Irrational" due to lack of sleep from editing a good portion of the night, and spending my limited time to promote this sport, these players, and the owner.

yeah I feel like a total schmuck for doing it.

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08-16-2012, 10:03 AM
  #122
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Here we go again. Thought cooler heads might prevail this time after the last work stoppage but that was wishful thinking. Last time I sided mosly with the owners thinking the cap would help the small market teams stay competitive. This time I lean towards the players (they gave up quite a bit last time). No matter the end result, nobody will win if there is another delay. And the fans who support the game for the owners/players will be the ones who suffer the most. I wish I didn't love the game so much so I wouldn't have to care if there was a season or not.

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08-16-2012, 10:14 AM
  #123
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As long as they settle their **** before October, I don't really care who splits what. Just get me some damn hockey.

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08-16-2012, 10:15 AM
  #124
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The biggest point Bla made was 'how much does it cost to run a team'. The players portion, save taxes, and good ole union dues, is pretty much all profit. The owners are the ones paying for the flights, hotel rooms, facilities, staff,player payroll, etc. I cant think its a small amount. The tv rights equate to nothing once you split it up among 30 teams....maybe 1 mid tier player. The last lockout taught me that I enjoy playing the game much more then watching it. Looks like they'll just be further cementing that, especially with Fehr at the helm

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08-16-2012, 11:25 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Looks like they'll just be further cementing that, especially with Fehr at the helm
We are knocking at the door to the 3rd lockout under Bettman. And you are putting blame upon Fehr of the MLBPA who led the players union through 1 strike, and baseball hasnt had a labor interruption in 15 plus years?

I personally have great admiration for Fehr and think this guy has great vision. IMO, he is fully aware of strengthening the league which in turn benefits both ownership and the NHLPA.

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