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Wayne Simmonds Signs Extension (per media: 6 years, $3.84m cap hit)

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08-16-2012, 10:26 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I agree that the trades were savvy, smart, and necessary (although only necessary due to prior screwups and the mindboggling need to throw in a 2nd round pick with every deal).

The term "brilliant" gets thrown around far too much around here when discussing a GM who has had his ups and downs, but has not brought a Cup yet, nor does it look like one is in the immediate future. And the team now needs to go through another mini-rebuild.
The returns for both are very very good.
You look at trades like these and you often wonder where the value is for the team trading away the best player. Examples: Joe Thornton, Rick Nash, Dany Heatley, Chris Pronger.

Now, I understand every single one was in different scenarios, but there is now denying that it is hard to get actual value back for a star player. Homer did just that. Twice. In one hour.

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08-16-2012, 10:28 AM
  #77
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Schenn, Grossman, Simmonds, Voracek, Couts, and Cousins for Carter and Richards wasn't brilliant? :S It is so hard to win the cup. Yes, the Kings did win the cup with those two guys, but it is so much different. In Philly Carter and Richards were the main players on the team that HAD to get it done. With the Kings their defense and Quick, and Richards and Carter being 2nd line guys was just a bonus the kings had. Only way the Flyers could have won the cup with Richards and Carter was to strike Quick gold in the draft for a goalie.
The got to game 6 of the Stanley Cup with Stupid. If we had above average goaltending that series, we most likely win the cup that year.

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08-16-2012, 10:38 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
The returns for both are very very good.
You look at trades like these and you often wonder where the value is for the team trading away the best player. Examples: Joe Thornton, Rick Nash, Dany Heatley, Chris Pronger.

Now, I understand every single one was in different scenarios, but there is now denying that it is hard to get actual value back for a star player. Homer did just that. Twice. In one hour.
Three of the four in your example demanded a trade, which almost guarantees a poor return for the team who has been forced into making a deal. Homer didn't have to deal with any of that ********, and was dealing players who have a great deal of value both in terms of playing ability and their attractive cap hits.

Not equal. Not even close. If Homer had been taken to the cleaners on either of those trades, he should have been fired on the spot.

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08-16-2012, 10:40 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
The got to game 6 of the Stanley Cup with Stupid. If we had above average goaltending that series, we most likely win the cup that year.
Shhh. That kind of logic doesn't sit well with the Stepfords. It makes people feel better to maintain that only a goalie like Quick would have brought the Cup to Philadelphia while Richards and Carter were here.

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08-16-2012, 10:43 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
and was dealing players who have a great deal of value both in terms of playing ability and their attractive cap hits.
Guess who's responsible for those cap-hits?

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08-16-2012, 10:59 AM
  #81
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I don't just like this deal, I love it.

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08-16-2012, 11:00 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
The got to game 6 of the Stanley Cup with Stupid. If we had above average goaltending that series, we most likely win the cup that year.
Yes, you are right. But where were the Flyers going to get their above average goalie being pressed against the cap and not being able to trade Carter or Richards? The Kings has the luxury of a top line, solid defense, and stud goaltender before adding Richards and Carter.

If the Kings called up Homer and said lets trade back Richards for Schenn, Simmonds, and pick would you? I love Richards and Carter, but making it to the cup finals was probably the peak of that team. If you couldve swapped out Briere for Kopitar and Leighton for quick, flyers are probably looking at a dynasty, but look what happened 2 years ago, almost losing to Buffalo and then getting demolished by Boston. It wouldve took striking gold in the draft for the Flyers to have a chance.

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08-16-2012, 11:18 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Two differences: Those 5 players come with a much higher cap hit (hell, pick any two in a year or two), and Richards/Carter have a Cup. Until the Flyers also raise the Cup, the term "brilliant" is a huge exaggeration.
Right, because if we didn't trade Carter and Richards WE would've won the cup last season.

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08-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #84
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I dont see how this deal affects Hartnell next offseason. Holmgren knows he is an important part of this team. This is a 2 million dollar bump up in salary for Simmonds, less then the cost of Shelley and Fedotenko coming off the books after next offseason.
Hartnell will be resigned. book it.

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08-16-2012, 11:25 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
Aaaaaaand hes traded.

Just kidding.

I love the deal and I love the player. Not a bad cap hit for everything he provides.
haha, i was gunna post the same thing..

still not sure why this signing means Hartsis on the way out..

easily room for both. and Hartsy is born to be a Flyer.. hes pure grit.

i'll admit i wanted him traded very early last season (before the news broke he was playing with a bum wrist from injury).. but now i see no reason to release him back to the sea.

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08-16-2012, 12:00 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Guess who's responsible for those cap-hits?
I'd say it was both Holmgren and the players involved. But I guess you'll say that it was Homer's mind control that forced Richards and Carter to sign below market value.

Have at 'er. You think he's a God. I'm pissed that the Flyers are no closer to the Cup today than they were 10 or 12 years ago, and are farther away than they were a couple of years ago.

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08-16-2012, 12:06 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'd say it was both Holmgren and the players involved. But I guess you'll say that it was Homer's mind control that forced Richards and Carter to sign below market value.

Have at 'er. You think he's a God. I'm pissed that the Flyers are no closer to the Cup today than they were 10 or 12 years ago, and are farther away than they were a couple of years ago.
I don't think he's God. He made the most out of a miserable situation.
He clearly didn't want to trade those guys, Snider wanted to. Be mad at Snider.

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08-16-2012, 12:11 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I don't think he's God. He made the most out of a miserable situation.
He clearly didn't want to trade those guys, Snider wanted to. Be mad at Snider.
If Holmgren hadn't **** the bed in getting a real goalie instead of MFL, the Flyers win the Cup and Mr. Snyder doesn't give a rat's ass what happens in the dressing room or anywhere else. He considers Richards a hero for captaining the team to a Cup, and every other player on that team is treated like a king (no pun intended) in this city forever.

Holmgren hasn't been all bad (far from it) but he's also the dimwit who has messed up the salary cap time and time again, overpaid for marginal players, and had to make kneejerk deals to dig his way out. He's not brilliant. He's not a genius. He's a GM who has done a relatively good job in icing a competitive team.

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08-16-2012, 12:33 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'd say it was both Holmgren and the players involved. But I guess you'll say that it was Homer's mind control that forced Richards and Carter to sign below market value.

Have at 'er. You think he's a God. I'm pissed that the Flyers are no closer to the Cup today than they were 10 or 12 years ago, and are farther away than they were a couple of years ago.
The Flyers are in the same position they were prior to the Pronger trade except they have an NHL caliber goalie this time around.

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08-16-2012, 12:35 PM
  #90
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The Flyers are in the same position they were prior to the Pronger trade except they have an NHL caliber goalie this time around.
eh...maybe. It's yet to be seen that Bryz is any better than Biron. Or Emery. Or Boucher, even.

Ideally, that happens this season.

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08-16-2012, 12:36 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Two differences: Those 5 players come with a much higher cap hit (hell, pick any two in a year or two), and Richards/Carter have a Cup. Until the Flyers also raise the Cup, the term "brilliant" is a huge exaggeration.
First time I have read a Flyers fan state this "argument". Ridiculous and irrelevant.

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08-16-2012, 12:42 PM
  #92
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eh...maybe. It's yet to be seen that Bryz is any better than Biron. Or Emery. Or Boucher, even.

Ideally, that happens this season.
At his best, as we have seen, he is definitely better than those you mentioned. What we need from him is better consistency.

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08-16-2012, 12:46 PM
  #93
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At his best, as we have seen, he is definitely better than those you mentioned. What we need from him is better consistency.
I'll take a .920 spread over the whole season over .890 for 5 months, with one exceptional month.

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08-16-2012, 12:52 PM
  #94
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First time I have read a Flyers fan state this "argument". Ridiculous and irrelevant.
It's very relevant when we're discussing the performance of a GM. Lombardi built his team logically and carefully, and has a Cup to show for it. Shero in Pittsburgh did the same (although he had some luck built in). Holmgren has not and has nothing but his willy in his hand. Sather has been brutal and has nothing to show for it in the last 18 years. Various and assorted GM's in Toronto have sucked terribly and don't have a Cup.

How else can you judge a GM's performance? Good, but not good enough, is not acceptable.

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08-16-2012, 12:57 PM
  #95
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It's very relevant when we're discussing the performance of a GM. Lombardi built his team logically and carefully, and has a Cup to show for it. Shero in Pittsburgh did the same (although he had some luck built in). Holmgren has not and has nothing but his willy in his hand. Sather has been brutal and has nothing to show for it in the last 18 years. Various and assorted GM's in Toronto have sucked terribly and don't have a Cup.

How else can you judge a GM's performance? Good, but not good enough, is not acceptable.
Good job, you turned a thread about signing a player into a richards debate...........


Great signing for the flyers. Good length and cap hit. If this guy repeats his season the contract is going to be a steal.

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08-16-2012, 12:58 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
If Holmgren hadn't **** the bed in getting a real goalie instead of MFL, the Flyers win the Cup and Mr. Snyder doesn't give a rat's ass what happens in the dressing room or anywhere else. He considers Richards a hero for captaining the team to a Cup, and every other player on that team is treated like a king (no pun intended) in this city forever.

Holmgren hasn't been all bad (far from it) but he's also the dimwit who has messed up the salary cap time and time again, overpaid for marginal players, and had to make kneejerk deals to dig his way out. He's not brilliant. He's not a genius. He's a GM who has done a relatively good job in icing a competitive team.
We had one, he got injured. This happens, especially on the Flyers.

Emery was really good that year before getting injured and playing with the injury for a while. There really wasn't a huge upgrade on the market and Leighton played well in the regular season.

We also could've won the cup that year if one of your beloved boys would've hit the net a couple of times.
Don't get me wrong, Richie is still my favorite player but it's time to let go.

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08-16-2012, 01:06 PM
  #97
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Aaaaaaand hes traded.


I wonder if this is what Homer does to players/agents when they say they have a contract with the team.

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08-16-2012, 01:08 PM
  #98
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I wonder if this is what Homer does to players/agents when they say they have a contract with the team.
It would be funny is Simmonds were trading in a deal for Ryan

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08-16-2012, 01:09 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
If Holmgren hadn't **** the bed in getting a real goalie instead of MFL, the Flyers win the Cup and Mr. Snyder doesn't give a rat's ass what happens in the dressing room or anywhere else. He considers Richards a hero for captaining the team to a Cup, and every other player on that team is treated like a king (no pun intended) in this city forever.

Holmgren hasn't been all bad (far from it) but he's also the dimwit who has messed up the salary cap time and time again, overpaid for marginal players, and had to make kneejerk deals to dig his way out. He's not brilliant. He's not a genius. He's a GM who has done a relatively good job in icing a competitive team.
They had one named Ray Emery, but he was hurt all year. What do you want from him? He had a stacked lineup and the goaltender he signed at a good price to fix the net was hurt.

You're unnecessarily angry with Holmgren.

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08-16-2012, 01:24 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
It's very relevant when we're discussing the performance of a GM. Lombardi built his team logically and carefully, and has a Cup to show for it. Shero in Pittsburgh did the same (although he had some luck built in). Holmgren has not and has nothing but his willy in his hand. Sather has been brutal and has nothing to show for it in the last 18 years. Various and assorted GM's in Toronto have sucked terribly and don't have a Cup.

How else can you judge a GM's performance? Good, but not good enough, is not acceptable.
I refuse to give GMs credit for building a very good team from a bunch of Top 5 picks. When the Oilers become a great team, I don't want to hear a word about how great of a GM Steve Tambellini is because, it's nonsense.

Shero inherited Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Orpik, MAF and drafted an obvious Staal. As far as I can tell, all Shero has done is get James Neal. Let's be real and say Malkin and Crosby alone make that team a contender. So I'm not giving Shero much credit at all.

Lombardi also was handed the core of his team through the draft. I know it's possible to have busts (Hickey), but most Top 5-10 picks will be locks. He had many of those as the Kings were awful for a while. I'll give him credit for this past year of course, but I am not convinced he's a better GM than Holmgren.

I respect GMs more that get a great player from late draft picks, continually try to improve their team for immediate future, and make pretty good trades. Holmgren really does all of those things.

Perhaps we value different things or I'm just crazy, but Holmgren is getting unnecessary slack here. God, I hate having a GM that does everything he can to acquire top players like Parise, Suter, Weber, Briere, Timonen, Pronger, etc.

What an awful GM

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