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Old
08-04-2012, 09:17 PM
  #26
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I expect the first unit to be this

Z- Datsyuk - Franzen
Kronwall - Sammy

Until camp happens and the rosters are set I have no idea what the second unit will be. Smith should play over White in my opinion but we will have to wait and see. Quincey and Filppula are locks for that unit outside of that it remains to be seen. Could see Cleary being the net front guy over Bert if he is healthy.

Cleary/Bert - Filppula - Brunner/Nyquist (Nyquist and Cleary would switch wings)
Quincey - Smith/White

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08-04-2012, 11:12 PM
  #27
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i post only the pp player.
thats what we have.

Fringe Player - Datsyuk - Franzen
Kronwall - Fringe Player

Flip - Z - Fringe Player
Fringe Player - Fringe Player

that equals 4 top-6 player and 1 top-4 defenseman.

To me it looks like we have just to many Fringe Player in our pp lineup. is that maybe the reason for our bad pp% last year?
bert, cleary or other 3rd line guys are not the solution to our problems nor is helm. i still hope 2 top-6 player coming out of nowhere to the wings. but even then we still need 1-2 top4 defender.

I think it will be an improvement to get less shortys then last year. everything else would be on top and nice to have.

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08-06-2012, 08:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by VladTheImpaler View Post
Brunner is 26 and led a pro league in scoring last year, while playing very well in the WC's.

He is ripe
The year 2005-06 and the names Kirby Law and Donald MacLean come to mind.

Law led the AHL in assists and points, MacLean led in goals and was 7th in points.

Both were 28. MacLean played 3 games with the Wings that season, 9 with Phoenix the following season, and then his 41-game NHL career was over (he retired professionally after playing in Austria in 2010-11), while Law played nine NHL games in his life, all before that season. Law retired after five more seasons; four seasons in Switzerland, split in the middle by a year in the KHL.

So the question is how do you compare the talent level of the Swiss league Brunner comes from to the AHL that MacLean and Law (and a 21 year-old Jiri Hudler) dominated. I've heard it generally that the AHL ranks as the fourth or fifth best professional league in the world, behind the NHL, KHL, SEL, and arguably the Finnish league. That puts it concretely ahead of Switzerland.

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08-06-2012, 08:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
It's pretty interesting that Huds' one really good season in the AHL "coincided" with Val Filppula's one full season in Grand Rapids.
Especially interesting since Hudler was centering Tomas Kopecky and Donald MacLean on the Griffins' first line while Flip was the #2 pivot. Nice try, though.

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08-06-2012, 08:47 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
With Samuelsson likely playing on the point on one of the PP units, we have a pretty thin group of 6 guys to play at forward on our PP as of right now, compared to years past.

What do you think we will see as our PP units?

and what would you like to see as our units?

What I would like to see:

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen
Filppua-Zetterberg-Brunner

White-Kronwall
Samuelsson-Smith

What I think we will see:

Cleary/Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Franzen
Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner/Cleary

White-Kronwall
Samuelsson-Quincey

I'd like to see us put as much skill up front as possible. This is also assuming that the current group of forwards and defenseman are what we have at the start of the season.

I have a bad feeling Nyquist isn't going to start the season in Detroit, which sucks because I think he would help more on the PP than Bert or Cleary.
For the love of dear god if this happens i'll need to stock up on nitroglycerin pills

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08-06-2012, 08:49 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Motown Beatdown View Post
For the love of dear god if this happens i'll need to stock up on nitroglycerin pills
Better get ready

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Old
08-06-2012, 08:53 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Bertuzzi and Cleary can battle out for a spot, and Sammy likewise on the point, but they have to give Nyquist and Smith PP time. Waste of talent otherwise. Time to get some youth movement going with actions and not just words.

Z-Pavel-Mule
Kron-White

Goose-Fil-Cleary/Bert/Brunner
Smith-Sammy/Q

Something like that. I see a clear first unit being used with our current group of guys. Give the rest to Fil and the rookies to shine.
Putting a Z/Dats/Mule line out is a mistake. Z/Dats works when one can be the line's primary shooter. Mule is ONLY effective if he is the primary shooter; otherwise he's pretty mediocre to bad.

The easy fix would be replacing Mule with Bert/Cleary (the "new" Homer). But then you have a second unit that is somewhat powerless up front, which was Babcock's problem last season due to his refusal to use Hudler; he had no offensive punch from his second-unit forwards. Which means you move Zetterberg. The second unit gets Flip and Z, and the third forward can be Bert/Cleary if you follow the same formula or you can use one of Sammy, Brunner, or Nyquist if you want more offensive presence. Sammy and Brunner would bring an eager shooting winger, Nyquist would provide a third multi-talented offensive forward which might bring some similar chemistry to what we saw with Flip/Z/Huds last season. On the second unit D I'd prefer not to see Sammy but realize he's probably going to be there; I would like to see Kindl and Smith given shots and I hope Quincey can replicate previous success in total numbers while playing on a lower unit.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi/Cleary-White-Kronwall

Filppula-Zetterberg-Nyquist/Brunner/Cleary/Bertuzzi/Samuelsson-Quincey/Samuelsson/Kindl-Smith/Quincey/Kindl

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08-06-2012, 09:29 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Especially interesting since Hudler was centering Tomas Kopecky and Donald MacLean on the Griffins' first line while Flip was the #2 pivot. Nice try, though.
Well then why did he have the two mediocre seasons prior to playing with Fil? Maybe no Kopy or MacLean on his lines? That's gotta explain the lack of production.

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08-06-2012, 09:44 PM
  #34
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Pretty sure Sammy is going to have a spot locked up on the point on the PP, Babcock loves having righty-lefty pairs on the power play.

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08-06-2012, 10:32 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Well then why did he have the two mediocre seasons prior to playing with Fil? Maybe no Kopy or MacLean on his lines? That's gotta explain the lack of production.
He was only 19 and 20 in those seasons. Maybe that was a part of it.

Why don't we look at this... Filppula suddenly has a massive breakout year that maybe came because he was on a line with Z and Hudler, the team's highest scoring line. People on this board are so ready to question whether Hudler's scoring from last season was inflated by his linemates, when it wasn't even a career year for him. Flip blew away his career best on the same line, and everyone's like "Well, of course it's not inflated. We all know Flip is that good."

Think about it. Yes, Filppula's a damn good player... but if you're seriously suggesting that his presence on a lower line in the AHL caused Hudler to explode offensively, that's hilarious. You are digging deep now for reasons to hate Huds and/or discredit his performance, and that's just sad.

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Old
08-06-2012, 11:29 PM
  #36
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What i want to see:

Zetterberg- Dats- Nyquist/Franzen
Kronner- Smith

Brunner - Fil- Nyquist/Bertuzzi
Sammy- Quincey

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Old
08-07-2012, 09:33 AM
  #37
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I just want to see Datsyuk stay on the powerplay the full 2 minutes.

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08-07-2012, 09:43 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
He was only 19 and 20 in those seasons. Maybe that was a part of it.

Why don't we look at this... Filppula suddenly has a massive breakout year that maybe came because he was on a line with Z and Hudler, the team's highest scoring line. People on this board are so ready to question whether Hudler's scoring from last season was inflated by his linemates, when it wasn't even a career year for him. Flip blew away his career best on the same line, and everyone's like "Well, of course it's not inflated. We all know Flip is that good."

Think about it. Yes, Filppula's a damn good player... but if you're seriously suggesting that his presence on a lower line in the AHL caused Hudler to explode offensively, that's hilarious. You are digging deep now for reasons to hate Huds and/or discredit his performance, and that's just sad.
Who was centering that 3rd line in Detroit when Huds was having career years? The two seem to go hand in hand, we'll see how Hudler does in Calgary where they don't have many centers or playmakers.

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08-15-2012, 12:46 PM
  #39
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Pens fan coming in peace. Was curious how you guys are feeling about Kronwall. He's had some pretty awesome numbers at different times.

Looking back at 08-09 and his 45A do you guys feel like he can start doing that again, or was that more a career year for assists type situation? Seems like the total package to me but I didn't see him much last year. His G totals have been increasing which is a good sign. I assume there's no chance anyone runs the PP but him most of the year?

18G 45A possible?

I've learned better than to count Detroit out; now is the type of situation when all those stealth picks in the draft over the last few years might make their mark. Your scouts always seem to find guys past the 2nd round who turn out to be high skill players when other good players leave. No reason yet to think that will stop?

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08-15-2012, 12:51 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Pens fan coming in peace. Was curious how you guys are feeling about Kronwall. He's had some pretty awesome numbers at different times.

Looking back at 08-09 and his 45A do you guys feel like he can start doing that again, or was that more a career year for assists type situation? Seems like the total package to me but I didn't see him much last year. His G totals have been increasing which is a good sign. I assume there's no chance anyone runs the PP but him most of the year?

18G 45A possible?

I've learned better than to count Detroit out; now is the type of situation when all those stealth picks in the draft over the last few years might make their mark. Your scouts always seem to find guys past the 2nd round who turn out to be high skill players when other good players leave. No reason yet to think that will stop?
No reason other than homer fans who need the therapy of claiming doomsday.

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:02 PM
  #41
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Haha. I think Pens and Red Wing fans have a similar vibe from this summer's FA failings. A good chunk of the fan-base is about to panic, another thinks everything is great, another thinks we need one more good player to be set but if we don't we'll still be competitive. Count me in the last camp.

Also I have a lot of respect for Babcock and think he'll have his guys ready and adjusting to life without Lidstrom pretty quick. Might be some bumps / slumps in the road until you can get it all figured out but that's hockey.

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08-15-2012, 01:17 PM
  #42
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Looking back at 08-09 and his 45A do you guys feel like he can start doing that again, or was that more a career year for assists type situation? Seems like the total package to me but I didn't see him much last year. His G totals have been increasing which is a good sign. I assume there's no chance anyone runs the PP but him most of the year?

18G 45A possible?
Sure. I expect his offensive numbers to increase markedly. For the time being he's the #1 and it's time to see if he can live up to the "Nick Jr." nickname. Not the biggest Kronwall fan here though. He leaves a lot to be desired defensively IMO. But his offensive output should be awesome considering his talent as well as the minutes and opportunity he'll be expected to play.

Quote:
Also I have a lot of respect for Babcock and think he'll have his guys ready and adjusting to life without Lidstrom pretty quick. Might be some bumps / slumps in the road until you can get it all figured out but that's hockey.
Wanna trade coaches? Love Byslma.

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:28 PM
  #43
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Sure. I expect his offensive numbers to increase markedly. For the time being he's the #1 and it's time to see if he can live up to the "Nick Jr." nickname. Not the biggest Kronwall fan here though. He leaves a lot to be desired defensively IMO. But his offensive output should be awesome considering his talent as well as the minutes and opportunity he'll be expected to play.



Wanna trade coaches? Love Byslma.

Interesting comments on Kronwall.

Re: Bylsma... grass is always greener. I wager more than half our fan base would take you up on your offer, though.

"Disco" as he's called is a good coach for being so young and a very likable individual, but he's got some rough edges in the PP and gameplan departments. Babcock is a more well-rounded coach IMO. Bylsma needs to add a few tricks to his name, another offensive system he can pull out in a tough playoff series or down the stretch, to keep opponents off balance. His current system is predictable and only works because of who (should be when healthy) centering his top 2 lines, but when the depth dwindles a little because of injuries like the last 2 years things get ugly from time to time.

Will be interesting to see how he evolves.

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08-15-2012, 03:35 PM
  #44
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Bylsma needs to add a few tricks to his name, another offensive system he can pull out in a tough playoff series or down the stretch, to keep opponents off balance. His current system is predictable and only works because of who (should be when healthy) centering his top 2 lines, but when the depth dwindles a little because of injuries like the last 2 years things get ugly from time to time.

Will be interesting to see how he evolves.
I like Babcock just fine and think Blysma is a fine coach. What he needs to "fine tune" is keeping his team injury free. Not sure any coach has a handle on how to do that though. With the cap no one has depth. The last two teams to have insane depth were the Hawks when they won the Cup and Detroit when we lost to the Pens. Of course both Lidstrom and Datsyuk were injured during that playoff run.

The hard salary cap has absolutely destroyed any hopes of having a deep team that can sustain a few key injuries. That's life during the meat grinder that is the NHL playoffs.

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08-15-2012, 04:57 PM
  #45
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Interesting comments on Kronwall.

Re: Bylsma... grass is always greener. I wager more than half our fan base would take you up on your offer, though.

"Disco" as he's called is a good coach for being so young and a very likable individual, but he's got some rough edges in the PP and gameplan departments. Babcock is a more well-rounded coach IMO. Bylsma needs to add a few tricks to his name, another offensive system he can pull out in a tough playoff series or down the stretch, to keep opponents off balance. His current system is predictable and only works because of who (should be when healthy) centering his top 2 lines, but when the depth dwindles a little because of injuries like the last 2 years things get ugly from time to time.

Will be interesting to see how he evolves.
Pittsburgh fans should be pretty high on Kronwall, he gets a big matchup and plays up to that level whenever the two teams hook up. He has played arguably some of his best hockey against you guys. Part of the reason I am not scared of him as a number one a lot of his dumb pinches and things that upset people come against the Calgary and Columbus type teams. He seems much safer when he respects the level of talent he is going up against and elevates his game accordingly.

As for your Bylsma comments I agree. I think he is a very good coach but he is more out of the Tippett and Hitchcock school of thinking. He has a system and it pounds out results. They problem for him is adjusting out of that system when something is going wrong. Another thing all three guys don't do nearly enough for me is shuffle lines.

Even when lines are going full tilt, Bowman and Babcock tinker with them in games when they don't like what they see, or like a particular guys jump. I think Bylsma could do this more with Pittsburgh. I know Malkin and Neal click most nights but when it isn't happening he shouldn't be afraid to separate them for the night and see if on that particular night a different line will get results.

I think Babcock has a system but it is meaner than he can employ with what the Wings do and in a way that helps him. He has made the team harder to play against but now sees the benefit of some of the puck possession stuff that the Wings have always had. Having coached two teams and a bunch of different type teams is a benefit for him.

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Old
08-16-2012, 10:56 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Pens fan coming in peace. Was curious how you guys are feeling about Kronwall. He's had some pretty awesome numbers at different times.

Looking back at 08-09 and his 45A do you guys feel like he can start doing that again, or was that more a career year for assists type situation? Seems like the total package to me but I didn't see him much last year. His G totals have been increasing which is a good sign. I assume there's no chance anyone runs the PP but him most of the year?

18G 45A possible?

I've learned better than to count Detroit out; now is the type of situation when all those stealth picks in the draft over the last few years might make their mark. Your scouts always seem to find guys past the 2nd round who turn out to be high skill players when other good players leave. No reason yet to think that will stop?
I dont know if those numbres will be attainable or not but no matter what I'd imagine Kronwall's numbers should increase from last season simply because he has traditionally QB'd the 2nd PP unit where as this season he will be QB'ing the 1st PP Unit.

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Old
08-16-2012, 11:08 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Pens fan coming in peace. Was curious how you guys are feeling about Kronwall. He's had some pretty awesome numbers at different times.

Looking back at 08-09 and his 45A do you guys feel like he can start doing that again, or was that more a career year for assists type situation? Seems like the total package to me but I didn't see him much last year. His G totals have been increasing which is a good sign. I assume there's no chance anyone runs the PP but him most of the year?

18G 45A possible?
I think your goal totals may be a bit high, but I think your assist totals are probably spot on, I'm actually expecting him to get around 45-50 assists this year. He's going to get a ton of minutes and PP time this year.

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08-16-2012, 11:17 AM
  #48
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I'm going to guess 12G 41A for 53 points.

What I keep thinking about are minues. Nik and Stu were our biggest PK defensemen, and it allowed Lids and White to rest. So not only do we need to insert someone else in beside Kronwall but Kronwall himself will either play a ton of minutes in all three facets (ES, PP, PK) and possibly be worn out, or we may just insert someone else. I think we may be looking at a Quincey/Ericsson PK unit and a lot of Wings fans standing on the edge of ledges.

The positive I guess is that the team has prepared Kronwall for this day. Last season Nik had more shifts and time on ice than any other defender on our team. Season before that when Raf was playing dinged up Nik stepped up and played only a little less than Lidstrom. Look back far enough and you can see that even when he was young and new he was still getting pretty big minutes when he did play. Only difference now, is he'll be on the #1 PP all season and not just near the end and may not play on the #1 PK. And in the playoffs, he'll be expected to match up against the best forward on the opposing team. And I think he'll do fine.


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